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I'm auditioning speakers, trying to decide if there is an obvious speaker that can replace my Maggie 3.6s .
So far:
Revel Studio 2: Not fully broken in, and not in an ideal location (brick wall behind), but sourced by top-end SimAudio. The sound had it's moments, but it was overall fatiguing. Just not my thing. The dealer is just trying out the line, and doesn't like them yet either, but is reserving judgment until full break-in, and they can put them in a good room. They won't have the Salon 2 for another month.
B&W 802 Diamond: Wonderful overall. I think I could enjoy this. A bit veiled in the midrange at low volumes (I think this is the FST surround), but opens up and shines at moderate listening levels. Not totally neutral, with male voice nice but not perfectly "real". Amazing female vocals. Soundstage sounded squashed on some CDs, but was always amazing on good recording. Even old Queen sounded awesome. Very detailed, but never bright. Driven by Bryston everything.
Audio Physic Avanti V: These were a wonderful surprise. These disappeared in the room better than the B&W. They felt perfectly balanced top-to-bottom. Orchestra and female voice were just so beautiful. There was a slight roundness to the sound that I attributed to the VTL tube amps and DAC. I prefer solid-state, so I would have to re-audition them to check, but these are very nice. I don't think the tweeter was as good as the B&W, but I think the midrange and overall driver integration was better. So, it's a toss-up with B&W, but definitely one I have to look at again.
Are there any others in the price range that I should be listening to before pulling the trigger? I will check out the Maggie 3.7s as well.
Follow Ups:
If you can get some Apogees the bigger models are awesome. The Caliper Sig is already good, but with the Duetta your jaw starts dropping. Tube amplification much preferred. Or maybe the new Hypex nCore amps would really suit them - they are getting rave reviews. Anybody tried nCore amps with Maggies? They are pretty new - big buzz on DIY Audio and they are selling out.andy
Edits: 03/12/12
I got them used local for less than 1/2 of the new price only 3 yrs old.
They will probably be my last speakers.
I have to agree with Dave Pogue; the Joseph Audio Perspective should be a serious contender on your list at about $12K. Tri-cell is the Canadian distributor and should be able to arrange an audition. I've owned JA speakers for over a decade and can't find anything in Canada that beats them near the price.
Cheers,
Graham
"Blue meters, big watts. This must be Heaven!"
Thorens TD126 Mk.III/Ortofon Super OM40, McIntosh MCD205, MDA700, C45, MC252, Joseph Audio RM33si Mk.II
I have Magnepan 3.7s and I got lucky enough to borrow a pair of eFicion F300s for a review . They're a wee bit out of your range at just under $17k, but then, that's list price. You might be able to do better.Anyway, all Star Wars references aside, if I was to upgrade, I'd be all over these as they'd actually *be* an upgrade, and a big one to boot. I had to relearn the term "dynamics" all over again.
Not knocking Maggies -- like I said, I own a pair -- but these are a whole 'nuther thing.
-------
Find me at: http://parttimeaudiophile.com
Edits: 03/04/12
You should checkout Jim Salk's work. He is a direct sales custom builder located in the Detroit area. Excellent performance, great cabinetry, top shelf components, good reviews, etc.
Jim is also a great guy. I would definitely recommend dropping him a note to ask about his speakers. Personally I believe his hearing and taste regarding the sound character/quality of speakers are close to mine as well.
Von Schweikert VR-33
Worth auditioning?
Bill
I have not heard the other speakers you have mentioned but I absolutely love the new 802 Diamonds. I previously owned the N802 for 11 years and was very pleased with the sound quality and did not expect the amount of improvement with the new 802 Diamond in terms of overall coherency of sound, smoothness of treble and the detail and solidity of the bass.
I also find these speakers do very well at low volumes in comparison to the previous version that needed some power behind them to open up.
I have listened to the 802 Diamonds and my previous N802 with a couple of different Bryston amplifiers of the new SST generation and was not happy with the sound in comparison to using the Classe Delta series. The speakers were not as smooth and sounded a bit on the bright side with the Bryston and with the Classe they were much more organic and natural sounding even at very high volume levels.
If you can try the new 802 diamonds with Classe or Ayre components and I think you will hear a dramatic improvement.
There are many HIFI publications in Europe and the US that have had nothing but great things to say about the new 802 Diamond in comparison to the previous generation diamond.
