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In Reply to: RE: Just to clarify posted by barrows on July 03, 2012 at 20:21:46
with this?
'These are some of the issues you get with 'driverless' or 3rd party driver installed hardware on the 'Sometimes Universal Serial Bus).'
If you read what people say here and elsewhere, they do have propblems and pulling switches, installing alternative usb drivers etc should be an 'easy' part of the setup.
Follow Ups:
"I blame yourself." (Actually he said, "I blame myself" but in this case I'll make an exception. I won't blame myself.)
We put a switch on the unit so that it would be compatible with any computer made in the last ten years or fifteen years. If you are using any Mac OS prior to Snow Leopard, or an older version of Linux, or don't want to install any drivers for Windows, then just set the switch for Class 1 USB Audio. You will be limited to 96 kHz maximum sampling rate, but this is not much of a limitation in the real world. Probably less that 0.001% of all music ever recorded is even available at resolutions higher than 96 kHz.
On the other hand if you want the capability to go to 192 kHz then you need Mac Snow Leopard or newer, a newer version of Linux, or install the Thesycon driver in Windows XP or newer (or maybe Microsoft will include it as part of Win 8). You also have to flip the switch on the back.
It's really not a big deal and it makes the unit compatible with any computer that has a USB port (which is pretty much every computer made for the last ten or fifteen years). I don't really understand why you think this is such a bad idea.
Hi. There is somehow a big misunderstanding that you need Snow Leopard to use UAC2. OSX Leopard also supports UAC2.
Yes, Leopard did support USB Audio Class 2. The catch was that it was still limited to 96 kHz and therefore provided absolutely no advantage over USB Audio Class 1. So if you are looking to go past 96 kHz, you need Snow Leopard or newer.
We were confused (and disappointed) about this too. We had thought that we could come out of the gate with 192 kHz support for at the Apple products, but the QB-9 was released before Snow Leopard. We actually delayed production of the DX-5 (disc player with USB input) until Apple released Snow Leopard and we had negotiated a deal with a Windows driver developer (Thesycon) so that the DX-5 could hit the ground running with support up to 192 kHz.
Leopard does only support UAC2 on the latest update 10.5.8 which came out after Snow Leopard gained support for it in 10.6.4 (I think)
I know this for a fact since 192khz is both selectable in 10.5.8 and my QB-9 says 192 on the display.
Of course all machines that support Leopard also support Snow Leopard, but not all people are comfortable doing the upgrade themselves or feel they really need (just to play some tunes). It is nice to know that their options are just the same as those with newer machines, at least hardware wise. You need to change this on your computer setup guide on the Ayre homepage as a LOT of people use this as reference.
I was unaware of this. Since the Snow Leopard update is only $30, it's not much of an obstacle and there are probably other changes as well. But we try for accuracy, so I will look into this and change it if appropriate. Thanks for the info.
I spoke with Gordon Rankin, developer of the Streamlength asynchronous USB audio connection we license from Wavelength. He said that the problem with Leopard was actually in the feedback pipeline for the asynchronous operation, and not the 192 kHz capability per se.
This was confirmed by our lead technician, Ryan, who has a much better memory than I do. This is what e-mailed to me regarding Leopard operating at 192 kHz:
"When we were developing the QB-9 192kHz, we did have a 10.5.8 computer
that we were using here at Ayre in the form of the Mac Mini. As Gordon
said, it works (displays 192kHz and even plays at 192kHz), but it was
getting occasional popping. This same behavior was also present with
10.6.3. I unfortunately have upgraded the computer to 10.6.4 since
then, so I can't go back to do it now, but I remember very
clearly that it did it then. I also am pretty confident saying that I
doubt Apple had the 10.6.4 fix in 10.5.8, as 10.5.8 was released August
5, 2009 while 10.6.3, which definitely has the problem was released
March 29, 2010 and 10.6.4 didn't come about until June 15, 2010.
"The pop issue we heard wasn't a constant popping, like you'd hear from a
dirty vinyl, but it was definitely there when you listened for an
extended period of time, probably showing up now and again every 3-10
minutes. So it's very possible he thinks it works, when in reality,
he's shorting himself some quality."
So we will leave our recommendation for 10.6.4 or newer on our website setup page. Leopard may work at 192 kHz with an adaptive USB DAC (if such a thing exists, as most people making adaptive USB DACs use the Burr-Brown devices that are limited to 48/16), but not reliably for asynchronous USB at sample rates above 96 kHz. If you own a QB-9 I would recommend either upgrading to Lion or waiting a few months for the next OS that is in the works, Mountain Lion.
The upgrade from either Snow Leopard or Lion appears to only be $20. Mountain Lion will only work with the newer Mac computers. I'm not sure how to upgrade from Leopard to Mountain Lion. It may require an intermediate upgrade to Snow Leopard first. But the general consensus has been that there have been improvements in audio quality in each of the recent releases of the new Mac OS's.
Thanks Charles. IŽll take your word for it, even though I canŽt remember any popping or something like that. (Even Pure Music worked fine)
Snow Leo is what I would recommend anyways as it rock solid.
I am still using Snow Leopard also, although I have to use Windows for all my CAD programs. I am very happy with SL. The change to Lion eliminated the possibility of running in integer mode, which I had found to improve the sound. However most people said that Lion in non-integer sounded better than Snow Leopard in integer.
Now Audinirvana allows Lion to operate in integer mode. This apparently offers the best sound available from a Mac at this time. But Mountain Lion is coming soon, and all bets are off at that point. It could sound better, id could sound worse, it may or may not work with Audinirvana in integer mode, and on and on...
