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In Reply to: RE: Skylan stands posted by Tarzan on March 05, 2008 at 15:24:29
Hi. I just purchased Skylan 18" stands for my Harbeth Super HL5, too, and Noel recommended kitty litter. (BTW: Noel is one of the nicest guys working in audio.) I think he mentioned Purina brand, not for any sonic qualities, I don't think, but it's easily obtainable. I didn't get a sense from talking to him that there's much difference between kitty litter and sand. He did mention some fanatics getting exotic material to fill up the Skylans, but honestly, I have better things to do on my free time. I say just order some kitty litter from Amazon and have a go, and if you're not satisfied, head over to Home Depot & see what the options are in other material.
http://selfdivider.com/
Follow Ups:
that doesn't make a lot of sense. I like and respect Noel, a lot, and I've been recommending kitty litter for filling steel stands for years, but if you want to fill Skylan stands, which dont ring, you must be interested in adding mass. It seems to me that sand (and lead if you prefer) are heavier than kitty litter.
________
"Occasionally we list eccentrically, all sense of balance gone."
I know that sand and lead shot lower the resonance frequency of (Audio Note) steel stands, taking them from "donk" to "thuck." What does filler do for Skylans, which are MDF? I am curious because I've got a pair en route to coompare here with Magic Stands, which are also MDF, by the way, but essentially solid.
The Skylans only use MDF for the top and bottom plate. The supports are extruded polymer.
I still need some quality stands for my Twin Signatures and was leaning towards Skylans (custom top plate, relatively cheap, Canadian made, comes with spikes and soft footers and can be set up for 3 or 4 spikes/feet per stand).
I'm not sure that Magic Stands, sans spikes (as you recommend), will be as stable (blu-tak'd to the floor or not) as a mass loaded stand (even a non-mass loaded stand) that sits on 4 adjustable spikes/feet or 3 spikes/feet which are essentially self leveling. It also seems like it would be a hell of a lot easier to move the speakers around to try different locations when you aren't dealing with Blu-Tak between the stands and the floor.
Maybe I am wrong and the Magic Stands work like a charm from a functional standpoint. Being able to see them in person before plopping down $400 would sure be a big help. Unfortunately, Toronto is a bit of a trek from Amherst.
I may well bring both Skylans and Magic Stands to the Montreal Show. I don't use Blue Tak under the stands, just plop 'em on the bare floor.
And they don't rock at all? My floors are laminate wood over concrete. Fairly flat but certainly not perfectly flat.
Wish I could make it to Montreal. Hopefully, some others will be able to make the show and report on their finding with regards to the two very different stands with the Twins.
I'm not averse to spending $400 on Magic Stands if they really offer better sound and are functional.
Your floor would seem to be more regular than mine, which is tongue in groove oak over concrete...with stringers underneath the oak. I've Tacked them and not and have not noticed a difference. Which is not to say there isn't a subtle one. They don't rock but I can't say they're absolutely rock steady. If I had a huge dog that wagged a huge tail or a kid baby football player, I might take more pains. I guess I'm not a really pure audiophile in that sense. My cables aren't "lifted" either.
I guess that's what has me confused about the Magic Stands. I was always under the impression that the speaker cabinet should remain as fixed in space as possible (mostly front to back), allowing the drivers, particularly the woofer, to do their job without allowing the cabinet to move back and forth which could have a negative affect, particularly in bass reproduction.
So, is that not the goal? Assuming it is, how can a stand which is not rock solid (one that is either low or high mass) and does not fix the speaker in space solidly do it's job properly?
That is, they're plenty solid,it's just that the floor under them isn't absolutely true. Maybe one of these days I'll Tack them again to see if I hear any subtle improvements. But the bass that's coming out of my Duets these days makes that exercise seem...well, like an exercise!
From my convo with Noel, it seemed that even though Skylans are MDF, you do get better result, especially for the bass response, with filler. Even if it's not from "donk" to "thuck," it seems that the mass does significantly increase bass response, especially w/ Harbeths. When I was deliberating on Skylans and other options - and Noel is DEFINITELY not a pusher, recommended me some cheaper alternatives actually, b/c I'm a student - he told me to go for something, as long as it wasn't steel. He told me to avoid those b/c of the ringing resonance that might persist even after mass-loading.
http://selfdivider.com/
Well I don't hear any ringing from my sand and lead filled AN stands and get great bass from my E's, but maybe I have just have old ears. My main interest is in finding out whether the Skylans can match or outperform the Magic Stands, since my builder can't seem to get around to building the latter for my Twins and Duets customers fast enough. Magic Stands are designed (Helmholtz Resonator) to get rid of the bass hump in the 80-100 Hertz range resulting in a smoother overall response. They do that well. So let's see what the Skylans do. It's theirs to lose.
Yeah, I'm sure there are metal stands that totally work. Before Harbeth started using/recommending Skylans, they were using Sound Anchors, after all, which are metal stands. I think Noel was just generalizing for me, so I don't have to deal with ringing if I went w/ cheap stands. Cheap wood definitely has advantage over cheap metal stands, it seems. Definitely less risk of ringing.
http://selfdivider.com/
Harbeth never "used" Sound Anchors. Their US distributors might have. Harbeth actually supplied nice matching wooden stands for the HL series in their original incantations (C7, K6, P3). I have a pair of K6's with stands. Alan has said that the only purpose of a stand is to get the tweeter up to the right height (acknowledging later that if you have kids or pets, stability is important, and stands that make noise are not recommended).
________
"Occasionally we list eccentrically, all sense of balance gone."
Yeah, I remember reading in the Harbeth forum how Alan was basically wholeheartedly recommending Ikea Lack side tables as stands! They're like 15 bucks each. Then Ikea changed the size/dimension of the Lacks and Alan specifically recommended Skylans and one other brand, & discouraged using the Lacks as stands, as they changed in size.
I thought Harbeth used Sound Anchors at various shows, no?
http://selfdivider.com/
They probably use Sound Anchors or some other "high end" stand at shows in the US where their presentation is organized by their US distributor, who also sells stands. I doubt they use anything in particular in the UK.
________
"Occasionally we list eccentrically, all sense of balance gone."
Folks have been using Sound Anchors under Harbeths for years, including the previous importer. We were having this discussion on the Harbeth Forum feels like 8 or years ago. Robert Greene swore by wood (custom made for him), most of the rest of us (perhaps not you) were using SA's. Mine sounded fine. That doesn't say that Skylans wouldn't be better, whatever better turns out to be. It just means that SA's were fine and probably still are. Ring a ding.
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