For the money I feel they are a bargain and build quality is better than most of the competitors at their price point.
Good luck in your search.
Full break-in hey?
You sound like a Verity kind of guy to me...
nt
Priya
It's difficult to see what's been suggested easily, as one has to open and read each response to do that. Those I've mentioned are a few of the ones I would consider if I had $15,000 to spend.
Edits: 02/29/12
You might consider Vienna Acoustics "Klimt". I've never heard them, but I do have their Strauss model for my mains and they sound so good that I would seriously consider replacing them with more top of the line speakers from Vienna Acoustics. I use them with Ayre Acoustics amps and have fallen in musical love.
Is it the same as 'The Kiss' which costs $15k?
Bill
in no particular order.
Summas and swarm subs would be pretty killer as would the bigger AK systems, or 7pis
Bass is supposed to sound big. 6.5" is not a woofer size.
I didn't include the Audio Kinesis Planetarium Beta system because I've never heard it but Duke always comes across as a stand up guy with good ears in these forums. If I was going to dump $15K into new speakers a trip to Preston, Idaho to hear them along with Sound Labs* and Gradients doesn't seem unreasonable.
* No disrespect implied or intended to fellow Sound Labs dealer Brian Walsh at Essential Audio as he also comes across as one of the good guys.
I can affirm that Duke is a great guy, and he is very willing to explain exactly what kind of sound you can expect from his various designs. You should definitely send him an email or give him a call if you'd like to find out more about his speakers.
I've heard these, don't own any of them:Joseph Audio Perspective
YG Carmel
Wilson Sophia 3
Gallo 5LSIn that order.
Edits: 02/29/12
In my quest for perfect sound, I've done some more work.Note to dealers: Stop letting people audition non-broken-in speakers! They sound terrible!
I have added the following to my list of auditions:
Wilson Sophia 3: Not fully broken-in. On full McIntosh electronics, including tube preamp, it sounded wrong. Too bright, and the timbre just wasn't right. I am attributing this to the break-in or the electronics.
Maggie 3.7: New out of box - no break-in. Okay, this didn't sound good. It had much the same character as my 3.6, but with constricted soundstage, dynamics, and bass. Since this is supposed to be a real improvement on the 3.6s, the no-break-in makes this audition useless.
PMC PB1: Very nice! Powered by all McIntosh electronics. The bass was awesome, and the clarity was amazing. Sometimes I found it a tad aggressive -- like there was an extra "excitement" level of distortion added. But, at other times, I found it just plain clear. Vocals that can sound bright and harsh on poor systems were just "right" and emotional, despite showing any flaw in the recording. I don't think the tweeter is as "clean" as the B&W Diamond tweeter, and I'm a sucker for clean highs. But, based on emotional impact and overall enjoyment, these speakers should be on everyone's audition list!
Revel Ultima Studio (not the v.2): 5-year-old, so broken-in. I ended up buying it! I might put in a review later. Considering that I didn't like the v.2, not-fully-broken-in, and poorly placed, I was surprised that I loved these!
There is wonderful dynamics, even at nighttime low-listening levels! While there is sometimes a hint of brightness, the sound is quite balanced top-to-bottom (and tweeter level is adjustable). I'm not sure about the bass strength. The bass seems to lose a bit of the bottom octave, but most of the time just seems to integrate with the sound. I'm not sure it was as strong as the PMC PB1 or the B&W 802 Diamond, but perhaps it's more accurate?
The biggest plus is the clarity of sound. The distortions are very low, giving an emotional window into the performance. I'm loving every album so far.
The Maggies do many things well, but I have found that dynamics=emotion for me. The Revel is just a much more emotionally involving speaker for my tastes.
I'm still on the prowl for my "perfect" speaker, but at least I'm enjoying my music now, every chance I get!
I'll be selling my Maggie 3.6s shortly.
Edits: 03/16/12
I bought mine new, and lived with these for five years. (Interestingly enough, I sold mine at the same time in their lifespan that you bought yours!)
They are, IMHO, a very good speaker all around. (To be honest they are not truly "great" in any one area either, but neither are the less than good in any one area either.) They image and soundstage very well. They have very good frequency extension, especially in the treble region. They are very detailed without being too analytical.
