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I received my Marantz SA-KI Ruby a couple of weeks ago and I'm working my way through understanding how it works. So far, to me, it's a beautiful machine and sounds very, very, good on everything I've thrown at it (not to say every recording sounds good, just good ones sound great, and bad ones sound...well, their limitations in quality are evident).Today I downloaded the free Audirvana trial software, and DSD files (64, 128 and 256) from the 2L test bench website. I've learned a couple of things, but I've also run across a conundrum. I've learned that my Macbook doesn't output Native DSD, but converts to PCM over DoP, only Windows with ASIO code and select custom devices for the Mac OS do Native DSD as I understand it. That was interesting.
So when playing, recordings are reflected as DSD(2.8, 5.6 or 11.2) on the Ruby. Now the conundrum. DSD 64, and DSD 128 play perfectly from the Audirvana interface. DSD 256 however skips like a defective CD. I "searched it up" as my girls say, and it appears to not be isolated to Audirvana, J River has the same issue. Their answer to the issue is that those having the problem have insufficient computing power to do the on the fly conversion of '256. My computer is a 2015 MB Pro, 2.7 GHz Intel Core i5 processor. The JR people insist that's the problem. Audirvana seems to be ignoring the problem, so very Apple like!
So, anyone else here have that issue? I'm just experimenting now, I don't have any recordings purchased in those Hi-Res formats (...yet, though looking at Native DSD and a couple of Mahler 1's to try). What sort of processing power does one need to be able to do the conversion? Would a new Apple Mac Mini do the trick? What level of Windows/Intel PC (GOD FORBID!) would do it? I do have an old Windows laptop I can try it out on as well. That will be a whole new level of fun.
So, getting to know Ruby and how she gets along with my Mac and my SB Touch have been interesting. As always, computer audio for me is much more complex than putting a disc in the drawer, but I'd like to use it all since I have it, and some time to figure it out.
And just for CT, I am looking at the RPi option as my SB Touch gets quirkier and quirkier as it ages. Still sounds great, works most of the time, but loses connection every once in awhile and it gets annoying. I do love the clock though, and really miss it when it goes out (it's a great night light too).
Edits: 10/11/21Follow Ups:
"I've learned that my Macbook doesn't output Native DSD, but converts to PCM over DoP, only Windows with ASIO code and select custom devices for the Mac OS do Native DSD as I understand it."This is incorrect. It's the player software that will either pass native DSD or convert to DoP, AND of course native DSD will only work if your DAC supports it. Some player software are smart enough (over USB) to detect what the DAC will handle and will force DoP (or DSD to PCM conversion) not allowing you to configure for native DSD output if the DAC won't handle it.
I can play native DSD using Roon on my Mac and the Mac will output native DSD over USB to my DAC.... and the DAC will display that it is receiving DSD. Additionally, I can 'stream' native DSD from the Mac over my network to my Raspberry Pi 4 connected to a USB DAC. This will also handle native DSD.
However, I -believe- DSD from a Mac is limited to DSD 256 with the Mac's built-in driver regardless of the software player being used. One exception might be exaSound DACs (and very few others) that provide a proprietary driver for macOS - which can present other problems.
Makes no difference to me though as I play 99% PCM and only experiment with DSD now and then.
Edits: 10/12/21 10/12/21 10/13/21
Output (whether DSD or PCM) is via USB, and the operating system is the current Mac OS Big Sur (11.6). It IS proprietary as you say, but so far, so good (3 or 4 years). exaSound may have an updated ASIO driver available that does DSD 512 (for use with their latest DACs) - I think mine only does DSD 256 (plus DXD of course), which I believe is also the most that my exaSound e38 MCh DAC will support.
There are DAC companies that aren't as dependable as exaSound when it comes to software and driver updates. The drivers require highly specialized technical skill to write and maintain, not for the average coder, and some DAC companies don't have the in-house expertise to update drivers and others aren't willing to pay their contracted consultants to keep drivers up to date.I experienced this first hand with the MYTEK DIGITAL Stereo192-DSD DAC, one of the first DSD DACs on the market. They created a proprietary USB driver for Mac but never updated it for later Mac OS. As a result, the DAC would not support anything over 24/96 PCM via USB. The workaround was to use the DAC's Firewire port but my newer Mac didn't have Firewire so they shipped me a Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter dongle. Not a great solution but it worked.
MYTEK DIGITAL Stereo192-DSD DAC in my office a few years ago.
Edits: 10/13/21
I'm on Big Sur, because it works. Haven't updated in ages. Wondering if that has something to do with my Native DSD issue. Chris is on BS, but has the ASIO capable DAC, so he's good.
You said you're on Big Sur which is the latest, until Monterey is released probably before the end of 2021. Apple may release it or at least mention it during their October 18th event.- My 2012 Mac Mini dedicated for audio is on older Mac OS X El Capitan.
- My other newer Mac Mini, and my MacBook Pro for work are both on Catalina.
- Only my wife's iMac has been upgraded to the latest Big Sur.
Edits: 10/13/21
Ooop. My mistake I'm on High Sierra. I guess I should try to update. Was at the Apple store for a repair today, hard not to walk out with a mini and a 13 Pro...really hard.
This might make you feel better.
Yeah, more toys to consider! Slowly breaking down over the 13Pro, slowly. Mac mini pro huh? Apple store was hopping yesterday I'll tell you...
