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I have a long-time client who has an extraordinary system. It is very high efficiency. The problem is the amps. They are Audiopax Model 88 mono-blocks. I don't think I've heard better overall on his system .
However, he wants to have something as a back-up, if not an outright replacement in case these amps break.
Amps we've had in this system (aside from the Audiopax) - all of which sounded very good in certain areas - are Lamm ML-2s, Viva Auroras, Trons, Allnics, Wavelengths, Tom Evans, Art Audios, etc.
Is there an amp - or amps - that I'm missing that stands particularly tall among these?
This is not a trick question... I don't know where to start.
Thanks!
Best regards,
Jim Smith
Follow Ups:
Hi Jim. I talked to you on the phone a couple years ago about amps for my Trios. I have tried a few. But just like you said that I'll probably stay with the Viva Aurora monos, and I have for over 6 years now. I recently purchase a Mactone MA300b. It is a Japanese Stereo Push/pull 300b. Only one week now in my system. Still working with it, cables, ect.. So far very!! impressed. Almost as much slam(but not quite) as with the Viva Auroras.
Thought about KR Audio Kronzillas?
What he builds may be expensive by conventional standards but is custom tailored to fit the clients system. Best sound in show at last years RMAF.
,
hey,
I'm guessing you meant the "best sound in show" was at VSAC and not RMAF. Jeffrey, John Chapman, and myself shared a booth at RMAF, but alas no music was playing.
dave
What is so secure about buying from a "manufacturer" over a real designer that does not limit his part selections to "in production"? In production is usually gone the next year, the manufacture closes doors in two years, and the special security is as usual blown to pieces.
There are many great amp designs not seen in public. The best DIY'ers, and that's really not very many, will outperform those manufactured amps. And often supply a lifetime of tubes and such to get it to go for at least 20 years if built with high quality. Who among the elite purchasers of audio equipment keeps an amp in his system for 20 years?
I suggest looking outside the box, trying to meet with the very best of the ultra-fi gurus, and see if a special amp can be made. Romy got out of Avant-guardes and went to specially crafted wooden horns and expensive drivers and drove them with special amps for those speakers. I doubt there was a bad sound created there. Expensive as hell, but he did it. Well, he commissioned the builds. And he knew exactly what he wanted technically, however.
Custom build requires doing a holistic approach to the system. Pieced together at the component level, it's just going to be components off the rack to try and get synergy to that big block level. It's quite limited in refinement.
-Kurt
Kurt,
About a year or so after I started distributing Avantgarde, some friends urged me to meet Eduardo de Lima (who turned out to be one of the most brilliant and musically sensitive designers I've ever met or heard of).
I listened to his products and was impressed, to say the very least. Amazingly, Eduardo had a a huge number of new, equally interesting and valid ideas in his head.
We agreed that he would gear up from his one-at-a-time custom work in Brazil to meet production levels and that I would be the North American Audiopax distributor.
I blame myself for thinking that he could easily make that jump. If a distributor advertises a product, arranges for the product to be reviewed, and puts on a number of dealers, then if the product is good - and it was spectacular - sales happen.
Plus, he got noticed by other distributors and Audiopax started getting rave reviews around the world. So the delivery issue was compounded.
For various reasons, Eduardo needed to stay in Brazil. So he continued to work in his place there.
AFAIK, I don't think he's in business in any meaningful way anymore.
Sad, because, even one-at-a-time, he had a lot to offer the audiophile community.
I'm not against considering great designs from small companies. In fact, I got this client to buy the Audiopax amps before anything ever really got off the ground. Since service is potentially an issue, it'd be cool to find something at least as good that's not made of unobtainium. Hence my original inquiry.
Best regards,
Jim Smith
I remember visiting his room at thee show around 03-04 and feeling like I had found an oasis of good sound. I am sorry his company did not make it.
Actually this has been good.Turns out Eduardo was directed to look at this thread and he and I have been in contact today.
Looks like the rumors of the death of Audiopax are VERY premature, and simply not true.
Sure don't want to give wrong impression (which I probably had myself).
As I learn more I will post a basic up-to-date statement.