A very solid choice. Well done.
However, unlike you I found the bass to be quite tight and fairly well extended. (Although I would point out that I was using higher powered amps than yours - 200 wpc Lamm M2.1 hybrid monoblocks.) I did find that the Studios don't go down all the way to 20 Hz, but they do go down to around 25 Hz or so with room reinforcement. I recommend pulling them out from the wall though, to minimize the sound reflections from the rear port. (That will help with the bass sounding a bit "loose" as you suggested.)
In case you're interested, I ended up moving on from the Revel Studio speakers to the EgglestonWorks Andra II speakers a few years ago. They basically do everything the Revel Studios did, but with a higher level of refinement. (And at twice the cost, they should!)
Again, Congrats on finding a speaker that appeals to your sense of musicality so well.
:-)
I suggest you audition the PSB Synchrony One and the Paradigm Signature S8, both of which are excellent speakers at considerably less cost. See if you can really find anything better.
Ethera is a smaller Canadian company. The Ethera Vitae is an excellent standmount speaker, which is large enough to have pretty good bass response.
For more unusual products, I have heard good reports about the G. E. D. Lee Summa speakers and also the Linkwitz dipoles.
-----
"A fool and his money are soon parted." --- Thomas Tusser
Do you think the lower priced PSB or the Paradigm would be better than a 15k Thiel or a Vandersteen? Or a 15k Wilson or Vivid? I doubt it.
Bill
I didn't say that, did I? If you like two speakers equally well, and one costs $15,000/pr and the other costs $6.000/pr, you might feel inclined to get the less expensive ones.
PSB and Paradigm have great design expertise, have or use excellent test facilities, and have the ability to manufacture the speakers they design. Why should they not be able to build first class speakers for less than some other companies? The PSB Synchrony One achieved a Class A, Limited LF Extension from Stereophile. A few years ago, so did my Paradigm Signature S2 speakers. and there have improvements since then. Are you afraid of the comparisons with more expensive speakers?
-----
"A fool and his money are soon parted." --- Thomas Tusser
I would caution that only One guy gives out those rating systems - you are taking the word of ONE person who gave it a class A. Big whoop - if it was a different reviewer it may not have gotten the rating.
That said I actually do agree with your point and I agree with PATD's recommendations.
I happen to believe that one should not just set a big budget and assume it is better because it is $15k. And In regards to the PSBs - I have liked them better than a number of more expensive models. Not the case with Paradigm - but then again that's not the point - the point is that someone else COULD very much like a Paradigm over a triple the price Wilson or Vandersteen. Neither of these are exactly winners in everyone's books either - umm - nothing ever is.
It's less about the price than the design anyway.
Take Magnepan - you probably either love them or you could leave them - but if you love them, as many do, then for $1700 you could get one and like them over any boxed design by anyone at $5k or more. So it's worth the time to try them. If you don't like them - nothing lost but some time - if you do you could save a whole pile of cash.
As usual, some things you say make sense, as when you agree with me, and some things do not.
"I would caution that only One guy gives out those rating systems - you are taking the word of ONE person who gave it a class A. Big whoop - if it was a different reviewer it may not have gotten the rating."
Strictly speaking, Classes, A, B, C, D, etc. are Stereophile's ratings, so one could hardly expect to find them elsewhere. However, if you want to find other reviewers besides John Atkinson who really, really like the PSB Synchrony Series and Paradigm Signature Series, there are Doug Schneider of Soundstage, and Andrew Marshall of Audio Ideas Guide.
To me, that means those speakers might go on an audition list, which is all I've suggested. While I doubt I would go out my way to listen to a Wilson speaker, I would like to hear some of the others.
-----
"A fool and his money are soon parted." --- Thomas Tusser
I have no problem with your approach - you've culled three reviewers at three magazines - I have said that for ages when auditioning speakers that I would not go with just on opinion - unless you really know you are in tune with said individual - clearly you have with those guys. Still Wilson has had class A ratings too I believe so perhaps they're worth your time as well - even if you didn't like the plots.
Granted with the price of the Wilson's they really don't get my support since I've heard better for less money.
They're selling Paradigm here in Hong Kong - maybe I will give the new ones yet another go. PSB is also here. Granted the BC - Hong Kong connection is very large so Canadian stuff is all over the place - there are six White-Spots (Triple O's) restaurants here as well. Which is nice to see.
