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195.159.161.2
Hi everybody
Im looking for a subwoofer for Merlin VSM MX. And I am really keen on buying JL Audio Fathom f113. But i do not know how it will sound together and if it will be a good match. And i was hoping that someone here had heard either the sub alone with som other speakers ore both of them together.
Ore should i go for another sub like Velodyne or REL.
Thanks a lot for all feedback!
Roy :)
Merlin VSM MX - Super BAM
Graaf GM 20
Aesthetix Calypso
Burmester 001
Slim Devices Transporter
Cardas Golden Reference
Isol-8 CleanLineČ
Follow Ups:
The Rythmikaudio subs are all the rage. Super servo design....as good? if not better? than Velodyne and WAY cheaper.....however, you have to build the cabinet.......minor detail. I have heard nothing but total raves from people needing the fastest, tighest most musical sub.
I'm satisfied with VSM-MX, BBAM, and Vel DD-15 connected via line-level inputs from preamp. Using BBAM precludes speaker-level inputs as favored by REL.
the Velodyne integrates well? And does not become boomy ore have any overhang?
_
Merlin VSM MX - Super BAM
Graaf GM 20
Aesthetix Calypso
Burmester 001
Slim Devices Transporter
Cardas Golden Reference
Isol-8 CleanLineČ
The Vel DD does fine with the BBAM remaining in the circuit & the sub's LPF set low at 30Hz with 12db or 24db/octave slope. Avoid newer DDs with 2.2 software, as Vel has removed the ability from 2.1 & prior releases to set crossover points below 40Hz. You can make the Vel tighter & more impactful by replacing the plate amp's 4-pin rectifier bridge with discrete diodes.
No complaints about Vel, but based upon very favorable reviews, if buying new I would consider Fathom.
How do you like the Graaf? I used to own the 50/50 power amp which was a great PP amp. The possibility of owning the 20 still crosses my mind from time to time. I am sure it is a great match with your speakers.
I love the graaf! It has some reability issues that must be fixed. Im lacking to to that. But i will mod it so that it can last for years and years on. Still when it comes to the Sound it makes it is just beautifull! Its dynamic tunefull and very enganging musically but still retaining a resolution and smoothnes i still have not heard in any other amp i have had in my system. For me its a great sounding OTL. And i think that OTL do sound more enganging and dynamically more impactfull then a ordenary tubed amplifier.
Roy :)
_
Merlin VSM MX - Super BAM
Graaf GM 20
Aesthetix Calypso
Burmester 001
Slim Devices Transporter
Cardas Golden Reference
Isol-8 CleanLineČ
Thanks for the info. What sort of reliability problem? My 5050 would blow a fuse periodically for nor apparent reason. I sold it when I went single ended but I would own it again if a great deal came along! I will keep my eyes open for a GM 20 down the road. I have always been intrigued by it.
Had I kept my Merlin's I would have eventually ended up with the GM20. At some point, I hope that serendipty strikes. At 98 db and 16 ohms, I am sure it would work great with my current speakers.
geo, we have a lot of people using this amp on the vsm in europe and all love it.
happy holidays!
best,
b
what james is saying is true.
if you get the speakers e-modded and get a lead free super bam, there is a substantial improvement in fullness and seemingly, extention. the sound will become more continuous, complete and expansive.
call me roy.
best,
b
what james is saying is true.
if you get the speakers e-modded and get a lead free super bam, there is a substantial improvement in fullness and seemingly, extention. the sound will become more continuous, complete and expansive.
call me roy.
best,
b
I will call you next week bobby!
THanks a lot!
Roy :)
_
Merlin VSM MX - Super BAM
Graaf GM 20
Aesthetix Calypso
Burmester 001
Slim Devices Transporter
Cardas Golden Reference
Isol-8 CleanLineČ
I sure would want to have a listen to that upgrade before I put out the money for it hoping it will give you the bass you seem to be lacking. I find it hard to believe it will do what you are looking for in a subwoofer. I wish things were that simple.
but things can be that simple, bob.
people buy subs for different reasons. some for actual bass extension and some to add fullness to the tone.
if you are the first example, then this probably won't do it for you. but if you are the second, it just may.
the mod is very inexpensive for what it does but roy is in norway so he has some shipping costs to consider. james below us, was obviously the second example.
best,
b
My experience has always been that tweaks and mods can make improvements in gear, but I do not think they can make enough difference when someone is thinking about buying a sub, period. I am not commenting specifically about Merlins, but rather, as I said, my own experience. I stand by my comment that he should hear the mod and see if it does what he is looking for before spending the cash, especially if it involves shipping. I personally think he is safer buying a sub, maybe buying a used one, without risk of losing money, and seeing if it does the trick. You and Merlin owners can describe the improvements any way you want, but saying so does not mean he will get what he is looking for. I also am not comfortable with manufacturers following threads and steering people towards every upgrade. Just my opinion.
rob,
it also doesn't mean he won't get exactly what he is looking for.
you come with too much preconception my friend.
preconception and first hand knowledge are very different because the one person who has it in this string, you seem to have ignored.
roy and i are old friends and i have helped him through a lot with his system. perhaps i understand better than you, what he is looking for.
you should know me better before you start making accusations.
:-)
best,
b
I am not making accusations. I am giving my honest opinion, based, both, on my experience, and years of following these threads. You obviously do not need my approval to run your successful business.
To further my initial point, I have heard Merlins many times and understand why some people love them. But, they are what they are. I own a pair of Parsifal Ovations, love them and could not think of a speaker I would prefer at this time. But, they too, are what they are and I can not expect them to do things that they can't. No amount of tweaking or modifications is going to change that. I learned that lesson the hard way.
I realize that these are just my opinions and not based on first hand knowledge, but they are based on experience and that is the best most can do here. Some experience just translates well. These forums are about sharing knowledge and experience. I am sharing mine even if they do not suit you.
rob,
much of what you say i agree with. in particular that no amount of tweeking or modification can ever make something do what it cannot do (well, for the most part anyway). if this was about bass extension, then we would have no arguement. but when it comes to a fuller tone, we most certainly do. and remember, i have history with this man and i am going by that and what i know first hand. this is just not a black and white situation. let this slide.
vps are one of my favorites and i recommend them regulary.
good choice.
best,
b
Hi Bobby,
Any thoughts as to whether the lead-free solder upgrade produced dividends across the frequency range, in addition to improved bass?
Dave
dave,
no doubt in my mind it takes the entire bandwidth into consideration.
it is more continuous and because of that more complete sounding.
very focused and expansive stage.
call me so i can explain properly.
we haven't talked in a while.
best, b
Have your speakers upgraded to "e" status--lead free. You may not want or need a sub...That's what happened to me. Call Bobby at Merlin.
It's just a matter of time before I have my MXs altered to the lead-free version. I recently changed out my BAM to the lead-free version BAM and noticed a tighter, faster bass, along with an improved soundstage. Bobby promises a quick turn-around on converting the MXs to the lead-free version. Just a matter of driving them up to his shop.
for me the move to the lead free "e" was not subtle. I also just moved to the ARS Filarmonia amp. Deep controlled bass is abundant. No more sub required. This is coming for someone who used a REL Storm III for the past several years with the VSM's and listens to rock music almost entirely. I have no desire whats so ever to use a sub and have 5 of them in my house (REL, Velodyne, PSB, Outlaw, and Paradigm).
Music to my ears. I've got a Filarmonia on order, and hoping to receive it soon. Thanx for the input.
bd,
glad it worked out well for you.
tried to mail you to see but never heard back.
speakers turned around in a week or less.
more playing time will get an even bigger improvement for you.
best,
b
I have had a Rel Strata III my self but that did not work at all. To slow and sluggish. But that was a time ago so now i want a sub which works with music and with film. That is why im considering the JL Audio
Merlin VSM MX - Super BAM
Graaf GM 20
Aesthetix Calypso
Burmester 001
Slim Devices Transporter
Cardas Golden Reference
Isol-8 CleanLineČ
For a subwoofer that has no onboard equalizaton nor high-pass filter that is hardly surprising. For an educated case, the subwoofer exciting the room's resonance modes, which is general perceive an bass overhang.
Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
I had a REL Strata III with my VSM-MM and to be honest, I could never get it to integrate well with the Merlins. I tried every combination, BAM in, BAM out etc. I bought the REL used and sold it 6 months later and got my money out. Fun experiment, and it satisfied my curiosity. If and when Merlin puts out their own sub, I will probably give it another try.
I'd stay away from REL they are WAY overpriced and if you have any problems with the amp, Sumiko will not fix it just sell you a new high priced one.
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