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In an ideal world they should be able to swing, to convey emotions,
to scat with ease and confidence, to improvise, to have a good voice,
to have good phrasing and timing abilities.
Where are they gone?
Actually they are a few but not many, the ones that come to mind
are Tierney Sutton
Dee Dee Bridgewater
Deborah Tanguy.
Follow Ups:
Former Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart said of pornography that he couldn't define it, but knew it when he saw it. I think something similar could be applied to "jazz singer", a term which could readily be applied to the likes of Louis Armstrong, Red Allen, Jack Teagarden, Doc Cheatham, Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, Carmen McRae, Sarah Vaughan, Jimmy Rushing, Joe Williams, Shirley Horne, Mark Murphy, Jackie Paris, Chris Connor, Helen Merrill, Anita O'Day, Sheila Jordan, Carole Sloane, Lambert, Hendricks & Ross, Mary Stallings, Betty Carter, etc., etc., etc. (Not being included in this list does not mean I don't think others qualify.) Although not all of them were/are jazz singers all the time-some crossed over to popular music on occasion, others to the blues-it would be difficult to say these were not great jazz singers. And then there is another group, headed by Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, Bobby Short, Blossom Dearie, Jackie & Roy, Peggy Lee, Tony Bennett, et al, who are in my humble view primarily great interpreters of great American popular songs, but who often blur(red) the line between pop and jazz. Frankly I could listen to all or any of them all day long without worrying too much about categories. Among current singers, or at least those who seem to get the most attention, I find some of them far too mannered too much of the time for my taste (Patricia Barber, Cassandra Wilson, Dena Derose, Diane Schuur), but I do like Karrin Allyson, Diana Krall (at times), Dee Dee Bridgewater (when she's not overdoing it). Unfortunately I'm not familiar with a couple of those you mention, but I should check them out.Out of curiosity is there a reason why you mentioned only women? And I'm not so sure I'd rate "scat" anywhere close the need to swing and to interpret lyrics in a personal way.
Musicality. Believeability. Control. Proper phrasing. Swing. Je ne sais quoi.
I can think of two who express emotion marvelously, but who you conspicuously left out! I guess because they don't scat a lot, at least not in the traditional sense. I won't mention this to them though, even if I get the chance.I agree with you on Tierney Sutton, also on Rene Marie. The new Dena de Rose is sensational. You don't appreciate Karrin Allyson as much as I do, but I love her voice and her style. I've always liked Dee Dee Bridgewater, the way that she approximates Ella's style especially.
I think we have to differentiate style a little. There are ballad singers who do not scat or improvise much, but who are marvelous vocalists who sing in an improvisational context - that is they let the musicians carry the improvisational duties. Someone like Shirley Horn (I really only have patience for her up-tempo numbers. Her up-tempo is a nice slow ballad). Jacintha also comes to mind. I don't think you favor her, but I can listen to her voice for hours - smooth as silk, and perfectly complimented by her arrangements.
I did not leave out anybody on purpose, I just gave an example of some ladies that do have most of the qualities mentioned.
The problem that I have is that very few female singers seem to be able to sing jazz in my interpretation of the word "jazz"
(Please note the word "my interpretation")
I must also point out that some singers are better when seen live.
Dee Dee Bridgewater must be the ultimate example, this lady is pure dynamite on stage.
Others like Karrin Allyson and Jacintha are more suited to listen
at home, the music is comfortable although not exiting, I do admire
their voice quality and talent, but sometime I wish I could turn them into wild women, maybe this is the wrong word?
But you know what I mean.
Last month when I went to this Jazz club in Paris and watched Deborah Tanguy, it dawned on me that for the first time in years
I was watching a real jazz singer, her timing and swing ability
was just phenomenal, she also scats so gracefully.
Everybody in the audience had a smile on their face, all of them where tapping their feet or clicking their fingers,the audience participation was total.
Make no mistake I am not saying that she is the ultimate jazz singer,
she is very young (26) but the huge potential is there.
I realized that night that this type of singer is rare.
And now I just wish they would be more of these.
To me (at the moment) the best example of it must be Kurt Elling.
He can do the lot and with such confidence.
We all have different tastes and I accept that, but since that night
I am looking for something else!!
