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Yes, no, maybe? If you did this, how did it impact the sound? Thanks.
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Funny, when Noel lent me a pair to compare with JMR Magic Stands, he said to fill them with kitty litter!
Skylans, Magic Stands, and steel stands (Audio Note, Sound Anchor ) - the latter filled with lead shot and masonry sand, all sound different from one another. With Reynauds, the Skylans have punchier bass in the 90-100 Hz range, Magic Stands have clearer but less punchy bass and a smoother midrange, and AN stands have stronger fundamental bass but a less smooth midrange.
Magic Stands are solid MDF, so no filling. Lead and sand make a huge difference with the steel stands, reducing their resonance from a 'bong' to a 'tuck.' I never tried anything but kitty litter in the Skylans.
Bob Neil is both a manufacturer and retailer for Magic Stands and I do not care one fig what he says about them or about Skylan stands.
I know for a fact that Noel reads this forum. But you don't see him posting here. He's a manufacturer and let's his products stand for themselves. And he has a lot of class and good judgment.
And that is something that cannot be said of Bob Neil. He is, in various capacities, a manufacturer (Magic stands), importer (Renaud) and retailer (various over-priced products). His comments he are always geared towards pushing his products and making a buck and it is an abuse of this forum.
"Lock up when you're done and don't touch the piano."
-Greg House
Many manufacturers post here and I appreciate what they have to offer. In my opinion Bob Neill does not push the products he sells and he brings a tremendous amount of knowledge to the forums so I for one hope he continues to post. I miss his equipment reviews and felt he was one of the best reviewers in audio.
Bob Neill is a hobbyist first and dealer/manufacturer/whatever second. He's on the same audio journey that we are all on and likes to talk/write about it. I appreciate and enjoy it. If I don't like what someone says I just tune them out. Personal attacks are not informative nor productive.
This is not the manufacturers forum.
This is not the importers forum.
This is not the retailers forum.
Saying someone is all three when they are is not a personal attack.
"Lock up when you're done and don't touch the piano."
-Greg House
Beside every poster's name is a letter. That letter, R for reviewer, M for manufacturer and D for Dealer tells everyone who is replying to a thread. This is in fact a forum for all and the reason for the letter is to let you know what advice is coming from what background.
Hell, Duke, whom we would be loath to be without, proudly proclaims he's two out of three:
"Me being a dealer makes you leery?? It gets worse... I'm a manufacturer too."
I think two out of three is a good score for AA, don't you?.
I understand why Dealers and Manufacturers are looked at sideways. Many audio dealers I have dealt with were like used car salesman and basically dumped on everything they didn't sell and raved about what they did sell. Then the minute they stopped selling a brand they'd rip it.
Unfortunately, many dealers are like that - they're in the business to move boxes at the highest profit they can get. And I get the sense these are by far the majority of such outlets.
However, The guys at Soundhounds while salesman and there is that element there is very CLEARLY a love a of music and a love of great audio reproduction at the core. This is why they have survived 35 years while most have not. When you see thousands of vinyls and thousands of CDs covering the walls and the owner spending about a grand a month on music it's about the music.
Dealers like Terry spend everyday day in and day out with the gear. I would take his "review" of gear over ANY magazine reviewer. Terry has both the years, has carried virtually every major high end brand, has been to tons of audio shows. When he is sitting there with a Voyd Reference turntable you can be sure he has owned tried or sold EVERY turntable in that price range that has been built. That doesn't mean I will agree with him on everything but I have found that in the vast majority of cases I have been in sync.
Most of us reviewers have jobs not related to audio. There is only so much time I can alot to this and while I love it and think I have pretty good ears for it. Guys like Terry, and I sense yourself, with his experience has both the depth and the breadth covering more than 2 decades (maybe 4). Of course I probably need to be 60 to be able to afford those pieces. But I pretty much built my AN system with University Student loans. I said no to a car and took the bus. I took the books out of the library rather than buy them (unless they were good).
Good dealers like Terry tell it like it is. Some stuff he carries that he loves but he admits just doesn't sell. But he carries it because he likes it. Other stuff sells great but he doesn't love. But he believes that the customer should decide and so you carry a wide array of differing gear to cater to your customers. But if you ask him, he'll tell you what he likes and what he thinks is a big pile of junk whether he sells it or not. And he'll let people listen and compare it for themselves. A Dealer has a unique perspective and a good one can be the most important upgrade you can make in an audio system.
You said a hellova lot more than that, big mouth. And the fact is that retailers, manufacturers, and importers contribute to this forum on a regular basis. If that was all you said, you would have been merely saying you don't like us here, which is an opinion to which you are entitled. But you had a lot of other crap to spew, which was indeed a personal attack.
Saying I don't care about your opinion is a personal attack? No, it's just the truth.
Saying you consistently put subtle posts in this forum to promote your business is a personal attack? No, it's just the truth.
Saying you have no class is a personal attack? Using a forum to promote your business without disclosing what your business is shows you have no class.
The jig is up, Bob. People don't like the inherent dishonesty you've demonstrated here.
"Lock up when you're done and don't touch the piano."
-Greg House
I see you have changed your name to "People," very clever.Time to let you stew in your juices, friend, but I will remind you that the "D" associated with my name whenever I post means Dealer and names my business. According to the moderators and most other rational people, that is "disclosure." If you go to my website, you will see all that I sell. I would say my disclosure is near absolute. If failing to disclose what my business is is the basis of your personal attack on my honesty and 'class,' you have a good deal more work to do. But do it on your own time. You and your kind bring a whole new concept of 'class' to AA it can probably do without.
Edits: 06/16/10
Do you disagree with my report? Do you find it not objective? If you feel I am incapable of objectivity, disregard what I say. Some people prefer the punchiness of Skylans. Some people prefer the authority of steel stands. And some prefer Magic Stands. So it goes. None of them make everybody happy.
Objective about what? I read your post above and had no idea that the "magic stands" were your product. Have you ever seen a post by a real manufacturer of any repute commenting on the sound of his product in comparison to others? Objective? Have you measured the frequency response of speakers mounted on your stands compared to the response on other stands?
Speaker manufacturers are welcome here for their answers to specific technical questions, not for their opinions about the benefits of their products compared to others. Speaker stand manufacturers? I can't imagine why the forum should accept their "contributions" at all.
________
"Occasionally we list eccentrically, all sense of balance gone."
Well most folks here know that Magic Stands are a JMR product. Reynaud stopped building them years ago because he couldn't make a profit on them, and sent me the plans at my request. I have them built by a local cabinet maker here, I don't make a profit on them either, but I do it because there appears to be a continuing demand for them and they do work well with Reynauds. If I were a serious business, as JMR is, I couldn't/wouldn't do it. But as you'd be the first to say, I'm not serious.
"Objective" in this context means I described the differences I heard among three kinds of stands without prejudice. I actually contacted Noel a few years back in the hope that his stands would sound better with Reynauds than Magic Stands, so I could get out of making them. I did a comparison here at my house, took them to a show and let others hear the comparison there. As I say, some folks preferred the Skylans, some the MS, for the reasons I reported. And because I prefer the MS's, I am still stuck with making them. At one time, I had a note on my website mentioning that Skylans worked well with Reynauds for folks who wanted a punchy bass. Maybe I should put it back, forgot it wasn't still there. I also mention Symposium Sveltes there, which I don't sell, and Mapleshade Samson racks. As I say, I'm not a serious business.
You know, there was no reason to say anything more than kitty litter in my first post. I keep forgetting that going on and talking here the way I do to people elsewhere, when I am perceived as having an 'interest,' is just asking for trouble. So I apologize. Bad habits still around since my earlier days as a civilian and reviewer.
Bob, I've followed your posts for years. I find them to be very informative, and I've never considered any of them to be hidden sales pitches or guerilla marketing.
I hope you don't reduce your contributions in the forums.
There is a rule in politics and elsewhere about avoiding even the appearance of a conflict (confluence!) of interest. I have never been very good about that rule. Any rules actually. I jaywalk, double-park, all that. Some folks love rules, and those are the folks those of us who aren't good about rules run into now and again.
In this case, my instincts were to be informative but truth is, that thread wasn't about comparing stands, it was about what to fill Noel's stands with. So I can understand why some of the rules guys may have been put off. Thanks for the kudo, but I really should try harder to use the crosswalk a little more and wait for real parking places.
Actually, we did this comparison at an audio show a couple of years ago. A reviewer preferred the Skylans, as Noel will likely remember. But we all essentially agreed on what it was we heard, which was what I reported. The reviewer's initial impression was that the MS's made the bass a little light. We may not have done the steel stands, now that I think of it. I've done that one here. Sometimes I prefer the MS's, sometimes the metal stands. If you want to disagree with what I say on principle, that's fine. You have some colleagues out there who share your view about my daring to comment. From what you say further on down the thread, you are likely more of a fan of Skylans than I am of any stands. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
You know what ringing sounds like and you know what bad dynamics and veiled treble sound like. Stands can both add to and detract from either/both of the above. But how?
More than once, i have seen (read about) two people with the exact same speaker (LS3/5A) who have had dramatically different results with the same two radically different speaker stands (one, a high density 4-pillar stand, once made by Target Hi-Fi in the UK, one a thin metal frame stand, once made by Linn).
An element of science + the human element = ????
"What did the Romans ever do for us?"
With what is up for debate. Wonder what my dog would think about kitty litter...
don't fill them all the way up.
________
"Occasionally we list eccentrically, all sense of balance gone."
I used Silica sand in my Skylan stands. They took the better part of 50 lbs too. I can't imagine these things falling apart. Pretty solid.
But the sand made a ton of difference.
Are you asking about the benefit of filling them with something, or of filling them with sand as opposed to something else?I don't have anything against sand, except for dealing with it. I've been using kitty litter for 20 years, and was gratified when I saw that Noel was recommending it for his stands. You could email him and ask him why. I don't recommend calling him unless you have unlimited long distance minutes on your calling plan.
Anyway, filled with kitty litter (store brand, unscented), the Skylan stands are terrific. Big improvement in bass definition, clarity, soundstaging, depth and imaging. It's like the speakers are suspended in air, but are absolutely stable. Terrific jump factor (which I noticed when my dog jumped).
________
"Occasionally we list eccentrically, all sense of balance gone."
Edits: 06/09/10
I had Skylan stands once. I filled them with sand. I didn't like the sound. Very muddy. I removed half the sand and my speakers sounded much better. You have to be very carefull when moving sand filled Skyan stands though, thats what was the death of mine. They fell apart when moving them...
Ps my speakers were Spendor LS3/5's
Your Skylan stands 'FELL APART'? What, did you throw them into the back of a truck and they fell off and hit the pavement?
I've owned half a dozen pair of Skylans in the past ten years (I'm a big 'monitor' guy) and I have NEVER had seen a Skylan product that would 'FALL APART'.
"Lock up when you're done and don't touch the piano."
-Greg House
Hi!
I suppose it depends on the speaker, but generally for me it will deaden the sound, which I don't like. Even Noel went from sand to kitty litter, even to rice. I've been using some poly pellets with great results. Sand is cheap, but so is bad sound.
They made my Dali Euphonia RS3s sound like they were covered in mud without sand. Top 'em off!
I'd put the sand in too. I think I know why you asked though. You might be wondering how it would effect the tone. I know I would. As I'm sure you know, everything rings at a certain frequency.
With the Skylan stands I would wonder if I'm getting any sympathetic bass or fullness from them unfilled but I'm sure your not in fact I bet with them unfilled you are leaning the bass and fullness a bit. As mbnx01 stated it will make everything better. I'll add that it will give you better resolution and sound staging also. So I say, FILL THEM.:-)
Cheers,
Scott
It makes a tremendous difference. Better bass, more dynamics, more detail, better imaging.
You don't need to fill them to the top. 2/3'rds or so is fine. Just buy a bag of sterilized 'playground' sand at Home Depot for five bucks or so.
"Lock up when you're done and don't touch the piano."
-Greg House
Funny, I still think sand robs the speakers of everything that mbnx just posted. Each to his own, I suppose...
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