Best regards,
Jim Smith
Edits: 12/11/09
Jim,
There is no doubt that Audiopax makes great sounding gear. As you are aware, to be a successful high-end audio company, you have to do a lot more than just make great sounding gear. As Mike B. pointed out, Audiopax has had issues with poor customer service. They have had other issues as well, including retail prices sky-rocketing in a short time period. It's going to be an uphill climb for Eduardo to resurrect his company. Especially, in light of the current economy. Go to the link below. After six months, this poor guy still can't get Audiopax to fix his amp. It's very unfortunate.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1238172188&read&keyw&zzaudiopax
Audiopax has had issues with poor customer service.Hey Eric,
Yes, they have had issues, some of which prompted my original post. This is part of stepping up to be a manufacturer, although some small one-man shops certainly seem to be able to address those issues. And to be fair, it was intertwined with the financial difficulties emanating from Brazil. Issues that make our recent financial history in the US look like a walk in the park.
They have had other issues as well, including retail prices sky-rocketing in a short time period.
I alluded to this above. The Brazilian currency - in the space of about 2 1/2 years - fell from a ratio (against the US dollar) of 1-to-3.35 to 1-to-1.53.
For example, that would mean that if you fairly priced an amp at x dollars (let's call it $8,000), just two-and-a-half years later, it'd have to sell for $17,440!
The reason I stopped distributing Avantgarde was due to the fact that I had set the US prices when I was paying 86 cents for a EURO. With the dollar slipping badly, by late 2005 I would have had to increase the US prices by 50% for the same models I had been distributing a few years earlier. I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Today it's even worse - at US $1.46! Eduardo hung on way past the point where I gave up on the exchange rate.
I think some things can be done to address these issues if Eduardo chooses to re-enter the fray in the US. Personally, I'm rooting for him and look forward to see what happens.
After six months, this poor guy still can't get Audiopax to fix his amp. It's very unfortunate.
Although I didn't go to the link, there are most likely some unresolved issues out there. In fact, there have to be some. As I said in my reply to Mike B. just below:
So far, I've been able to get amps serviced for my personal retail clients.
If you hear of someone who can't, they can e-mail me: jim @ get better sound . com. The spaces need to be filled in. Or get my e-mail address from my profile.
I might be able to help them.
Best regards,
Jim Smith
Edits: 12/11/09
there is some damage control that should be addressed. I have seen comment by a couple owners unable to access repairs. That being said, I do wish him the best.
So far, I've been able to get amps serviced for my personal retail clients.
If you hear of someone who can't, they can e-mail me: jim @ get better sound . com. The spaces need to be filled in. Or get my e-mail address from my profile.
I might be able to help them.
Best regards,
Jim Smith
nt
That's good to hear. I met Eduardo at the first (or second?) VSAC, years ago, and was impressed then and have continued to be. He's very bright, very practical, and a real gentleman to boot.
Well said!
Best regards,
Jim Smith
Edits: 12/11/09
I met Eduardo De Lima at t.h.e. Show in Vegas in '03-04.
I was drawn into his room by how it sounded outside the hall, and around a corner.
I have always referred to this as the "Take a Shower" effect. Leave your stereo running, and go in and take a shower! If it still sounds good in the shower-- why, it's making music!
Eduardo was unassuming, but you could tell he was very bright, handsome, and a Gentleman. He looked me over and said simply: "These are the world's best amps." "They are because I want them to reproduce music. Don't they play great?"
I couldn't afford them at the time, but I just wanted a pair of those amps.
Why did I want a pair? I just thought the guy was great! He was good, and he TOLD ME SO! Now, I really liked that a lot.... it got the subject at hand-- the fact that Mr. Eduardo was building those classics himself, and was proud of his work-- right out front where there was no doubt-- here was a man who took himself and his equipment seriously, and it showed.
I'll never forget Eduardo. I would just love to see him at RMAF someday. You better believe I'll be there to greet him-- and will probably buy something from him just like I did last time.
---Dennis---
and is just in the process of changing distribution.
These being hard times for high-end audio manufacturers.
I thought his business had pretty much ceased, based on the lack of contact the latest US distributor had with him.
I hope you are right and that I am mistaken.
It'd be cool for Eduardo to reassert Audiopax in the US.
Best regards,
Jim Smith
See reply to Mike B. above.
Best regards,
Jim Smith
Hi Jim,
The Cyrus Brenneman Cavalier Plus sounds very good with my high efficiency loudspeakers. It's also very quiet.
Everyone is absolutely convinced that the amp they recommend is the best choice, hands down. :)
And in another consistent finding, nearly all have their own favorites, nearly all different. :)
But that's not surprising really. In fact, it's good that we have choices.
I've been in touch with several of the folks that have been recommended. Great guys.
Thanks for all the replies and for the surprising number of e-mails.