And for what it is worth, I also remember that certain models of Mac were susceptible to the "popping" problem. It was strange as Apple generally uses high-performance hardware for things like the USB peripherals. But some people including our sales manager at the time, Steve Silberman, had popping problems that we could never solve. Other Macs. like the Mini early 2009 version never had a single pop. You may have one of the machines that is immune to the problem.
He could be thrown into the trough of justice....just a thought ;)
This has nothing to do with anything. There are plenty of good 176.4/192k and dsd recordings around that audiophiles go for. Even some of the most originally anti hires inmates here have been buying them by the GB (or TB).
''On the other hand if you want the capability to go to 192 kHz then you need Mac Snow Leopard or newer, a newer version of Linux, or install the Thesycon driver in Windows XP or newer (or maybe Microsoft will include it as part of Win 8). You also have to flip the switch on the back.''
Many use PCs, and dacs with multiple inputs plus usb provide one stop drivers that just work.
If I am following your posts correctly, your opinion is that it is better to:
a) Have a USB DAC that REQUIRES a driver installation to even operate.
than:
b)Have a USB DAC that will operate up to 96 kHz with no driver installation required, or by flipping a switch operate up to 192 kHz with Mac and Linux and only require a driver installation with Windows.
If that is what you are saying, I strongly disagree as flipping a switch is a much easier thing to do than install a computer driver.
In any case we are both entitled to our own opinions. There is no "right" or "wrong" answer to this situation. As always, the final decision is up to each customer to make.
Many use PCs, and dacs with multiple inputs plus usb provide one stop drivers that just work.
True. And the most reliable of those USB drivers is probably Thesycon's. Your suggestion, made here and elsewhere, that it is anything else is, to be polite, ill-informed.
If I had the money, I'd buy an Ayre DAC tomorrow. Apart from its reputation for fine sound, one reason for my choice would be that its Windows driver is, from experience (yes, unlike you, I use it and know it), rock solid.
The OP has a minor config issue that has either been resolved already or will be pretty soon. Designer bashing is inappropriate here.
This is typical of your posting on the back of what others should have responded, in this case Charles Hensen.
If you want to play games, do it with yourself, or with 2-3 others here.
This is typical of your posting on the back of what others should have responded
You really are an insolent little troll. Charles Hansen dealt with the specific issue of his own product; Steve and I pointed out that your remarks about wider use of the Thesycon driver ("I have warned about 'driverless' and 3rd party driver USB audio devices . . .; "These are some of the issues you get with 'driverless' or 3rd party driver installed hardware on the 'Sometimes Universal Serial Bus . . .) were not made any more correct by being repeated.
In fact, you've talked gobs*** about the Thesycon USB driver in recent posts in this forum, in AA Digital and, IIRC, on DIYAudio. Your latest comment was just one too many. You clearly know absolutely nothing about the product and are misleading list members.
To correct the record, the driver works and works well. So, if I may, I'll borrow your aphorism - Get Lost.
How many times have you posted on the merits of cMP?
There is little basis to what you advocate, not even with the use of decent audio equipment.
Gee Fred what happened to:
If inmates find a big difference, I believe them instead of preach at them.
Ryelands, myself and many others did find big differences with the cmp2 recipe. But somehow you seem to preach at us. What a crock.
You never actually said you created a cmp2 box and listened to it.
DID YOU ACTUALLY BUILD ONE?
Or do you just know without hearing them how things sound??
I am guessing the latter. Fred just knows without listening....
Afterwards we discovered faith; it's all you need
A troll who accuses others of trolling
Damn - I seem to have mislaid my fly swatter.
Examine your brain
What I and others wouldn't [buy] is down to us.
True. But what's not down to you is the right to belittle products you know nothing about. I say the Thesycon driver (it's not a USB DAC BTW) is rock solid because I and dozens of others (inc, I note, Steve) have installed it and forgotten about it: it works day-in and day-out without trouble. As indeed a driver should.
You have no grounds for undermining the product, not that'll stop you trying.
no grounds for making the accusations. You read what you want to into what I said but this is down to your own pysche.
I've had no issues with Thesycon driver with W7. The Ayre uses Streamlength USB that is solid in performance.
really this simple. Good man-machine interfaces are newcomer (and even old comer) proof. It is not beyond a manufacturer to provide a one stop solution. Making excuses for this that or the other when inmates have trouble is more troublesome than bundling a simple install solution, or installing a switch which says MAC/PC/Linux input.If you don't need or want it for a narrowly focused set up, fine. However, judging from the no of posts of people having issues with switches and the ability to follow long instructions (read them), there has been an issue.
Edits: 07/04/12 07/04/12 07/04/12 07/04/12 07/04/12
If I understand you correctly, you don't like the Ayre QB-9 because of the switch for Full Speed USB or Hi Speed USB.
All I can say, is that I was able to master this concept relatively quickly, and enjoyed listening to this fine DAC on my system.
Based on the no of people who had issues and who asked for help here and elesewhere, and based on the number of assertions that there are no issues by inmates here, I'd say that is a human interface issue and that it should be 'sorted' vis installation software.
> > > Good man-machine interfaces are newcomer (and even old comer) proof
1) You recommend the Wyred: ""As soon as I selected the Wyred4Sound DAC2 in the sound devices window, the iMac crashed." NOT;
2) There is an entire thread discussing the merits of ignoring your (trolling) posts.
the article is so confusing throughout that I concluded it was the writer.
Six Moons is an advertorial based 'journal?'
"Good man-machine interfaces are newcomer (and even old comer) proof"
Funny how you're willing to make an exception to "support" your weak argument.
Ciao.
nt
''True. And the most reliable of those USB drivers is probably Thesycon's''
Show us the basis for saying this. Certainly there are more issues posted here than with other recent usb dacs.
What you want to buy it's up to you. What I and others wouldn't do is down to us.
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