"Apple store was hopping yesterday I'll tell you...."
The one at our local Park Meadows Mall is always busy, unlike the MS store at the same Mall.
Yup, rumor has it there will be an updated new Mac Mini announced next week along with M1X based MacBook Pros.
.
Sent you a PM...... I'm guessing you don't check that e-mail too often?
Well, that contradicts much of what I read yesterday! So much for clarity. It's not clear then whether the DAC in the Marantz supports native DSD then. Lots of marketing buzz words in the description, so...EDIT: Tried Roon. No native DSD to Ruby. At first use it's much better for me than Audirvana though. Tried my '256 file (DoP 1.0) and Ruby reads DSD 11.2, and no skips, drops or errors. So the J River guy was full of... well it was the player, not the computer.
Guess I'll have to try Roon and see what happens. Roon says Marantz is "Roon tested" whatever that means. Not crazy about the Audirvana interface at first use. It should, I think, but i've not been able to get a direct answer. I can try the Dell/Windows laptop and see what I get on that.
Yeah, all i'm doing is experimenting now myself. Enjoying the new player and all it can do. I've looked around for an RPi 4, but don't know where I can get a complete built unit with USB. All I see at Allo is SPDIF. My patience for experimenting and failing is limited though.
Thinking about a mac mini because I need storage as well and don't want to fuss with NAS or the like for now. Besides, it's time for a new machine anyway.
Edits: 10/12/21
Fired up the Dell. Holy smokes do I hate Windows. After all the startup, shutdown, driver download and install that is typical of Windows...
Connected to the Ruby via Roon and it shows:
Native DSD as an option. Selected it, and the '256 file skips just like in Audirvana.
So, apparently the DAC is Native DSD capable, but not with my Macbook, for whatever reason. Could it be the OS? The hardware? Native DSD does not appear in the device setup menu in Roon, or Audirvana.
Curiouser and curiouser.
Not that it really matters, no freakin' way I'm going to use Windows. The Native DSD sounds the same to me as the DoP using the Macbook.
The Raspberry Pi Board is already built as a Complete Unit with with 4 USB Ports.
Power supply? Case? Software? Is that all available at one location?
Edits: 10/12/21
I was looking for something closer to the Allo Digi line. They have other models, but the price climbs to where I can get a Mac mini to use for streaming and storage. I'm out of space on my Macbook, so I need that too for the DSD downloads in my future.
PiShop.us
ALLO US distributer. Also sell latest RPI4 w/4 or 8 gig mem.
https://www.pishop.us/product-category/raspberry-pi/raspberry-pi-boards/current-pi-boards/
Try the kit below. It has everything you need except the software. Go to Volumio.org to get the volumio software, which has easy instructions. https://volumio.org/get-started/You'll download the Volumio image to your Mac and then burn an SD card with the software. It's all in the instructions. My iMac has an SD port but what you have may not and you'll need a dongle.
Once up and running Volumio will be a UPnP endpoint that can play anything you can throw at it. It is also an Airplay endpoint that will support 16/48 but nothing truly hi-res that is convenient for streaming just about anything from an iPhone. My kids discovered that on their own when they wanted to play something. Audirvana will discover the UPnP endpoint automatically and present it as a speaker option. It is all very easy.
PiCorePlayer is another option but much more complicated. I'll leave it to the fans here on this board if you want to go that route.
Edit: Since I posted this I was playing around in Audirvana and tried upsampling 24/96 to DSD 256 and then 24/44.1 to DSD 512. No problems whatsover although I can feel the heat coming out of the laptop. And that's the other thing, this is off my 2016 MBP with 2ghz dual core, not my iMac with the fast processor. AV outputs DSD 512, Volumio reads it as DSD512 and sends it to the DAC which displays 225.7 (can't see the last digit). The upsampling is processor intensive, which a native DSD file would not be. This is coming in from the net at 225mbps and going back out over the same wifi which is gigabit locally. I have no idea what anybody else in the house is doing with the wifi right now, but my guess is my daughter is watching videos.
Edits: 10/12/21
I play probably the same DSD files from 2L with Audirvana on my 2016 iMac 3.3ghz quad core i5, over the wifi to my RPi4 running Volumio into a Topping E30 DAC without any issues. When I plug the iMac directly into a DAC on my desktop however I do sometimes have issues and I worked around that by using yet another RPi with Volumio over wifi even though it is right in front of the computer.I believe too that AV bypasses the Mac processing of DSD and sends it directly. But DoP is just a wrapper and shouldn't impact the sound, it should still be bit perfect at the DAC. Whatever the case, AV, Volumio and my DAC all show it as DSD256. Polarity by Jan Gunnar Hoff in DSD256 sounds superb.
I've also played DxD 24/384 files without problem, and even upsampled some things to DSD512 from 24/48. Those would play but required hands off the computer as it took all that it had. It would sound good but usually only left it on for a few tracks. The issue is that once you set that upsampling it does everything and I'd just rather leave 24/96 as is.
And to answer the question, your Mac may be just a little too slow. A new M1 Mac should be plenty fast.
Edits: 10/12/21
Try connecting a Pi 4 via USB to your DAC using Picoreplayer. With my Project DAC this combo happily plays DSD 512
As advised to me by Cut throat you have to add 3:u32be to the field titled Output device supports native DSD
Good Luck
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