Best regards,
Jim Smith
It is CLEARLY the best sounding amp I have EVER heard!! Absolutely no other audio amplifier even comes close.
And at only $87,000 (per monoblock, two required for stereo) plus tubes, it's really a bargain as well.
The Ivan Model 303 is hand made per order and is available built on a cake pan, but that will add a few dollars to the cost.
Please let me know what you decide, your customer will not be disappointed!
It's not too far afield from some of the replies & e-mails I received.
So you just about nailed it!!!
Best regards,
Jim Smith
"One listen to these babies and you're toast. Many of the other amps we've heard are great. But this one’s playing in a new league it started, all by itself. That's why we're gonna make it easy for people to try out a pair at home. Everyone who listens to it knows just what we mean."
Remember that one? Not that I would disagree, mind you, Eduardo is a friend and I love his amps.
Link Below(scroll down page to Manufactures reply)
I do remember it. I was sooo excited . And I really wanted everyone to be exposed to Eduardo's concepts.
Problem was, we couldn't get nearly enough product for that plan to ever work. And you are right - I was just like every one else who thinks they've found the holy grail of amps.
I had dreams of him making lots of them, but Eduardo, God love him, just couldn't make the jump from small custom house to manufacturer. It was probably wrong of me to expect it of him.
I still think his amps were very special and I compared them to all the ones I listed above and more. In fact, that's what drove the original post. His amps are the best I've heard in this client's system, and we listened to dozens. But we need a great back-up plan, if not an exit strategy, as service is harder to come by these days.
I only know of one guy that I trust to touch them, and although he is great, we could run into parts issues at some point down the road.
Best regards,
Jim Smith
nt
Cut-Throat
It's rather simple old chap, no need to faff around with all those gu$$ied up try hards..... if ZERO compromise, State of the Art, entirely bespoke componentry and nonpareil fidelity are required then have a natter to Joe Roberts and see if you can get an ear onto the Silbatone Reference 300B, or for that matter the Ji-300 Mk.III if money is an issue..... as they say in the flicks, Game Over Dude... Game O V E R !!
"Is there an amp - or amps - that I'm missing that stands particularly tall among these?"
Don Allen's amps...... After seeing names like Audiopax, Lamm, Wavelength, and Art Audio, don't let the reasonable prices scare you..... [-;
...would you be willing to post more information about Don's amps? It would help us to see photos of all the Don Allen amps you own, with basic information such as prices, power output, tube types used etc. Also any technical information like use of feedback, regulation and so on, and comments on the sound relative to well-known amps like Dynaco, Cary, Wright or whatever.
Given that Don doesn't maintain a website, this would also be a service to him, to help generate more business. For myself, I'm particularly curious about the current version of his PP 6W6GT.
I own the KT-88 SE monos, 10 SET stereo amp, and a 6W6 PP stereo amp. I also own a modified JE Labs 45 stereo amp (used to be a 300B stereo amp) and a modified 45 push-pull amp. All of them are fabulous. I primarily use the KT-88 amps because they have the most juice (8 watts) that's single-ended. I hope to eventually get some KT-88 PP "Bogen" monoblocks (~60 watts) for the main system.
Is the PP-6W6 the recent design with the 12AX7 driver? The one that some describe as combining the best of PP and SE? If so, could we see a picture and/or ask what Don charges for it?
You seem to be saying that you still prefer the sound of Don's SE designs over his PP, as long as the power is sufficient. Am I correct? It also sounds as if Don can do just as well with a SE beam tetrode (KT-88) as with a DHT-SET. Is the KT-88 connected as a triode, pentode, or ultralinear? As far as you know, do your monos use the same circuit (except PS of course) as the stereo SE-KT88 from Don that is now posted in the Classifieds and on Audiogon?
Finally, what is the most important sonic quality in Don's amps that put them ahead of other builders' amplifiers, in your opinion?
TIA,
JJ
"Is the PP-6W6 the recent design with the 12AX7 driver? The one that some describe as combining the best of PP and SE?"Yes it is..... The 12AX7 driver puts the PP just about on par with the SE.......
"If so, could we see a picture and/or ask what Don charges for it?"
I'll send you an Asylum mail with contact info......
"You seem to be saying that you still prefer the sound of Don's SE designs over his PP, as long as the power is sufficient."
I think the iron is more the difference than the topology, in my case........ A lot of it is tube type, as well.
"Am I correct? It also sounds as if Don can do just as well with a SE beam tetrode (KT-88) as with a DHT-SET."