So great to be in Hong Kong. So many great speakers on audition.
Please travel to Kowloon by the sbmerged tunnel. I designed it in 1969.
Cheers
Bill
Maybe I am influenced by the highendedness of 15k. Perhaps the smaller Vivid or Vandy Quatro Wood or Joseph Audio Pulsar or the DeVore in Category A in S'phile may be more satisfying. Perhaps the Nola Viper may be better to the OP's ears. So what exactly does 15k mean? Not much in the quality of reproduction of music really. That number could be the upper limit of what the OP may spend.
Cheers
Bill
Hey AN,
Before you go get new speakers, have you tried the choke tweak on your 3.6s??
Also that amp seems way underpowered for the 3.6s.
Afterwards we discovered faith; it's all you need
and the attenuator resistor---in series with the choke.
Without it the ribbon was perceptually a little bit disconnected in my room (fairly live). With it, everything is in place.
Amazing how something as seemingly complicated as 'disconnected' is fixable with nothing but a modest level change.
Interesting. "Disconnected" seems very acute per my experience.
I think you have described exactly what I heard many years ago with Maggie iv's (or was there, as I seem to recall, a model iva?). I think, too, that Harry Pearson also alluded to it, perhaps in different words, re the MG 20. Odd that they have not resolved that after all this time.
Thanks,
Jeremy
I haven't heard 20.7's or 3.7's, so it could be fixed there.My experience is with 3.6's, which are, after all 13 years old in design.
Supposedly the 3.7 manual instructs the user to use the attenuator resistor during break-in period.
So it could be that it was "fixed" all along, just that users didn't believe the manual's suggestions and use the attenuator. So it is users who are getting fixed.
Edits: 02/29/12
You have to buy what you can audition - to me people are throwing a bunch of names at you - most of which seem to my ear to fall into the same general camps. Part of your issue may be that you are sticking to SS and IME there is only so much that can give you no matter how much you spend. As Soundhound's (Victoria BC) owner Terry says when we audition SS - "That's sounds good" Pause "for solid state"
I say it a lot and I'll say it again - treat the entire stereo system as a system - do not do the component buying approach by buying X amp for the speakers you own or X CD player because other people liked it - the fact is a Bryston sounds better on a PMC than on HE speakers or my Audio Note speakers. They sound downright terrible on my speakers such that they almost make Crown look good.
Incidentally - I have heard Bryston with Magnepan and a SE tube amp on Magnepan - that latter sounded much better.
I think the 1.7 sounds better than the 1.6 = less of the upper midrange lower treble ribbony sshshshshshsyness that drives me mad.
I would look at Usher - I preferred the Be 10 over the more expensive B&W's, and IMO they're much better than the Revels or JM Labs I've heard.
Still I would try various systems - Audio Note, The AN E/Spe HE is better than a 20.1 by a mile (my dealer sells both) the E is half the price. Whether you have corners or not.
Teresonic Ingenium - single driver - should make panel fans happy - it actually has bass - anywhere from $10k to $15k depending on driver choice
Acoustic Zen Crescendo - I listened less to this but what I heard was a big plus.
Silbatone Aporia single driver horn with a Manger driver.
King Sound - cheaper and sounds better than ribbon based panels if you want to stay with panels IME. Have some grunt.
ATC - winner - someone else mentioned them.
Many of these are tougher to find. Silbatone is practically impossible.
1. Peter Gunn Magnestand mods to your current 3.6s
or
2. 20.7 Maggies
Actually with your $15K budget you could get both and take your time to sell the one you least like.
I would also suggest that you consider the recommended speaker system solution on Arthur Salvatore's website: Champagne Dipole/Panel Speakers on a (Premium) Beer Budget.
You should audition the 3 and 20 series Magnepans, high end Vandersteens,
high end Harbeths, higher end electrostatics, and appropriately priced
Avalons (the Avalon Eidolon is the best box speaker I've ever heard, but
new ones are out of your price range, so you'll have to consider used
ones).
Should you have some funds left over, you should strongly consider
acoustic treatment of your listening room, which will go a lot farther
toward improving your quality of sound than any new speaker. Indeed
you may well want to do this BEFORE buying any new equipment.
