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I've heard comments on B&Ws by many. Some like them, some don't. I've also heard some say the Matrix 800 series sounds better then the Nautilus line that followed. I never understood why. Im looking at getting a pair of 805 speakers. I asked someone I know that has good taste in Hifi, and he said this:
"From the other parts you mention, the Nelson Pass is higher rated in my understanding than any B&W speaker.
B&W suffers a bit from what also is typical for e.g. Ortofon and B&O as being a bit "mushy" in particular in the bottom of the bandwidth.
They are not so very precise in the rest of the bandwidth either, leaving the listener to use guessing more what and where the instruments are."
I asked him to confirm if this includes the 800 series, so I will get a response on that. I've never heard anyone say the 800s have flabby bass, especially the ones from the last 10 years. Any comments on the above and B&W in general? Also why do some like the Matrix series over the later ones?
Follow Ups:
I have a pair of 805s that I put in their boxes after I bought a pair of 801 Matrix series 2. The 805s did seem a little smoother, and maybe more detailed,but they should, being at least 15 years newer. But I like the sound of the 801 S2s more, seemed more even across the frequency range, but I bought them because they had deeper bass, which I wanted. These are (were)powered through the same Mac integrated. I never did hook up the 805s to my Levinson Monos though, that should sound sweet.
Dave
The new PM1's outclass the 805's...The Absolute Sound is going to do a review soon and they already mentioned their superiority to the 805's:O) I bought a pair after a demo and found them to be even more glorious in my home!
dave_b
Really? A BW dealer here sent their PM1s back since no one wanted them and the dealer thought they sounded terrible.
Really? Which dealer was that? What was he driving them with? Did you read the What HiFi review and the Absolute Sound Best of 2012 mention? Maybe your dealer is incompetent, a terrible salesman or perhaps he listens to primarily rap music? Just a thought:O)
dave_b
No the dealer is the most well known B&W seller in the west coast of Canada. They couldn't sell this speaker. And if a dealer thinks it sound bad, then it can't be great. This dealer sells Rotel, Classe, McIntosh, Naim, and others. Im glad they were honest about it. Because of that, I went back to Paradigm speakers.
FYI
B&W PM1
£2000
5
.
.
Best standmounter £1500+, Awards 2011. Arguably the most engaging and entertaining speakers B&W has made in years
Write your own review.Review
Your Opinion
Tech Specs
.
For
Fast, cohesive and surprisingly full sound; exceptional stereo image; superb integration and timing; top class build and finish
Against
Their size brings certain constraints
Some folk might find the idea
of spending £2000 on a speaker barely bigger than a decently
sized shoebox a bit odd. Not us…
There’s no getting away from the fact that any speaker that stands just 33cm high and sports a single 13cm mid/bass driver is never going to match the bass depth, authority and outright volume
of the big boys at this price level.
But it seems nobody reminded B&W’s engineers of that. While the PM1s don’t quite manage to slip through a physics loophole, B&W’s boffins have managed to eke out a surprisingly bombastic sound from tiny 6.5-litre boxes.
In small- to medium-sized rooms, these standmounters deliver impressive bass power and weight for their size. That little Kevlar mid/bass driver, along with the company’s now-traditional dimpled reflex port, produces low frequencies with plenty of gusto. Sure, bigger rivals go even deeper, but the B&Ws never sound undernourished
or bass-light. That’s a massive achievement in something so small.
Big volume from small cabinets
They’ll go loud enough for most people, too. Play In the Hall of the Mountain King from the Social Network OST and these standmounters throw out a huge sound, with waves of strong dynamics and plenty of bass. Push them really hard and things get a little confused, but by that time the speakers are playing way louder than we’d consider comfortable.
Move past the areas where all small speakers struggle and the PM1s set sky-high standards. They sound immensely fast, delivering transients with the kind of cohesion you usually only get with single-driver designs.
B&W has put a great deal of work
into the PM1s’ crossover network,
and it shows in the speakers’ seamless integration. The electronics are simple, with just three components in the circuit. Such a design is always hard
to get right, despite the use of top quality parts – the PM1 uses a similar grade to those found on the company’s range-topping 800 series speakers
– but B&W has nailed it here.
The two-driver arrangement looks a lot like standard B&W fare, but there’s been a lot of refinement going on. The 25mm aluminium dome tweeter, for example, is reinforced with a carbon ring to improve its frequency range
and distortion performance (see What
makes it special?, p76). The dome sits
in the usual decoupled tweeter pod,
and a rear-mounted tapered tube absorbs any stray sound waves.
The 13cm woven Kevlar cone now features an anti-resonance plug at its centre. This plug is made from polymer foam and, as the name implies, cleans up the cone’s response with the aim of producing a more transparent sound.
Brace, brace, brace
Of course, neither driver can work well
if the cabinet isn’t doing a good job.
The PM1’s cabinet is surprisingly heavily braced (see How does it work?, left) for one so small, giving a rigid foundation for the mid/bass driver to work from. The curved front moulding looks like a one-piece affair, but is in fact made in two parts and finished to look seamless. It’s shaped to have minimal influence on the sound, and it doesn’t hurt if the final result looks as stylish and distinctive as this.
All this careful engineering produces a wonderfully clean sound, one that picks up subtle detail and manages to keep it audible no matter how complex a piece of music gets. The PM1’s insight into recordings is absolutely top class, with the speakers leaving no stone unturned when it comes to digging
up low-level information.
These B&Ws, like many small speakers, can also deliver impressive stereo imaging. Listen to Tchaikovsky’s 1812 Overture and the PM1s excel with instrument placement and focus, and
a beautifully layered and impressively expansive sound stage. Perhaps most impressive of all is their ability to disappear within the presentation. Close your eyes and it’s nigh-on impossible
to locate the boxes without looking.
Transparent presentation
That’s not where the good news ends. These standmounters time very well, and can convey rhythms excellently. Play the likes of Kanye West’s Monster and the PM1s charge along at full throttle when the music demands.
They communicate the sense of drive, aggression and excitement in this kind of music terrifically well and, provided the rest of your system is good enough, these speakers can’t help but shine.
As far as kit-matching is concerned, the B&W PM1s will sound perfectly
good with the likes of Roksan’s Award-
winning £1595 Caspian M2 integrated amplifier (Awards 2010, ★★★★★).
But, such is their transparency that
their sound continues to improve significantly as the partnering electronics increase beyond that level.
You’ll need the dedicated stands, though. These £400 supports were used during the PM1s’ development, and it shows: no other stands we tried (and
we have a more than a few on site) gave the same sense of control and balance. The aesthetics match too, which is nice.
Put it altogether and you have a hugely capable pair of small stand-mounters that work well with all types of music and engage the listener better then just about any B&W speaker we’ve heard in years. Sometimes great things really do come in small packages.
Some folk might find the idea of spending £2000 on a speaker barely bigger than a decently sized shoebox a bit odd.
Not us…There’s no getting away from the fact that any speaker that stands just 33cm high and sports a single 13cm mid/bass driver is never going to match the bass depth, authority and outright volume of the big boys at this price level.
But it seems nobody reminded B&W’s engineers of that.
While the PM1s don’t quite manage to slip through a physics loophole, B&W’s boffins have managed to eke out a surprisingly bombastic sound from tiny 6.5-litre boxes.
In small- to medium-sized rooms, these standmounters deliver impressive bass power and weight for their size.
That little Kevlar mid/bass driver, along with the company’s now-traditional dimpled reflex port, produces low frequencies with plenty of gusto.
Sure, bigger rivals go even deeper, but the B&Ws never sound undernourished or bass-light. That’s a massive achievement in something so small.
Big volume from small cabinets
They’ll go loud enough for most people, too. Play In the Hall of the Mountain King from the Social Network OST and these standmounters throw out a huge sound, with waves of strong dynamics and plenty of bass.
Push them really hard and things get a little confused, but by that time the speakers are playing way louder than we’d consider comfortable.
Move past the areas where all small speakers struggle and the PM1s set sky-high standards. They sound immensely fast, delivering transients with the kind of cohesion you usually only get with single-driver designs.
Clever crossover network
B&W has put a great deal of work into the PM1s’ crossover network, and it shows in the speakers’ seamless integration. The electronics are simple, with just three components in the circuit.
