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In Reply to: RE: Help needed with cable lengths posted by mr.bear on March 24, 2017 at 14:47:15
My advice is not to listen to anyone else, but to listen for yourself to different cables, if the issue is of concern. It is not that hard to try stuff. Then, you can embrace your own beliefs based on what you, not someone else, claims to have heard.None of the manufacturer, reviewer, or audiophile forum denizen claims are based on science or on bias-controlled listening. So, it comes down to a matter of belief and what your own ears tell you. It also may be system dependent, so there are no universal, hard/fast rules you can rely on based what other "gurus" give you, as Moses did with the tablets on Mt. Sinai.
Me. I hear no advantage or disadvantage to short USB cables, and I use a 15 footer, myself, though nothing exotic. I also abandoned my Regen awhile ago. And, specific "optimum" lengths for USB, coax, etc. are just whatever you wish to believe.
Edits: 03/25/17Follow Ups:
Your level headed comment makes perfect sense to me:My advice is not to listen to anyone else, but to listen for yourself to different cables, if the issue is of concern.
But I'm sure your advice goes against what certain self-proclaimed experts know to be best for everyone's system.
Edits: 03/26/17
nt
The notion that well-informed advice is meaningless since personal belief is the determining factor goes against the nature of seeking audiophile advice. Listeners may as well ignore anything said about any device in question, which would make participation in an audiophile forum a pointless endeavor to explore.
You are right but this kind of dismissal of advice in response to request happens far too often in AA of late. This stops any kind of meaningful discussion which seems to be the modus operandi of a few posters (for whatever reason).
Why would anyone pay attention to posts from guys who find the Regen unworthy of use when perhaps a thousand others do use it to improve sound quality from usb attached devices?
The only thing a researcher can do is to consider the source of information and perhaps whether it is credible based on research gathered from other sources. It can be easy to write-off good advice or take-up bad advice if there is no personal effort put into the learning curve of any technical topic. A plug-and-play mentality tends to take the easiest path of resolve, rather than gaining insight from other folk's boots on the ground efforts. It's their own loss if taking the easy way out is the preferable audiophile path.
I agree.
Forums can be a good 'and valid' source of information. As long as the reader is able to filter out 'group think' and 'bias'.
Either way, all print is useful as ref information if nothing else.
As long as we remember that almost all of the information here is subjective. The asylum is good for suggesting paths to take or equipment to try or music to listen too but it still comes down to personal preference.
Alan
Subjective evaluation is the end result, yet there can be very credible insights that are based on a level of consensus, the prevailing wisdom of all things considered to a degree, with an agreement to disagree. A number of audiophiles provide keen insights about various topics and issues with a similar perspective that make this hobby an aesthetic and intellectual resource, as well as a social experience in the process.
Very well said.
Alan
Great!
Trusting your ears is very hard for an Audiophile....cost bias, measurements and all...
Trusting yours ears is not difficult for committed audiophiles. However, whether the judgements are valid depends on whether systematic trials, based on knowhow and knowledge, have actually been carried out.
A statement like 'I use a 15ft usb cable that doesn't hurt SQ' is only valid in that instance of usage; it does not reflect truth that is applicable to other installations. Reasons:-plenty and improper setup is just one of them.
There is plenty of evidence that stock usb cables, not properly terminated, hurts SQ and statements like 'there is no science' are simply based on prejudicial convictions.
Yes sometimes a general method of usage will not provide optimal results in all situations.
Which is why its important to trust your ears.
"Committed Audiophile"...this probably means different things to different people.
IMO, Audiophiles tend to trust that a product of higher cost, produces better sound...for a variety of reasons, some valid, some not.
With this said, from my experience Audiophiles tend to trust measurements, public sentiment and branding more than their ears.
Once you've put together a great system and are still looking for improvements, the changes you are chasing maybe inaudible.
Or if the changes do sound different, deciding which one sounds better may depend on the music or mood of the listener.
Cut-Throat
An interesting issue I've not very posted much about in AA is the use of audiophile cables and power cords for the extreme front end of a streaming audio application. This means the choice of coaxial cable connected from the wall, the choice of power cord for a modem/router, and the Ethernet cable connected from a modem/router to a computer Ethernet port making a profound impact on the sound of a computer audio system for streaming audio purposes. Since a topic such as this can be considered a topic for ridicule by those who have no interest in experimenting for themselves, I tend to watch and wait for the topic to arise in this forum with seemingly little attention to AC delivery and audiophile cabling as corollary interests.
The issue to me has been the trait of not wanting to know what is inside the box. For any system, the box has a transfer function relationship between input and output but some inmates assume perfect relationships and call these 'science' or whatever.
The fact is simply that there is no perfect black box and cabling affects transfer functions. The scientific way to consider the effects is to write down the functional relationships that can affect sound quality and look at each in turn. Since there are too many of them in audio reproduction, the shorter route can be 'trial and error' which is a perfectly acceptable approach in science.
If some inmates don't, or don't want to, find out what I have written about, don't bother responding.
And what criteria do you use for selecting "Audiophile Cabling". Price? Or do you just listen every cable you can get your hands on?Cut-Throat
Edits: 03/26/17
Well I DO have selection criteria!!!!
Digital Cable must be solid core.
No silver plating.
No bare wire.
Must be cheap!
Why no silver? Just curious.
I like silver, just not silver plated copper.
Silver plated copper does not seem to be coherent to me...solid silver sounds great and solid copper sounds great.
nt
I was going to recommend the same thing. Try it both ways and pick the one you like best!
Of course I will try the 2 cabling scenarios but I have limited money and closet-space (to retain the reject cables) and was hoping for a broad idea of what's worked best for folks.
My take-away from the discussion here is that the differences are quite system-dependent and there are not necessarily 'consensus' recommendations.
I've found the differences in digital cabling to be very subtle and reveal themselves perhaps annually, when a cable gets swapped and/or replaced. They don't jump right out at you like swapping cartridges! Ive just experienced that by adding new "universal' disc player to my system and now have 'upgrade-itis' re. my computer audio playback
> My take-away from the discussion here is that the differences are quite system-dependent and there are not necessarily 'consensus' recommendations.
That's par for the course in audio. That's why you really need to try it both ways and decide for yourself.
> I've found the differences in digital cabling to be very subtle and reveal themselves perhaps annually, when a cable gets swapped and/or replaced.
In that case, why worry about it? Set up your system the way that's most convenient for you and concentrate on the music. After all, the common statement from most audio enthusiasts is: "It's all about the music!" If this is really true, why worry about a possible subtle difference that can hardly be heard?
I like Monster Cable interconnects and I use them exclusively in my system. I buy top-of-the-line Monster Cable at discount prices on eBay and I couldn't be happier with the sound of my system. Most of my friends who spend thousands of dollars on audiophile interconnects never seem to be happy with the sound of their systems. Therefore, you probably need to get back to the music and quit worrying about whether a shorter or longer USB cable might make a subtle difference that's nearly impossible to hear anyway. Simply buy the length cable that fits your needs and be done with it.
Good luck,
John Elison
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