MK
Since you have to audition before investing 15K, I would suggest adding Verity , Merlin, Reference 3A and DeVore speakers also to the list. What a pleasant job ahead!
Happy listening
Bill
If I was in the market for $15k speakers, then I would get some from an internet company. You can get twice the speaker as at a brick and mortar store. I wouldn’t by any speaker without hearing them though which can be a problem.
The speakers that I would recommend that are in a store are the Dynaudio C4, Vandersteen 4A and the Joseph Audio Pearl.
Good Luck,
Bob
I liked the Studio's, Revel's Performa upward do seem to like power house amps with current though. I personally am not a big fan of Sim amps. I wonder if your dealer has something else to try the Studio's on?
The Dynaudio Sapphire was stunning both in looks and sound. I thought it was a great deal at it's price point but the series was a limited run. Not sure I agree but I was told by a dealer the top of the line Focus had a similar Sapphire sound. In the given budget there are a few Dynaudio options.
The electrostat suggestion is a good one, I personally liked them better than Maggies. I haven't heard the brands suggested but what kept me from them was missing the physical aspect of dynamic drivers.
You should take your time, you don't want to be too hasty and end up on the audio marry-go-round :) Also, as you have listened to various brands they were each driven by various electronics, so if you are serious about one you need to arrange an in home audition. Not every amp and speaker will have synergy.
If its a dynamic speaker it should be one that's designed for proper time and phase like Vandersteen, Avalon Acoustics, Thiel, etc., along with higher quality construction and materials.I was lost for years listening to speakers because I never learned what a speaker should fundamentally do. I thought those speakers that had good fundamentals sounded somewhat sleepy. The highs and the lows didn't seem to compete with other speakers.
Consequently, I was buying speakers who's highs were glaring and big bass that simply didn't integrate with the other aspects of the system. I was so consistent in buying the wrong speakers that I was sure my electronics were to blame. Frigin train wreck. It wasn't until I was fortunate to get listening primer and some suggestions from someone in the industry who had a great deal more experience. Even with this little bit of knowledge I still couldn't hear the speakers until I had them at home, which is next to impossible.
So I took one of his suggestions and I'm no longer listening to my system but to the music. I know that sounds like a cliché but its true. If you're listening to a dynamic speaker you shouldn't hear the individual drivers. If its set up in the room properly you may not even hear were the speaker is.
Happy shopping
Edits: 02/27/12
If it were me, I'd buy used, and I'd check out the following speakers:
1. Avalon Eidolon Diamonds.
(Used these would push the $15K budget, but they are an incredible speaker.) They image and soundstage incredibly well. The treble response is very highly refined. They do require a bit of power to get the most bass response out of them, and still they are slightly bass shy, but just a touch. (The regular Eidolons, and their replacement the Eidolon Vision, are almost as good, and are very much in your price range - $9K & 12K respectively.)
2. Rockport Mira Grand.
(Again, used these would push the $15K budget, but again, an incredible speaker.) These too are slightly bass shy, but again, just a touch. These are very tall speakers, so the WAF might rear its ugly head, but they sound great.
3. Dynaudio Sapphire.
(FYI, I've not heard these particular speakers, but I have heard something similar, (i.e. Dynaudio Temptation), and they sounded very good. However, while the looks of the Temptation are just okay, I love the looks of the Sapphire.
My two cents worth anyway.
I think too many audiophiles overlook this achievement because it "merely" a hybrid 'stat, not being able to imagine beyond the old Martin Logan hybrids. The digital crossover allows very low crossover point of 172 Hz at steep 48 dB/octave slopes, and the coherence bet. 'stat and transmission bass is excellent, not to mention the superb 'stat sound. As a bonus, you get 94 dB sensitivity, which frees up your amplification choices.
The "Orion 3.5" by Linkwitz Labs. These are active speakers and require 10 channels of amplification (I use 3 Brystons). There are no dealers but I know there are several owners in the Toronto area who would probably be happy to invite you over for a listen. Dr. Sigfried Linkwitz is most famous for the Linkwitz-Riley crossover which is now used in many speaker design. He also designed most of the Audio Artisty speakers (Beethover, Mozart etc.) but the Orion is, in his opinion, his greatest accomplishment. The Orions have been a revelation in my system. I have provided a link to "The Official Seeking Orion Auditions Thread", from the Orion/Pluto users group, which you can use to find owners in your area.