I prefer the KT88 over the 300B, although I have not tried Don's latest 300B....... (Don says the 300B is inherently "microphonic"......)
"Is the KT-88 connected as a triode, pentode, or ultralinear? As far as you know, do your monos use the same circuit (except PS of course) as the stereo SE-KT88 from Don that is now posted in the Classifieds and on Audiogon?"
As far as I know, yes...... The main diff is the power supply......... I think he runs the tubes in ultralinear, based on the power ratings.
"Finally, what is the most important sonic quality in Don's amps that put them ahead of other builders' amplifiers, in your opinion?"
Several items...... One is he uses parts that he and those listening to his products prefer, which rarely coincides with the "audiophile norm"...... (To give you an idea, his amps don't like those expensive "audiophile" caps.) Two, he matches tubes and iron for max measured performance- They must sound good for the right reasons. And three, he designs products "on the fly" (no schematics), and often, circuits that shouldn't work well on paper work incredibly in the real world. These circuits often originate from mundane products that happen to sound great to visitors' ears, and perfects these designs. (The Bogen push-pull amplifier is the basis for his push-pull designs.) The designs are as stable as the Rock of Gibraltar...... Not to mention devoid of hum and noise that often plague SET designs........
The most-important aspect of Don's designs is the prices...... Very reasonable....... Almost too good to be true...........
Edits: 12/10/09 12/10/09
I don't think I ever heard one of his amps.
Sounds really interesting.
Best regards,
Jim Smith
...I'd really like to hear some of Don's work!
the specifications and parts therein.
every year with those awful sounding German horns you used to sell (Just kidding!)
The guy sold a Carbon Fiber TT stand and had these Red Trash-Can Shaped 300B amps that he built that sounded GREAT on those German Horns. Even better than your room one year!
Can't remember his name.
The guy to whom you refer is Mike Maduras, owner of Glass Amplifier Company, and I am alive and well, as is Glass Amplifier Company. The red amplifier "Big Red" that you remember is still in production and is a parallel single ended 300B design that still sings beautifully with the AvantGard Uno/with Duo bottom end speakers. There are other siblings of that amplifier including a single ended PL509 (18 watts) that also enjoys singing with the Uno/Duo speakers. The PL509 amplifier was exhibited at The S.H.O.W. when held at the just opened Best Western Tuscany in 2003. Visitors were wowed with the "emotion" of that amplifier's performance. Glass Amplifier Company continues to produce amplifiers on a custom basis and is represented by Ray Lombardi at Ray of Sound (RJLombardi@aol.com).
Hey Mike!
Nice to hear that all is well with you.
In my case, I seem to have lost some brain cells!
Say hello to Ray.
Best regards,
Jim Smith
but it took a while. See below.
Good to hear you remain above ground!
The guy sold a Carbon Fiber TT stand and had these Red Trash-Can Shaped 300B amps that he built that sounded GREAT on those German Horns. Even better than your room one year!
Can't remember his name.
That was in the Black Diamond Racing room.
He bought a pair of UNOs from me. Those were his speakers that we set up. Sad to say, I can't remember his name either.
They did sound good!
Best regards,
Jim Smith
Mike Maduras of the Glass Amplifier Company at T.H.E. in 2002.
Dave Glackin commented as follows:
"Last year I reported that my experience in this room was the only time that I have liked the Avantgarde horn loudspeakers. That experience was repeated this year."
Who can argue with Dave? ;-)
Actually, the sound in that room that year was stunning!
Link below:
I sold them to him.
Can't believe I forgot Mike's name. :(
Are they still in business?
Best regards,
Jim Smith
Why did you guys call these guys UNOS when there is clearly more the 'UNE' horn?
The UNO already existed when I became the distributor.
The SOLO was conceived as a center channel or surround speaker. Self powered, it was expected to be sold singly, hence SOLO.
The TRIO name is easy - three horn drivers.
The confusion arose because the UNO & DUO looked almost identical. They had the same number of horn drivers (2).
Now back to our amplifier thread. :)
Best regards,
Jim Smith
Lamm way overpriced, IMHO.
I've tried or owned all the mentioned amps plus some not mentioned with the exception of some of the high dollar A. Notes.
One day I was in search for a back up amp when I heard an amp from James Burgess that was really nice. It was a 45 output tube and very impressive sounding for the parts and cost.
