|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
71.28.125.95
In Reply to: RE: Has anyone else tried this experiment? posted by 91derlust on July 10, 2017 at 01:22:29
Yes, but you could see a difference with any the different size test patches couldn't you? What is bothering me is that I hear NO difference between the amps.
The problem I am trying to solve is quite simple really. I have read in multiple articles that if amps are of good construction and are played within their limits for no distortion it will be very difficult to hear any differences between them. My own listening so far is agreeing with that. So far several people have told me why they think it is not true and why my method won't work, but no one has actually told me they have tried it for themselves and heard a difference between the amps.
Your first and second paragraphs are written as if you consider them to be gospel. Do you have a source, or is this your opinion?
Edits: 07/10/17 07/10/17 07/10/17 07/10/17 07/10/17 07/10/17Follow Ups:
Let's try again.My current take on this is that the method you used will reveal very little at best and mislead analysis and conclusions at worst. It lacks both internal and external validity. It's junk science. Your application does not even vaguely recognise the limitations of its approach.
The point of the analogy was to highlight the deficiency of switching-type tests in general - analogies are not intended to be interpreted literally.
Gospel? Are you serious? For the sake of brevity I simply did not use mitigated, self-effacing language. I am as open differences of opinion and new information as ever.
Sources? If you are really interested do some work - work it out for yourself. Start with a psychology textbook maybe? Want to know more, try a text that relates to conducting research with human subjects. Want a practical understanding, commit to a practical Zen or Vipassana practice - little exposes one's thinking more brutally. From memory, Paul Joppa cited some research that was specific to perception of audio. I began to learn about this stuff about 25 years ago when working and studying quality management (Hawthorne effects) and then just management (organisational behaviour). Health science study and clinical research protocol development and management deepened my appreciation considerably.
Take care, you are in danger being an ideology (or belief-system) looking for evidence irrespective of its quality. When that happens you will be fully prepared for the Hydrogen Audio forums.
Edit: please don't respond that the discipline and effects mentioned are not audio... and don't try to extrapolate directly - I'm just letting you know what piqued my interest regarding human behaviour under different conditions. It is what it is - take it or leave it.
91.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
Edits: 07/10/17 07/10/17
I will leave it, because it appears to me you have formed opinions from all that and decided that they are facts.
Edits: 07/11/17 07/11/17
Did you even read the post - that is a bizarre interpretation. I have explained myself as much as I intend to.
Take a break from the forum. Rest.
Take care.
91.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
I tried to get around the retoric but it wasn't easy. If you explained yourself it certainly wasn't clear to me. As for taking a break, I do not intend to leave post of the nature I have been seeing unanswered.
Edits: 07/11/17
You're mostly comparing frequency response, not actual dynamic
and timing cues--- which are music.
To each his own is obvious enough, but one must define his
objectives-- are these stated in numbers or are you trying
to hear what the musical venue ACTUALLY DID--- and CAN DO again-- in
only the best systems?
This isn't meant to argue-- but what are you trying to accomplish?
Do you want to drive the car over all kinds of real roads, or are
you constructing a virtual computer model on paper?
-Dennis-
Vinnie, I don't want to put words into 91derlust's mouth, but I think I agree with what he's saying.
Here's how I perceived it. I have build several well-engineered but very diverse amps, all safely within design centers, i.e., conservatively aimed at the most linear operating points. I recently listened to three of them in comparison as you have, and I can understand your take-away that they sound the same. In my case, one of the three had just slightly looser bass -- and it happened to be the one with the cheapest OPTs. The other two, a PP and a SE beam tube in triode mode, were sonically identical all the way to the deepest bass. I listened to treble, mid and bass, over and over, and after many recordings could not point out any differences with those two amps.
That said, one amp (the SE beam tube in triode) consistently engages me and has my toes tapping, where the other just doesn't. But the PP is my go-to amp offering hours of listenability just like the other. As 91derlust implies, there is "something" about that SE amp that physiologically affects me and draws out my inner rhythm, whereas the PP other doesn't. (FYI, I'm actually partial to PP amps.)
Some day, I'll scope them out to match power output and compare the square waves and sine waves. My guess is that I will see some difference that comparative listening isn't picking up. That may give a clue to an unheard difference that set my toes to tappin'.
Careful now, you are starting to sound like my first post and you are subject to being stoned at any moment. Your first paragraph is what I have been saying all along.
I am not sure I agree with the second paragraph or not at this point. I used to think I did. I will have to do a lot more listening to be able to answer that one now.
The part that is pissing me off is so many people saying "oh no, the amps have to sound different". The fact is they don't have to, and there is a lot of evidence around if one bothers to look that says they don't. If there is some subliminal effect at work here that makes us like one type of amp better than another might explain a lot, but then it also would open up a lot of other questions as to why it does. As a closing thought, did you play the same music on both amps? That might have something to do with it too.
PS Hope you can make that sooner rather than later on scoping them out for differences. I would be curious to hear what you find out.
Edits: 07/10/17 07/10/17 07/10/17
This is a sentence from your OP. After all you've written here, I am not now certain whether you want to insist that they DO sound the same when operated within their respective limits (an assertion) or to ask WHY they sound the same to you in your test system (a question).
Most responders are suggesting reasons WHY the two amplifiers may sound the same based on the manner in which you have set up your comparison. I don't sense any personal animus going from us to you.
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: