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Model: | Cornwall |
Category: | Speakers |
Suggested Retail Price: | $1800 |
Description: | Three-way Speaker |
Manufacturer URL: | Klipsch |
Review by Kristian on April 27, 2010 at 10:14:55 IP Address: 69.221.204.234 | Add Your Review for the Cornwall |
This is an impression of Klipsch Cornwall IIIs.
I have played around with Hi-Fi for more than 30 years, and worked at a high-end dealer many years ago where we used to sell Klipsch. I've owned ribbon planars, dynamics of all types, and ATC actives, and heard many other things in between, so I have a keen sense of what's up and down.
I decided to hear these classic American speakers due to a stellar write-up/measurement test by an engineer nd at Stereoplay at the links below. Some of my favorite loudspeakers are/have been: Active ATCs, KEF Reference 105/3, Reference 2 and 3, Reference 3As of all sorts, Spendor SP1/2, SP100, Magnepan 20.1, Quad 2805, B&W 802D.
Cornwalls are an American audio icon. The originals were designed in 1959 and the latest version are easily comparable to the above speakers. They're 3-way, with horn loaded mid & tweeter and a direct radiating 15" driver. A big, old, out of style, anti-audiophile, but very fine loudspeaker. Luckily, a local dealer displays all Klipsch Heritage products. I listened to all of them last Saturday.
It's important to recall audiophiles' typically disdainful opinion of Klipsch Heritage speakers--something one would never be seen listening to, and particularly not own as that would impugn "audiophile" credibility. They obviously aren't any good as everyone knows without having heard them. I was in that camp, too. I'm not really an audiophile as I don't "believe" in pebbles, clocks, expensive cables, and other such stuff (been around too long).
The speakers were lined up in the delightful little mess of an audio store that is Simply Stereo of Hoffman Estates, Illinois. They are built beautifully, were set up suboptimally and run off fine electronics, Cambridge 840 Azur separates, through a couple of miles of regular wires, cheap patch cords, and an '80s speaker switcher.
The first notes from Monk's "Bemsha Swing" rang out, and the room filled with pin-sharp, fast, immediate, tonally natural, pure, slightly midrange oriented sound. You could *clearly* hear each of Monk's hits on the keys with impact, emphasizing that the piano is a persussive instrument. I was gobsmacked. For me, it was like a car enthusiast rediscovering the pleasures of pure, tactile driving when trying a 1973 Porsche 911 2.7RS after driving modern, hyper-fast and sticky sports cars that do everything perfectly. Sure, the old 911 won't stick as hard around corners; sure it's not as fast; no cupholders or airbags; sure it's not as economical; but it gives you a more tactile, seat-of-the-pants driving experience, with better smells, sound, feel, and fun than a modern 911, and you don't have to go nearly as fast to have maximal fun. Like Hi-Fi, modern cars are so focused on N-th degree performance that they often leave out the tactile experience of driving; modern Hi-Fi is so focused on the highest highs and lowest bass (where only about 20% of the music is) that whether the end result sounds like music is forgotten.
The bass was lightning fast, with smooth, extended but sweet highs, and the absence of any horn coloration or the slightest cupped sound. I did find that to exist in both the La Scala IIs and Klipschorns, the Cornwalls being smoother and better integrated, with none of the mid-bassy honk or time delay caused by horn-loaded bass/mid-bass. Remember, for those of you who consider this important, that Stereophile had La Scala IIs ranked in class A--and I'm quite sure Cornwall IIIs are better.
Playing Maria Callas on the Cornwalls gave me one of the most intense listening experiences I've *ever* had--Callas on *those* speakers on *that* day may be the most emotive sound I've *ever* heard. It was fantastic. She was present, projected into the room in 3D, a living, breathing Diva with her quirkily colored, gorgeous soprano. The Clash were there, a huge sound with massive punch and dynamics, every drum whack present, every touch of guitar strings laid bare, in the most natural, live-sounding manner.
Classical fared just as well, with Rubinstein playing Brahms on a concert grand in the room without truncating dynamics, and Yo-Yo Ma's cello sounding glorious on Bach's Cello Sonatas--you'd swear you could hear rosin coming off the bow. The same with Joshua Bell's violin on Voice of the Violin--if there's any hint of nasality or horn coloration, violin *will* bring it out. There was none.
The common denominator is the "live" quality of the sound which I haven't heard since I sold similar Klipsch speakers 20 years ago. There is a freedom from dynamic limitations, a feeling that the speakers are not limiting whatever dynamics are on the medium, something that is nearly always present on most speakers, planars in particular. It made me think that "audiophile" speaker design has forgotten a basic principle from the golden age of Hi-Fi, the importance of trying to capture the dynamics of live sound as best as possible with low distortion, in pursuing ever more top-end detail and stygian bass, which usually just causes problems in most rooms anyway.
There were modern "audiophile" Klipsch RF-83s right next to the Cornwalls, and they sounded sucked out in the midrange, lacking the presence, vividness, and live quality of the Cornwalls, but with objectively more extended highs and bass, making them sound artificial. That detail is an artifact of close-miked recording and audiophile's obsession with hearing everything breathed into the mike; that detail doesn't exist in the real world as it is quickly killed off by the surroundings and distance from the performers to the audience.
In the review below, note the amazingly low distortion and relatively flat in-room FR.
I am not alone in my sentiments. The German magazine Stereoplay ranked them "Absolute Spitzenklasse" (absolute top class)--as high as it gets, and ahead of many luminous modern speakers: http://www.stereoplay.de/Testbericht/Klipsch-Cornwall-III_1504981.html
For another review: http://sites.google.com/site/mitjaborko/audiopage3
So, if you can--give them a listen. They're stupendous.
Product Weakness: | Big and boxy, they are old-school speakers slightly focused on the midrange, but only to the extent they sound natural in the sense of live in a concert hall; not the deepest bass. |
Product Strengths: | Live, impactful, fast, sweet sound--no harshness or expected horn colorations; smoother, more even response than La Scala IIs and Klipschorns. Super fast, tuneful bass. |
Amplifier: | Cambridge 840XD |
Preamplifier (or None if Integrated): | Cambridge 840 |
Sources (CDP/Turntable): | Cambridge 740 |
Speakers: | - |
Cables/Interconnects: | - |
Music Used (Genre/Selections): | - |
Room Comments/Treatments: | shop room setup in room filled with other speakers, hardwired with basic wiring and speaker switcher |
Time Period/Length of Audition: | 3 hours |
Other (Power Conditioner etc.): | - |
Type of Audition/Review: | Dealer Demo |
Having put my money where my mouth is and bought a pair, I can only say that my impressions as stated in the review are even more emphatically stated now that I've listened to them at home for two weeks. Hearing them solo in a good room away from 20 other speakers has elicited a fine level of transparency, even better dynamics, and a non-fatiguing disposition.They will not give you an artificial impression of "depth" or "separation of instruments," they do not have "chocolatey" this-or-that, nor do they have "silken" highs "glittering" from the "blackest" of backgrounds. Nor do they have an "emotionally" expressive midrange, excellent "PRAT," or a "finely strewn layer of gray-ish powdered grain" in the upmost highs.
Alas, a very un-audiophile speaker, proudly wearing PWK's yellow "Bullshit" button on its sleeve (PWK used to wear such a button under his jacket lapel, lifting the lapel and revealing the button if some nutter started in on some audio nonsense, especially at tradeshows).
They simply project instruments and music into your room with as much vividness, dynamics, and neutrality as can be asked for at the very reasonably price--and much higher. They're a blast to listen to, and completely unfatiguing. As far as I'm concerned, they're utter bargains at the retail price. What else does one want?
Edits: 06/22/10
Because if they ever did, and compared them to each other, horn speakers will reveal their greatest strength. And this is the real deal for "ultra-fi" audiophiles who also use exceptional low power amps that match to them best.
Dynamic Compression could be stated as something like this: "-5 dB compression at 100 dBA output 1m away." That is typical of a two-way direct radiator. It means that when 1 mW or some small power pink noise input was there, the acoustic output was pretty linear to the power in and was uncompressed at 0 dB compression. When the speaker gets full power and the output is 100 dBA acoustic output, if it had no compression it would really be 105 dBA. That's quite a diminished dynamic and will lose "speed" and articulated detail subjectively.
Then look at the typical spec for same power into a Cornwall, 15 dB more sensitive than the 2-way direct radiator. That 15 dB extra sensitivity, barring other problems, by rule of thumb will push back the -5 dB compression of the 2-way to the compression at 85 dB instead of 100 dB, at least. Typically that will be about 5.6 times less compression at 100 dB for the Cornwalls, or -0.7 dB compression at the same acoustic output instead of -5 dB, if using the same drivers horn loaded vs. unloaded.
High sensitivity does this, the higher the better. But usually at cost of something else as the system is more complicated than a direct radiator. But the high sensitivity system cannot be better in terms of full dynamics, microdynamics, and extreme articulation. Dynamic Compression is a real specification and one that actually has meaning toward the sound. But nobody measures it.
So you really are an audiophile because you liked its subjective superior performance in the areas you value.
-Kurt
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be the Whole of the Law" - Alister Crowley
"High Fidelity? High Fi...what??? Blast, MF, Blast" - Techno Rapper
I love this thread. It neatly demonstrates what I've long suspected to be the primary rule of high fidelity:
Loudness Shall Be the Whole of the Law
Formerly Audiophile10000
but I'll give it to you for selecting their best sounding product from the lot. The last few years of the Cornwall II run was their ultimate achievement, IMO. The only Klipsch speaker that I would want to live with, yet still not find room for! ;-).
-Bill
Does anyone have any experience with this speaker? I know it is not a Klipsch per se. There is almost no information on this forum about this cross between a Cornwall and La Scala. My first pair of speakers were Chorus speakers and I still have them in a second system. I'd love to have them modded with upgraded crossovers and better components. Would it still be a Klipsch, though? So, if I am spending money on the old Choruses, the idea of the Cornscala intrigues me.
And yes, audiophiles love to sniff their noses in disdain at the mere mention of Klipsch.
Nice review, Kristian.
I finished my conversion of Cornwalls to CornScalas. Amazing. Not even the same speaker. The CornScala tops the Cornwall in every regard. I installed the gothover horns, built a modified version of the ALK universal XO that Dave sent the schematic for along with the horns, and installed Crites CT125 tweeters. I also put B-Quiet under new poly in the cabinets. Well worth the effort, I cannot imagine another pair of speakers this good for the $1400 or so I have into them. No trace of harshness in the upper mids, no ringing, very deep bass. Fun project and very rewarding.
cheers,
Don
Just stumbled upon this review. Fun read! It just so happens that I have a pair of 1975 Cornwalls I just acquired and have ordered a pair of Dave's Fastrac cornwall replacement horns and a pair of Bob Crites' replacement tweeters. I am building a new crossover and will install new horns and mount the tweeters flush on the outside of the board for better dispersion. Essentially, it is a CornScala. I will let you know how it sounds. The stock Cornwalls are fun, but the caps are 30 years old. I hope to get a bit more extension on the top end and lose the honkiness. I will also brace the cabinet a bit while in there. Hope to have all the parts in a week or two. I have also been told by several others that if you remove the bug screen from the KV55 drivers they sound better. I will let you know how they sound! I have a pair of modified Fortes in the basement (new crossover caps, new tweeter diaphragms) and they sound wonderful, but the Cornwalls have that jump factor - the dynamics. Guess we shall see if they can be improved.
cheers,
Don
Molly,
Not a Cornscala, but if you are ever near Knoxville (TN) as you traverse to Arkansas or other.... you are more than welcome to stop by my place and give a listen to a stock LaScala, "JubeScala" or the Jubilee.
The JubeScala is a LaScala bass horn mated with either the Klipsch K510 HF horn as a 2-way speaker, or the LaScala bass bin mated with the Klipsch K402 horn that sits atop most Jubilee's. The 402 is a HUGE horn, actually a little larger than the LaScala itself!
Honest offer if you're ever interested.
Side comment on the Cornscala... I once asked Bob Crites if the Klipsch K510 would also work in that configuration.....he said he felt it would work quite nicely and allow to go to a 2-way design however, he felt that most people might not want to pay for the Klipsch horn.
Perhaps that is true, I however, have the belief that it's worth educating people on what the options are and let them make their own decision(s).
Thanks!
I'm also intrigued by the Cornscalas, but would need to hear them. There's no doubt in my mind that both the La Scalas and Klipschorns suffer from some upper-frequency horn coloration compared with the Cornwall III. I know this as I was able to compare all in the same room by using a speaker switcher. The Cornwall was easily the best balanced, with no trace of horn coloration. So, I'd need to ensure the Cornscala doesn't suffer from that, too, as the topend is based on the La Scala.
I think upgrading your Choruses with Bob Crites diaphragms and crossovers would be a swell idea, though I wouldn't necessarily install different drivers.
But, I would listen to a pair of Cornwall IIIs if possible; they really are *terrific*, and one of my audiolife's great eye-opening moments. Klipsch really re-engineered that speaker; it's not just a copy of the Cornwall II. The cabinets, drivers, and crossovers are different, with the old Cornwall problem of standing waves inside the enclosures fixed.
That's a really good idea, Kristian. I had not given much thought about the differences between the Cornwall II and the III. Now, you have given me something else to think about. I'll probably need to go over to the Klipsch forum and see if there is anyone nearby where I could audtion a pair.
I have relatives (by marriage) in Arkansas and even though Bob Crites' is a bit far their home, I wonder if he entertains visitors? I could certainly see myself driving up to his shop to audition the Cornscalas or if he had any Cornwalls in.
Well, keep me posted if you do.
Also, though I do not know where you live, Simply Stereo in Hoffman Estates near Chicago has every Klipsch Heritage model on display. He says he's the only dealer in the five state area who does.
12 hours to Chicago, 13 hours to Russellville. Wait, what am I saying? Chicago vs Russellville...Hmmmm...
Well, don't get too excited, unless you're planning an overnight in the city--the shop is about 25 miles outside town in one of the archtypically terrible generic American suburbs.
If you do come, have the best deep dish pizza ever (best pizza ever? It is in my book) at Chicago's famous Burt's Place--not too far away from the shop in Morton's Grove. As featured on Anthony Bourdain. Don't forget to call a couple of hours in advance to order. They have a super collection of ham radios in the tiny restaurant, too.
ran them with a restored fisher 500c and an old Thorens. What an fantastic combination that was. I sold the Fisher and Klipsch when i moved into a small apartment in SF. miss them both badly.
I heard Cornwalls back in the late 70's and was so impressed with them that I replaced my AR-3a's with Heresy's. Don't get me wrong, the 3a's are a fantastic speaker but did not have the clarity the Klipsch had. Since then I have moved on to LaScala's and still have the Heresy's. Sold the 3a's and the guy blew the tweeters within a week hooked up to a 25w budget reciever. I told him not to turn it up with that rcvr but alas, wish I still had them. Klipsch is not favored amongst "Audiophiles"
as they call them "grating" and other nefarious inflections. I have been playing trumpet since 71 and have heard great musicians along the way, but there is no speaker that can reproduce a live instrument. Period.
I like my LaScala's in my current set up and it does what I intend for it to do, try to give me a great soundstage with the you are here impression. I am sure there are better sounding systems in dedicated listening rooms I would envy, but I will settle with what I have and enjoy the music.
Nice review, thanks. I like the old Klipsch (I own Kg4 and Forte).....I also own Apogee Duetta Signatures, and Apogee MiniGrands. To be honest I love all 4 of these speaker systems for what they do...outstanding really.
I haven't heard a pair of Cornwall (new or old).......but I'd like to.
I agree that dynamic range is very important if you want to create an illusion of real music. You have experienced what makes people fall in love with Altec VOT's and similar designs. Unfortunately, Klipsch isn't the best to experience what a good horn system can do. Klipsch is a good idea hampered by mid quality horns/drivers. A good Altec or JBL setup (and others, too)is a good step above, and when properly implemented, will give a better sense of realism. An all-out audiophile quality horn system will create a far more believable illusion than just about any other loudspeaker.
Sells for about the same and is a superior sounding loudspeaker. I agree 100% with horn lovers opinion on Klipsch.
Hmm, you have glossed over some specifics. Which comparably priced JBLs would you recommend?
Which comparably priced (used) Altecs would you recommend? Would these Altecs have a clean bass?
I have not heard the version 3 Cornwall, but I used to own CW2s. These are about $500-600 on the used market right now. I think they are one of the great values out there (value = quality divided by price).
I have been impressed, very impressed, with some of the older JBL 43xx series. But those are at least twice the price.
Well...I guess I glossed over some specifics because it can get into quite a huge variety of parts, designs, etc. The point I was trying to make was if he liked what he heard with the Cornwalls, then a similar design with better components would sound even better. Everything considered, I think the Cornwall concept (bass reflex for bass, horns for mid/highs) is the best for most people in a domestic environment. As much as I like full horn loading on the bass, it just isn't practical in a typical living room, unless the horn is folded (which has its own set of compromises). My own system consists of a 6th order bass reflex for bass, using a 15" Selenium WPU1505. This is not a 6th order band pass, but an assisted BR alignment. It gives my an F3 of 28 with a 4 ft3 box. I bi-amp, crossong over at 500 to an Altec 511B/802D combo, and use an EV T35 for the very top where the Altec starts to roll off. I have done the typical tweeks, such as damping the 511 horn, etc. This system sounds very dynamic and lifelike. I regularly attend our local symphony concerts to keep my ear calibrated (besides for the enjoyment of it), so I can judge quite well what sounds realistic. If a person is inclined to DIY, then a Cornwall copy using better components can be had for the price of a pair, and will exceed the performance of the Cornwalls quite easily.
Thanks for the informative, enthusiastic review. A friend and I heard an earlier generation at a local shop; his response was simply, "These are the speakers God listens to!" I used the La Scala model for over 20 years (though eventually in a back room as I found Linn Saras a more insightful reproducer in my main system), and, sound quality aside, it's very easy to live with a big, stable box designed to go right up against the wall (or, of course, in the corners should they be available) and that the cat can jump up on to look out the window or take a snooze with no chance of damaging or toppling them.
the first pair I heard in 1988, and dream of a pair of active Komris one day!
Thanks for the comments.
Other than K-horns, Conrwalls were the best classic Klipsch.
it's not for everyone. Have a friend with vintage Cornwalls. While I do not care for the sound of his, in his room with his gear, I have heard them, LaScalas and Khorns sound GREAT. About 25 years ago there was a chain audio store here that had a back room full of Klipsch speakers before they went plastic and lower end. I could listen to the K horns in their room and setup forever. The Classics are just that and with the right gear can sound fantastic. An acquired taste perhaps. Dynamic as field artillery.
"E pur si muove...And yet it moves"
Thank you for a well written and informative post. I appreciate your "sane" (mentally sound) approach to our hobby where it can be so easy to lose our way in pursuit of great sound. I especially appreciate your comments on the "live" quality of the sound. Just last week over at Hi-Rez (below) I wrote very much the same thing and have often made similar statements in this forum.
Robert C. Lang
Great review, thanks for sharing.
I've owned Klipshorns for the last year or so after Maggies, Logans, and several box speakers. The KHorns are a lot of fun to own and do sound very good, if in a unique way. I've never heard Cornwalls but have heard good things about them. There's a guy in my area who has invited me over to hear his Cornwalls - I think I'm gonna take him up on the offer.
I had Cornwalls for about 20 years. They were hard to replace for me. When I listened to some of the more modern speakers out there, they just didn't make me want to replace the Cornwalls. I did find replacements eventually and doubt I would ever go back. My Cornwalls had bloated bass, but the midrange and treble were quite dynamic. I came to believe that the high efficiency contributed to the sense of dynamics and drama. They sounded lively. They run run on low wattage and you get used to whatever honkyness there may be, and don't even notice it after a while. I think that I paid about $450 for mine back in the '70s. I didn't set mine up for soundstage back then. They were huge and so they were arranged where ever they fit. They were usually arranged on adjascent walls. The plan was to fill the room with music and to hell with soundstaging. They work well like that.
Here's news for you - that ain't Klipsch RF-83.
30 years in some cases isn't enough, apparently.
As you say quite appropriately, you're not really an audiophile - but that's not because you don't "believe" in pebbles, clocks, expensive cables, and other such stuff. It's mostly your irrational hatred towards audiophiles.
He is almost in RBNG territory with seven mentions in one sitting. :)
rw
.
Good, yes, you've done well, here is a small prize: the history of the world.
I heard a pair in the late '70s, I think, driven by a Tandberg 2075 receiver. I still remember how wonderfully pure, clean and "live" sounding they were. One of the few speakers of that era whose sound really stuck with me.
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