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New 300B pair arrived today, date code 2113. Noticed right away that the plates are shiny and a silvery / pewtery color as opposed to the dull black plate on the 90's reissue WE.
I attach pictures for anyone interested in the different plates of the 2021 reissue and the 1998 reissue.
BG
Follow Ups:
I waited 2 years for my first pair of Rossville re-issue WE 300Bs (see below) and 2 days for the 2nd pair! I received an email last week from WE indicating that they have caught up with pre-orders and now are producing and shipping new 300Bs on demand.I immediately placed an order and two days later I received this latest pair. Like you, the first thing I noticed was the shiny/silvery coating. I was told that this new coating takes about 200 hours of use to sound its best. I have about 15 hours on them so far.
Mine have the same date codes (2113) as yours. My serial numbers are in the 500 range, how about your pair? I also have a pair of Takasuki 300Bs and feel that they are truly excellent. I won't do any A/B comparisons until I have the 200 hours on the WE 300Bs but I still have an initial impression. I find the Taks to be super transparent and dynamic (the latter is a bit different than your take). The WE 300Bs seem to have that "romantic" beauty that previous generations are known for.
I started a thread on the SET Asylum about a year ago when I received the first consumer pair of Rossville re-issue 300Bs. They did not have the same shiny/silvery coating like this latest pair. They had date codes of 1939.
I wasn't happy that the boxes were open/seals broken when I received them and sold them rather quickly. I figured I would wait until WE got full production up and running to buy another pair. I was surprised to get that email from WE last week.
I too will report back on the Takatsuki vs. latest Rossville WE 300Bs.
Gerry
Edits: 03/17/21
Hi Gerry,
Mine are in the lower 600s...
So far, these (to my tin ears in my system) with a little over 10 hours on them, are everything I hoped for, and more...
BG
One observation re WE300B has been not as tight and plentiful bass as some others..
Hi DanL,
I haven't noticed a drop off in bass with the Graphene WE's. I mostly stream music through Tidal and iTunes, and the songs with a lot of bass come through with a lot of bass. That said, my speakers are horns with bass bins (EV Sentry IVB), so depth of bass has never has been significant to me, but tight bass and how it is presented is significant to me.
As a result of your question, I used a decibel measuring app on the iPhone, and I can feel bass (via vibration on the armrest of my leather couch) at as low listening levels as lower 60db.
I have wood floors, but the metal feet of both the couch and the speakers are separated from the floor by Ace brand heavy duty felt pads.
In short, my equipment has never had deep bass, but I don't notice a lack of depth in bass with the Graphene WEs. Bass has always been tight, though, through this rig, and with the Graphene WE's it's tight enough to feel impactful bass as described above at levels as low as 60db (according to the decibel app on my iPhone), at a distance of approximately 10 feet from the speakers.
In terms of other pluses for the Graphene WE's, Johnny Cash, Hank Jr., Pavarotti, and the Irish Tenors' voices have never been this good through these speakers, and these speakers disappear more with the Graphene WE's than the limited others I've tried (Tak, Shuguang, TJ Mesh ST).
I'm not affiliated with WE in any way, just describing what I hear to my ears in my system.
Thanks for your question, JonL. I hope this was helpful in terms of tightness of bass, and hope someone who has a better set-up to listen to and comment on depth of bass will do so, too.
BG
Thanks, that's very helpful
The application note is very interesting " By coating the plate with graphene, rather than carbon, our engineers have improved the 300B's capacity for thermal emissivity and electrical conductivity between the plate and filament. Graphene's single atomic layer adheres to the proprietary, "five-nines" pure nickel alloy of the plate, sustaining a higher vacuum that significantly reduces gas evolution detrimental to tube life over time. In addition to extending tube life, this improvement yields higher average plate current and dramatically reduces the effects of secondary emission."I am however not so sure if this is all correct. The heat transfer is mostly reduced by the glassbulb, the quality of the glass. The electrical conductivity shouldnot be an issues too.
But the secondairy emmision dos, that is why nickel, molybdeen , graffite where always use as a plate material and grafeen as a new devellopped material is a bonus.
And how the vacuum would be sustained by graffeen? Why?Btw, I still see blue light in the tube. Probably some free electrons causing a fluorisense effect, hopefully not gas.
Edits: 03/22/21 03/22/21
@ Kobasa - Here's a picture now, the blue in the tops is almost completely gone... the reflection is the Kansas vs. USC game on the TV...
BG
not bad, but you should try the cross eyed halibut just for the hell of it
or you might like a sturgeon caught for the very first time, in brown sauce
sorry, had some memorial shots
salute!