Such a design is always hard to get right, despite the use of top quality parts – the PM1 uses a similar grade to those found on the company’s range-topping 800 series speakers – but B&W has nailed it here.
The two-driver arrangement looks a lot like standard B&W fare, but there’s been a lot of refinement going on. The 25mm aluminium dome tweeter, for example, is reinforced with a carbon ring to improve its frequency range and distortion performance.
The dome sits in the usual decoupled tweeter pod, and a rear-mounted tapered tube absorbs any stray sound waves (see below).
The 13cm woven Kevlar cone now features an anti-resonance plug at its centre.
This plug is made from polymer foam and, as the name implies, cleans up the cone’s response with the aim of producing a more transparent sound.
Brace, brace, brace
Of course, neither driver can work well if the cabinet isn’t doing a good job.
The PM1’s cabinet is surprisingly heavily braced for one so small, giving a rigid foundation for the mid/bass driver to work from.
The curved front moulding looks like a one-piece affair, but is in fact made in two parts and finished to look seamless.
It’s shaped to have minimal influence on the sound, and it doesn’t hurt if the final result looks as stylish and distinctive as this.
All this careful engineering produces a wonderfully clean sound, one that picks up subtle detail and manages to keep it audible no matter how complex a piece of music gets.
The PM1’s insight into recordings is absolutely top class, with the speakers leaving no stone unturned when it comes to digging up low-level information.
These B&Ws, like many small speakers, can also deliver impressive stereo imaging. Listen to Tchaikovsky’s 1812 Overture and the PM1s excel with instrument placement and focus, and a beautifully layered and impressively expansive sound stage.
Perhaps most impressive of all is their ability to disappear within the presentation. Close your eyes and it’s nigh-on impossible to locate the boxes without looking.
Transparent presentation
That’s not where the good news ends. These standmounters time very well, and can convey rhythms excellently. Play the likes of Kanye West’s Monster and the PM1s charge along at full throttle when the music demands.
They communicate the sense of drive, aggression and excitement in this kind of music terrifically well and, provided the rest of your system is good enough, these speakers can’t help but shine.
As far as kit-matching is concerned, the B&W PM1s will sound perfectly good with the likes of Roksan’s Award-winning £1595 Caspian M2 integrated amplifier.
But, such is their transparency that their sound continues to improve significantly as the partnering electronics increase beyond that level.
You’ll need the dedicated stands, though. These £400 supports were used during the PM1s’ development, and it shows: no other stands we tried (and we have a more than a few on site) gave the same sense of control and balance.
The aesthetics match too, which is nice.
Put it altogether and you have a hugely capable pair of small stand-mounters that work well with all types of music and engage the listener better then just about any B&W speaker we’ve heard in years.
Sometimes great things really do come in small packages.
dave_b
I can't afford the PM1 anyway. Its $1000 more then Im willing to spend vs the S2 I'm getting. That said I also read someone auditioned the PM1 and said it sounded terrible on the amp that was driving it. Apparently these speakers are picky on what power amp is used. They need power- lots of it. I'd love to stay with B&W, but their speakers have basically priced themselves right out of the market with their higher end speakers. The PM1 is about the same price as a S2, but with the S2- I can find them used. Where as the PM1 has only been out less then a year and no one would be selling a used pair yet- especially at the price Im paying for my S2 speakers.
Understood:O) The S2's aren't too shabby and they are efficient, however, most speakers respond better with lot's of good clean power.
dave_b
Wow, I geuss What HiFi and The Absolute Sound are morons then, not to mention the opinion of an audiophile who's owned more gear then your dealer has most likely ever dreamed of....enjoy:O)
dave_b
I have the matrix 802 series 2 and Im happy with them.
I'll leave it to you to find the review if you care to do so, but he said something along the lines that the 801 Matrix was pretty much faultless.
I wouldn't say it is/was perfect, but it was/is still a pretty amazing performer & certainly won't be "leaving the listener to use guessing more what and where the instruments are."
Here, here! One mans spice is another mans poison. Of course some "Audiophiles" are just morons:O)
dave_b
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