> The "Orion 3.5" by Linkwitz Labs.
Orion 4.0. While a brilliant speaker designer Siegfried is not an exceptional furniture maker and his 3.5 cabinet design lacks the finesse that Don Naples brings to the table as an expert furniture maker with 4.0 (he really does lovely work).
You can get plans for 3.5 and build it yourself; 4.0 is available exclusively as a commercial product from Don Naples who is Wood Artistry, LLC although some of us have reverse engineered the cabinet and have projects in various states of completion.
http://www.theorionspeakers.com/
> These are active speakers and require 10 channels of amplification (I use 3 Brystons).
Six with bass drivers wired in parallel. Eight if you opt for an amplifier channel per woofer which should be unnecessary (where the bass drivers have low impedance they're pushing 95dB/2.83V/1 meter so don't take much power and by the time lots of equalization is being applied they're around their resonant peak where impedance is 10s of Ohms with a 0 degree phase angle). Ten are less necessary and would require skipping the single cable Speakon setup that keeps the speaker rear so much more presentable (I switched from four speaker cables after getting married).
> There are no dealers but I know there are several owners in the Toronto area who would probably be happy to invite you over for a listen.
It's purely a made-to-order product - you get your choice of solid hardwoods for side panels and front baffles plus choice of finish or (potentially shop made from the same logs as the rest of the speaker) veneer on the woofer baffles. Gabon ebony trim strips are an option and do a nice job setting off the baffle.
The fully active Beethoven Elite had to sell for $37,500 in 1998 (when the $25K passive version was Stereophile loudspeaker of the year) to cover the dealer markup but wasn't enough for Audio Artistry to make a profit.
> The Orions have been a revelation in my system. I have provided a link to "The Official Seeking Orion Auditions Thread", from the Orion/Pluto users group, which you can use to find owners in your area.
I rather like mine too.
Don't dare do anything until you've heard 20.7's.
If I has $14,980 a pair of CH Audio Sculptors cost I'd be jumping on these!
They're made in Miami Fla I've also provided a link for you below.
I'm listening to:
I think Hesson11 has it right! Get to Jacksonville Florida on March 9-11 and attend Axpona 2012. If you get a chance to drive, some of these guys will have heavy discounts.
Out of production now, but can be found used for $6,000 USD; or call the factory in Kitchener, Ontario, and ask them to make you a pair. I know of at least one person in Toronto for whom Tannoy made a pair.
If I win the lottery, then I'll buy a pair of Tannoy Kingdom Royals. In the meantime, the 215 DMT II is the poor man's Kingdom Royal, and they are SET friendly.
and enjoy dipoles, you can step up to a Sound Lab full range electrostat for that budget. They would complement your preference to acoustical music.
if used is an option some real steals can be had for 15K, seen close to new U1 PXs for something close to that, a few years back
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
I'd check also the Dynaudio line. I've had lots and lots of different brands and I'd have to say my overall favorite is Dynaudio. I think they may be close to the same tone vibe as the maggies with a punchier bass. I only had the Maggie 3.6 for a month or so and my friend had the 1.6 but I heard both of them the same way, mellow in a good way. I think the dynaudios are the same but they are more pinpoint like maybe sharper images. I like revel too I think it comes down to having the right amp with the right speakers and the right speakers for your room.
Out of those you listed I absolutely hated B&W, did like to some extent Revel Salon 2 and somewhat less Revel Studio 2 (I assume your “fatigue” comes from ringing coloration), and preferred Audio Physic Avanti.
Considering that you prefer solid state amplification, if you want more of what Audio Physic offers and less of what B&W does, look into large PMCs (used IB2s can be had for less than what you are willing to spend) or large ATCs, in case of ATCs try to check active ones, that would be the ultimate in coherence and driver integration, with far superior dynamic capabilities than what your Maggies or mentioned candidates are capable of.
The "invisible speaker" in Wilson's lineup is the standmounted 2-way Duette; as a soon-to-be former Magneplanar owner, you might be happy with the coherence that comes from a simpler crossover compared to a 3-way; the problem is, most Wilson dealers do not have it on display, in that it is mostly used in custom cabinetry in installation jobs.
If you wait until mid-April, there will be lots of speakers on display at the Waldorf Astoria Hi-Fi Show, April 13-15.
JM
I know you rate the Vivid very highly and am surprised that you would put the Duette in the same category.
I am interested in buying a very versatile speaker that can function reasonably well in small rooms. The Duette was always on my list, but it is one of the speakers in Wilson's line that you seldom hear about.
I'd really consider allocating a bit of my speaker-buying budget to a trip to Florida for the Axpona show in Jacksonville, March 9 - 11. There will be plenty of speakers on display, and although a show environment is not always best for auditioning, you'd at least have exposure to lots of possibilities.
Sorry I can't offer specific recommendations, but my speaker budget is far south of 15K!
-Bpb
Also consider attending the Salon Son & Image in Montreal from March 23 to 25. I think that it's a bigger show than Axpona in Jacksonville, and everything on display is readily available in Canada. Don't be fooled by the name. Most of the vendors will be showing two channel audio systems, rather than home theater.
My short list would include:
Green Mountain Audio Calypso HD - I haven't heard the Calypso but I have heard four other GMA speakers and thought all of them were very fine.
Vivid B1 - Based solely on reviews
Wilson Sophia 3 - I haven't heard the 3 but I liked the 2 and the original
I liked the earlier version Revel Studio (haven't heard the 2) fairly well but not enough price considered.
I haven't heard the D series but I have not liked prior generations of the B&W 800 series, coherence/driver blending being just one of multiple issues.
I'm not remotely current on Audio Physic models. I think if I liked the Avanti V I'd feel obliged to also listen to the equivalent Joachim Gerard Sonics speaker system. He was the original Audio Physics designer.
GMA would be at the top of my list too. I haven't heard the Calypso, but would sure like to.However, the OP could buy that pair of C3s on Agon for 4K and have plenty left over for the rest of the system....
Oz
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
Edits: 02/27/12
I VASTLY prefer both the Magneplaner 1.7 and 3.7 to any of the other speakers you think are a step up.
Or - you could tweak the 3.6R's with new and much better sounding crossovers, add Mye Stands, along with a good sub (REL - JL Audio etc)and that system would IMO sound as good as if not superior than most 15K speakers for right around $7000.
> Or - you could tweak the 3.6R's with new and much better sounding crossovers, add Mye Stands, along with a good sub (REL - JL Audio etc)and that system would IMO sound as good as if not superior than most 15K speakers for right around $7000.
I already did the Mye stands -- a huge upgrade. I have tried a sub, and yes that would get me part of the way to audio nirvana. I don't know what crossovers would do, but I have a feeling that the midrange panel itself is part of the issue. I have to wonder, how does it dissipate it's energy? I think my fatigue might be a stored energy issue with respect to transients. I think the 3.7s have a totally redesigned midrange, which may solve some of these issues.
I believe it is a matter of the crossover between the mids and the tweeter and the problem of the crossover demanding too much power from the amp, and parts quality in the XO. Other than that, it is missing bass power from subs, as many have discovered, they crank up the volume in order to get enough bass power to satisfy their need for a physical connection to the music.
The speaker does way better with biamping by removing power requirements from the mid/tweeter amp, and adding drive power to the hungry bass section. The direct coupling of the amp to the bass driver in an active biamping setup also increases damping and adds extension and power. Yopu can use a class D amp on it without suffering from the HF roughness some of them have.
Either of the directions - dual subs or biamping will remove most of your problems with the 3.6, the proliferation of subs for HT has made it more cost effective to use dual powered subs. Upgrading parts in the passive XO gives you even more of a benefit in addressing the fatigue induced from a rough lower treble due mostly to the caps used in the XO. You can also use the upgrade to adjust the FR more to your liking.
I would add to some of the suggestions here the Sonus Faber Cremona M (would still need a sub) and the Magico V3 (also needs a sub) and Vandersteen Quattro or the model 5, and these are definitely not needing supplemint to bass. The Focal Electra is nice too, and has nearly as much bass as the bigger Vandersteens, does not do the smoothest mids.
That said, a maggie 3.6 modified with biamping and/or dual subs does as well as these, and with a parts upgrade on the XO they do better.
...I'd be listening to the Thiel 3.7, Wilson Sophia and whatever Vandersteen model is at that price point.
I suspect I'd pick the Thiel.
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