While typing this email I am listening to Dee Dee live at Yoshi,
just bought it yesterday, it is phenomenal, this is what I am looking for. Jazz
BTW: I do like Shirley Horn but sometimes I wish somebody with light a fire under her "piano stool"
nt
some are mentioned below in other posts. one of them isnt necessarily being female. there are many girls now doing a great job like renee marie, suzy arioli, dina krall (but only on the sessions at w.54th video and the live in paris where she's much more human than her polished CDs), diane schuur, and many others.
the boys include kurt elling, freddy cole, giacomo gates, kevin mahogany, and again, many others.
ive only included living guys and gals because they are the ones who will shape the future.
when they draw you in and give you the essence of the music, they are a good jazz singer.
......regards.....tr
Your comments made me realize that somehow male singers like Kurt Elling and Kevin Mahogany do have all the required qualities.
Somehow they seem to be so many more female singers and very few of these, seem to sing jazz the way it I would like it to be.
Most of them have lost direstions it seems.
Maybe they are giving the public what they want?
Easy to the ear "Jazz" maybe it could be called "Pop Jazz"
BTW: Renee Marrie is doing a great job. "This is jazz"
has all of those things.
Huh!! We are obviously not on the same wave length!
Are you her agent?
She does all those things you mentioned impeccably.
You must have different cds than mine, I only have the Coltrane ballads and her latest, sounds pretty soporific, contrived and boring, I agree about the nice voice and the phrasing though!
Which cd should I listen to?
nt
Since when was finding a singer boring a snob reaction? I don't claim to know a whole lot about jazz, but I know that Karryn Allison puts me to sleep. Diana Krall doesn't (now, if I were a jazz snob, would I admit to being a Diana Krall fan?)
You don't like Karrin Allyson and like Diana Kraal. Great. Who asked? Do you like Patricia Barber or Norah Jones? I don't care either. How pretentious of some, to insult artists, that they know others on this board admire. I am 60 years old, born and raised in Manhattan and have seen many of the great musicians perform in tiny clubs, live, before most of us knew they were great. If I were to write a list of the great artists that were panned as "not jazz" or for a number of other reasons, by professional critics, audiences, friends and me, you too would realize that self appointed critics have no credibility. It seems incredulous to me that people who supposedly like jazz and want it to succeed, attack artists with obvious talent, because they are not necessarily to their liking. Sounds like a snob to me.
We all have our favorites, Karrin it not my type of singer this is all.
At the end of the day I don't care if they become famous or not,
Britney Spears is famous and making lots of money but means nothing to me, and if you considered snobbish for me to describe her music as terrible then it is your problem not mine.
If you've been to so many gigs during your life surely some of them appealed to you more than others.
My question was "What's make a good jazz singer" and I gave what I consider important. I did not hear all these attributes in Karrin singing.
Surely we can all have our opinions
All I know is that if I had the opportunity to go to 2 shows tonight and I had to choose between Karrin and Dee Dee, I know where I would go. They are MILES apart in style, and at the moment this is what I am looking for. Now what is wrong with that!
You most probably would go to listen to Karrin this is your right,
You may dislike Dee Dee singing and I can understand it to.
Please cheer up! You are taking it too seriously this is only a forum were we can share our opinions, and put forward our likes and dislikes.
0appeal to different people when morgana king SINGS, i find her interesting. when she starts to MOAN, turn it off. and she always starts to moan so i just dont start. her style and delivery and even the moaning TALKS to some people but not others.
i like karrin and notice that she has different delivery styles, shes adaptable. i cant get past jimmy scott and his female voice. some love it, i cant stand it. shirley horn is a pinnacle. she CAN stretch a tune because she has the skill to make it work. i cant speak for jimmy, i just wont listen to his work. thats a strong personal preference.
we should be able to agree to disagree.
......regards.....tr
I bought KA's Ballads CD and liked it OK but was really impressed after seeing her live at the Catalina in LA. I think you might change your mind after seeing her live as she is not soporofic at all.BTW if you find KA soporific I presume that you don't care for either Shirley Horn or Jimmy Scott both of whom have been known to stretch a tune.
"You are taking it too seriously this is only a forum were we can share our opinions, and put forward our likes and dislikes".
if the demand was out there to hear them. Most of the so-called "jazz" vocalists making records right now are trying to SELL records and, as a result, have seriously dumbed-down the artistic and expressive elements of their styles. There may be other elements at play, but there is simply NO WAY that I'd be comfortable with the idea that "humans can't sing this way anymore" -- it is definitely a cultural thing.
Cultural or commercial ?
which, for me, includes "commercial" influences, but others as well (less music education, decreased availability of performing venues/audiences, no "peer support" in younger generations). None of these "voids" is helped by the flood of mindless images being brought forth through the mass media. Talk about anti-reinforcement :-)
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