Pretty good, RiverValley!!! :)
thank you! I'll be here until the end of the month
please be sure to tip your waitress
Hi Kobasa, I took the picture that has all the blue in the tops of the tubes the first time I played the tubes. On first start up, it was brighter than the picture showed. Since then, the blue has mostly gone away - just a very thin blue line just above the top mica...
I'll try to post a picture of what they look like now tonight...
BG
I was told that this new coating takes about 200 hours of use to sound its best. I have about 15 hours on them so far.
so wait... these are not original 300b repros but "new and improved"?
is there any documentation on this change anywhere?
dave
Hi Dave:
See the link below for information about the anode composition.
Gerry
I think that WE switched to graphene in 2006. The plates of my 2006 WE look exactly like the new ones.
So did the plates of the WE300b 6Moons reviewed back in 2006.
Sounds like chicken!
I just happened on this thread.
Makes me glad that modern materials and research are 'trickling down' to the lowly vacuum tube.
I'd love to know more about the process. and the substrate it 'sticks' to. Somefilms when deposited on another shrink or stretch, creating a form of stress....Either tensile or compressive.
Just like to know this kind of thing, related in some fashion, depending on depostion technique, to semiconductor processing.
Too much is never enough
Hi Colonel Sanders,
I apologize for my lack of camera skill! I'll send a picture soon that shows the silvery/pewtery color of the 2021 plates better in the next few days...
I don't know enough to comment on whether your 2006 WE's have a Graphene coating on the plates, which appear black or dark compared to the 2021 tubes, but much shinier or glossier than my 1998 WE black plates. I don't doubt your assertion in the slightest, though!
In other words, the 2021 version look like what some may call "silver plates" in other tube types.
I'm much more familiar with 2A3 tubes, and even in those tubes, as you know, there are differences in identical builds in terms of whether the plate bcoating is dull or shiny. For example, I have a set of Tungsol mono plates with the "cross" top mica structure and dual supports on one side of the tube, where one of the tubes has a dull black plate, and the other has a shiny black plate.
What's the point? I don't know other than that the 2021WE 300B has silvery looking plates instead of dark or back plates. I like the new ones enough that I ordered a second pair...
Sincerely,
BG
and in the case the Colonel may well be right.
Behold! Three of Charlie's WE 300Bs One on the left and the one on the right are with the four digit lot codes starting with 99 purchased in early 2000s, while the one in the middle is a warranty replacement with lot number starting with 05.
I chased Charlie all over the internet trying to get satisfaction on the tube on the left after it developed a loud hummmmm.
Charlie came trough finally with the tube in the middle with both shiny plates (graphene?) and the newer, 05, lot number.
Hi Ivan,
Ever since I moved to Ozland, I haven't played much with the soldering iron other than converting my Horus 2A3 into a 300B based amp (D3a driving a 300B in a parallel feed configuration recycling my trusty MagneQuest irons). Too many beaches to explore and wineries to discover!
I hope the new graphene plates will be more reliable than their previous 2006 experiment! One of my tube has an annoying sputtering. I can't hear it much on my Klipsch Forte III (~95dB/1W/1m) but I can definitely hear it on my Lamhorns 1.8 (103dB/1W/1m).
Despite this annoyance, these sound so good.
Sounds like chicken!
Cranked out a few miles yesterday. Fourth ride of the year as it's early here in Northern New Mexico.
Moved here three years ago and it took a few months to get use to the altitude (7000 ft.), but for biking it's really worth it. Not like dodging cars in Northern California.
Will be re-building my 300B amps (DIY HIFI Supply 'Billies") as WE91 'clones' and might just spring for those 'graphene' plates now that Charlie seem to be back in business.
Take care.
...but riding these is not happening as often as I would like. The Western Australian sun is rather harsh. Summer is between 35 and 40 degrees Celsius with a UV index of up to 13.
Riding in the summer must be done before 9h00 AM. That's the time I flick on the coffee machine.
Looks like I'll pull the trigger on a new pair of WE300B while these are avalable.
Sounds like chicken!
came up over the Wasatch mountains. Had the luxury of doing a 19 mile ride before thinking about heading off to work.
Now old and retired, and again, can ride according to the thermometer.
That "while these are available" comment reminds me of how flaky Charlie and his tube production can be.
Must get busy on the 300B amp rebuilt lest I miss the window.
Photos can be very deceiving due to lighting variables. Also, I have seen a number of 2006 - 2008 WE 300Bs and none had the same shiny silver coating that the latest ones have. Plus that first consumer pair that I received in March of 2020 did not have the coating either.
I know that graphite is mentioned at the end of the 2006 6Moons review but that isn't the same as the current graphene coating. Last, would Western Electric publish an Application Note on their website in November 2020, for a technology that they were using over 14 years ago? I don't think so.