So, I got in touch with Mr. Burgess and had him build build me a "cost no object" 45 SET. Still paid less than most of the amps mentioned and it was totally revelatory. Simply the best SET I've yet to hear to this date. He even made the amp so I could roll caps in and out of the signal path.
I'm not saying they're aren't better amps out there because I've yet to hear them all. Although I have heard more than most. I will say that it amazes me that you can build a top notch 45/2A3 SET amp for next to nothing and it still blow away any 300B SET amps at any price!
BTW, I've not heard Mr. Jackson's amps. I tried to get in touch with Mr. Jackson numerous times to commission him to build me an amp but couldn't seem to get a response.
Jim I've met you at your home in Atlanta back in 03 I think it was to audition the Audiopax amps. I'm the old boy from the Mountains of NC that attempted to start an audio business. I remember you taking me to lunch in your Mini Cooper (wasn't long after that I had to purchase one). I think you'll be impressed with the build quality and sound this guy can build. The 45's use the Bugle circuit by Gordan Rankin. Haven't tried a 2A3 from Mr. Burgess yet. If you want to talk more on this let me know.
Hello, Todd...
I am sorry that we were not able to make contact... I replied to your email twice... both times including a phone number... once on 12/10/07 and again a week later on 12/18/07 when I had not heard back from you... at that point, as it was an introductory email, I assumed that you had moved on...
your asylum mail is also not functioning...
again, truly sorry..
Peace,
Me
Jeff, I don't know what happened. My e-mail on this site is an old one and needs to be changed. I rarely post. The only reason I posted this time is to help Jim out who has helped me in the past.
I do know that it was around that time(Dec. o7) that I was having some ISP problems. Damed DSL! I'll have to shoot you another e-mail and try to get something done. I know that the late Terry Cain had nothing but good things to say about you so any friend of Terry's is a friend of mine. Plus, I like the fact you use mercury vapor. Had a Larry Moore 10 squared that used mercury vapor. It was a nice amp. But still I have to give credit to the little 45 amp from James. A real sleeper!
yep.. that happens... no sweat....
and, yeah.. gotta love that blue glow..
901.517.1150
Peace,
Me
Are you saying that your "cost no object" 45 amp used Gordon's Bugle circuit? If so, that's quite an endorsement. What type of OPT did Burgess use?
Nothing real special. One-Electrons. They're better than the James and cost less. OPT are like anything else, you can go crazy and spend as much as you want but in the end what's the best bang for the buck. I know I said "cost no object" and maybe I should have used something like Tamradio,NOS Tango,Audio Notes,etc,etc. Parts can be elusive in that they can make you think that it's all about the part. Parts are a lot of it but not all.
IMHO I think circuit(two stage versus three stage, IT versus cap versus direct coupled and all kinds of other tricks that only experience can provide)is first then OPT then power supply then parts(tubes,caps). Of course power supply and OPT are neck and neck.
I'm not a builder and can do just enough to get into trouble but I've had enough experience listening to different types to know what I like. What I like is really all that matters anyway.
IFF I were unable to build my own *AND* audio could be adequately funded Jeffrey Jackson would get my build commission.
cheers,
Douglas
Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.
Mastersound amps. Jeff Korneff his amps sang on my duos. WAVAC wonderful sound and build but the cost. Still WAVAC where some of the best amps Ive owned. And dont pass up old Nelsons work his 1st watt amps sounded good for sure. All these Ive used on horns over 110db 1 watt no issues all dead quite.
Audio Valve and Cyrus Brenimann. Used amps from these compainies always great sound and the suports there. Good folks run both these. Pic is Doc Gizmos old sunlight se308 concentric I enjoyed my time with them.
Any of the level 3 and up SETs in their Silver Signature (I think) versions would be worth considering. The double C core transformers are a "must" upgrade. Also, as one moves up the line, more and more transformer coupling is added. A fully coupled 300B SET at the 3+ level would be the SS version of the P-4 mono blocks.
"What did the Romans ever do for us?"
Edits: 12/08/09
How much power does he really need? The more, the worse it sounds. Say one watt and I'll build him something the closest to perfection for only $20K. I could really use the money. I have all the unobtainium necessary for this. He'll never find it on his own nor buy such an amp. I'll throw in a lifetime of spare parts. But he won't know it until he commissions it. And he needs to buy me the round trip air fare to his place, plus expenses. Then I need to work on modifying his speakers and my amp to get that interface optimally matched. An extra $20K for that.
-Kurt
.
Sure Einstein Audio OTL's - Just $33K for the pair, but I think you'll like em.
Cut-Throat
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