Gerry
... in 2006 (only) they indeed made a small batch of tubes using graphene plates. I can only assume the 300b from the 6Moons review and mine were from this batch.
Westrex mentioned they've improved the process since then.
Sounds like chicken!
It was 2004. So, I'm still a bit skeptical that WE was using Graphene as early as 2006. Graphite, yes Sir, no problem. Also, as Brandtacious wrote, the plates on these current WE 300Bs are a shiny silver in color. Not a shiny black. They kind of look like the "lead" in a #2 pencil which of course is graphite. But even more "silvery".
Gerry
Hi Col. Sanders,
I think I like Graphene a lot - a lot a lot...!
BG
I just noticed an auction at the popular e-auction site, where the new Graphene WE 300B's are being offered with a letter from WE CEO C. Whitener explaining the lighter plates in current production, and a price tag of $2,799 for a pair...
While I can't imagine paying such a premium for a pair of tubes for which I couldn't get the 5-year warranty, I plan to watch and see if someone is more "audiofoolish" than I admit to being...
Gotta love being an American and getting to see stuff like this...!
BG
Edits: 04/25/21
So far, I like graphene - so far, I like graphene a lot...!!!
BG
Based on memory alone, at this point in the break-in period, these graphene coated WE 300Bs clearly sound better than that first pair I received a year ago. That pair sounded very good, so this is saying something.
Not knowing if any other changes were made, it's hard to know if the graphene coated plates is the reason. They may not be to the original WE 300B material/composition spec but if they sound better, who cares?
BTW BG, your generosity to send your Takatsuki to a stranger to try, motivated me to offer my friend in another state the same. He accepted!
Gerry
Right on, Gerry! Going from EL34 to 2A3 to 300B, I have quite a collection in my quest for the "perfect" tube - some good, some great, some not so good. Forums such as this one are helpful to narrow things down, but sometimes you just have to hear for yourself. For example, in 2A3 tubes, I've found that to my ears, I like the WWII versions with the grungy scratched black plates. I can listen all day and not be fatigued, and really enjoy the music. On the other hand, I was anticipating something really special in the PSVANE ACME 2A3, but even after 200+ hours of burn in, those tubes in my system make my ears ring, where most of the others don't (I have a perforated eardrum in one ear, and tinnitus.).
My point, I think, is that if I could have heard some of those tubes before I bought them, I'd have many less tubes and much more beer money! n terms of sharing so someone else doesn't encounter that disappointment of paying for a premium tube that __ [Makes ears ring; too bright in system; too dull in system; or any other reason], I'm happy to do so with tubes that would otherwise be shelved - the Taks are great, but in my rig, this new Graphene plate WE is already the one I prefer, followed by the '98 WE reissue, and then the Taks. So, sure, I'm happy to help another enthusiast. These graphene WE's, though, likely won't leave my amp for approximately 4 years and 51 weeks when the extended warranty ends...!!!
BG
When playing rock/metal/hip-hop/electronic modern music, Takatsuki 300B really seems to elevate itself, mainly due to laser-like, highly detailed and resolved treble combined with very refined and smooth lower-treble/upper-midrange that smooths out this genre's rough edges.
I don't know if you listen to any of these genre?
Hi JonL, I do indeed... To me, the Takatsukis are awesome in terms of detail and finesse - all around, really to my ears.
The thing that the WE's seem to do more to the enjoyment of my ears in my system is portray more or greater of a diversity in respective volumes among the different instruments - your mileage may vary. I always thought that was what was meant by the term "dynamics," but I'm not sure if I'm using the right term. What I mean by that is that on a graph, what I visualize is a greater difference between the quietest instrument or voice and the loudest instrument or voice on a particular song with the new WE's, where the Taks would be even more detailed and finessed, but within a narrower or less dynamic range of volumes among different instruments/voices in a particular song - I think of it as "more compressed" from the Taks, but I'm pretty sure that's not the appropriate terminology, either. I like both tubes!
I liked the Taks best on small ensembles, jazz, piano, and simple vocal type of stuff in general, and like the WE's on everything, including more complex music, also in general. A good recording on Tidal Masters sounds fantastic through both tubes!
Since I've had Tidal to stream hi-res, I haven't even bothered to play any vinyl...
The above and $10 will get you a few gallons of gas, so please take it for what it's worth! For more complex rock and some genres like you mentioned, a good 2A3 amp with WWII RCA (or older) tubes and really efficient speakers might be even more pleasing than 300Bs to some...
Again, FWIW...
BG
k
Yes, I noticed that too! For people who don't know where to find this information, here's a paragraph about the 777 from the WE website:
"Our spacious facility was also designed to sustain new products. In the future, we will expand operations on our 35,000 square foot space to reinstate additional tubes favored in the high-fidelity community and to house ongoing development of our 91E Integrated Amplifier and a new radial AMT driver we're calling the WE 777."
It will be interesting to see what the specs are. Ex. frequency range, sensitivity, etc. Also, given that AMT is an existing technology, maybe it won't cost an arm and a leg?
Gerry
Have the 'late 90's?' Kansas production 300B's and yeas the plates have a black coating.
Lot of talk that the reason that production ceased that Charlie ran out of original materials to make the tunes and had no way to acquire more of the original stuff once he had used up existing stocks.
He seems to have somehow managed to make tubes again but maybe not with anything close to the original Western Electric materials?
From an inside source, who I am obligated not to name, Charlie has enough original material to fabricate 30,000 300B's. Production ceased because the original WE equipment ca. 1930s and 40s kept breaking down and they had to machine their own replacement parts. In the past year, that problem was solved by locating a supplier who was able to replicate the original equipment and provide spare parts, as well.Apparently, during the 2000s they also had more lucrative contracts from the US Defense Department to produce replacement tubes for older radar installations and related equipment. When that equipment was finally withdrawn from service, those contracts ended, so Charlie revived the 300B to keep the business going.
Edits: 05/01/21
Hi Ivan303 Kansas production is not correct. The Western Electric plant was located in Lees Summit, Missouri which is just South of Kansas City,
Missouri. So, it should be 'Missouri production' WECO production.
n
They prolly sound different.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
I have a pair of the 90's WE 300B as well, the new production WE and Takatsuki versions are very pricey. Heard/Read good things about the Elrog versions too.
Hi Rocket Powered, thanks for the feedback! Parts Express has the Taks in stock again with a 1-tear warranty, and the new WEs have a 5-year warranty (if you send the warranty card in timely). If you have music on a lot like I do, the WE with a 5-year warranty kind of helped justify the cost. I'm very pleased with the sound of them, too.
Both sound great, but I have the WE's in my amp playing now.
BG
Please let us know how they turn out after burning in. I'm considering a tube upgrade and am interested how they compare to the Tak 300B's.
@REDM - do you already have Taks...? If not, I can send you mine to audition in your system for 2 - 3 weeks, provided of course you return them to me. They're fantastic - refined and magical!
This forum (the entire AA) has been very helpful to me throughout the years, and you've been on it longer than I have, so I'd be happy to help in this manner.
Let me know if I can be helpful...
BG
Wow! Thanks for the offer. I would have interest, it would be fun to hear them and compare to my Lin Lai WE replicas. Your profile doesn't allow sending you an e-mail. Please send me an e-mail (it should be available on my profile) Bill
@RedM - they're on the way, I emailed you a tracking number.
I live in a tiny town with a lone drop box, so they won't show movement until Monday.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on them...!
BG
Email sent...
BG
Will do, REDM...! I'm very pleased so far, not that I'm shocked, but I am surprised by the quality of sound that I heard during their initial four hours yesterday evening...!
BG
Folks have been waiting for MANY years for Charlie Whitener to produce some more tubes with many wagering that he never would as all of the parts and materials he received when he bought out WE's tube production hand been exhausted.
k
As I understand it, that may well be the most important material issue.
I'd certainly roll the dice again.
After 2 hours and 10 minutes of operation, they sound great already! I've been alternating between the Takatsuki TA-300B and the '98 WE reissue for the last month or so.
I like the Taks for refinement, and like the '98 WE for robustness and soundstage.
I'll report back when these new WE's have more hours, but so far I'm already pleased...! Depth and dimension as well as the tone are already here - can't wait to report when they have more hours on them...!
BG
And dynamic, Ivan - at this point more dynamics than the Tak or '98... But they're less than 2.5 hours in...
BG
And ZERO hum...! :)
Been thinking of rebuilding my DIY HIFI Supply 'Billies' as WE 91A 'Lady Days'.
They currently sit unused along with a nice (maybe) pair of WE 300Bs from Charlies late 90s production.
Even have a pair of Russky 310As.
Right on, Ivan! 310A tubes drive my 300Bs, and I like the combo very much!
BG
Hopefully a better picture of the 2021 plate color...
BG
Wow, amazing. I received an email saying that they were in stock and almost pulled the trigger. I currently have Psvane Acmes and they sound amazing. Please continue to share your impressions. Thank you!
Hi TSWisla,
Thanks for the feedback I've already ordered a 2nd pair of the new WE's... I'm thoroughly pleased with the Graphene 300Bs!
BG
Dull black plates on 1998 reiuue...
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