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1.36.4.172
Groel was the drummer in Nirvanna.
Rick Beato comments
Follow Ups:
I haven't thought about it that way, but I guess I could go along with it. Unlike Cobain though, she has seemingly embraced her fame. I've posted elsewhere that she's been a welcome new talent and role model for the younger folks. You have love that she (really "they" factoring in her brother's part) did this without all the usual music industry bullshit. That had to help allow her to be free, and genuine.
FWIW, one my newest treasures is the all analog recording (Direct to Acetate) of the acoustic set she did at Third Man Records. Certainly a bit less edgy done acoustically. Of course, that edginess on her WWAFAWDWG album is partly what won me over in the first place.
Yeah, I'm a big fan!
marc g. - audiophile by day, music lover by night
I like Rick Beato, but he sure can stretch things for YT hits.
Dave Grohl is just growing into an elder Rock Star that has a lot to say, like so many of them.
They can form a band called Grain of Salt with revolving musicians like Ringo's All Starr Band.
IF they have the chops.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
pain projected in Kurt's lyrics and the ferocity of his musical persona, originality of his combination of smash mouth sound and screamed lyrical anguish--- but this is inherently a silly comparison. Imagine Kurt on the cover of GQ? Now, one thing is true, both have dyed hair.
Grohl is wrong? You say that as an absolute - what is your music background? I mean Grohl was in Nirvana and worked with Kurt and probably knew him as well as most anyone.
You have not made a coherent argument here that I can understand. You say I should remove:
1. Extreme emotion
2. Pain projected in Kurt's lyrics
3. the ferocity of his musical persona
4. the originality of his combination of smash-mouth sound and screamed lyrical anguish
So do we remove these - I guess I don't follow what you're saying.
It can be argued that Billie possesses point 1 and 2. Billie's not grunge but emoption and pain are hardly the sole domain of Grunge. Other genres have it and so does Billie.
Point 3 doesn't make sense - being a suicidal drug head doesn't make you a better singer/artist. No extra credit for substance abuse.
And 4 I'd accept your case but that really isn't a positive differentiator as smash-mouth isn't a positive to me.
It's two different kinds of music - yes - no one is saying otherwise but Beato does make the comparisons, and correctly so, as to how they are similar.
Perhaps I am a softy and because I like the girl I root for her. I don't actually have any albums or anything. But when Paul McCartney is a fan and a Nirvana bandmember it gives her cred - it does not mean that people should like her music because they do - music is personal taste.
I never liked:
Nirvana
Led Zeppelin
Metallica
The Rolling Stones
I don't hate them but I would not rush out and buy an album or go to their concert. They hurt my head after a few tracks. Weirdly though I can listen to AC/DC with no problem. So go figure.
She's a nice kid and I wish her success. I also like a video of her responding to fan covers. She's sweet - it's just no my kind of music really either.
.
Gsquared
Billie Eilish = a mumbling new wave Alanis Morissette
she even looks like she could be her daughter
with regards,
This is where we agree - I am not a fan of mumblers - but then Bob Dylan is a mumbler and people love him and most of the grunge music - you would need to read the liner notes to understand a god damn thing they're singing.
I usually understand what Billie is singing - the young 20-year-olds who dig her still have their hearing. No hope for the 60 years olds on this board. WHAT? Speak Up? I can't hear what you're singing? You're wispy and I can't HEAR IT!? Bah - get off my lawn these kids with their green hair and their melancholy - What's it all about?
She is technically good at what she does - but her voice, I get, is not everyone's cup of tea. It's not my cup of tea because I am a bit older school and I prefer a more traditional kind of singer like Eva Cassidy or Ella Fitzgerald, Celine Dion, Mariah Carey, or Whitney Houston, Heart etc. It's not easy to be someone who grew up with the big ballad vocals (the belting vocals) to get into someone like Billie Eilish. You have to search the net pretty hard to find her belting vocals.
And they do exists so she frustrates me a bit - especially when her inspiration is the singer Aurora who has a sublime voice - much MUCH better than Billie's and I like her songs much more and yet almost no one knows Aurora.
And as an English teacher in Hong Kong using music to teach the language I appreciate more clear singing voices with annunciation. So I prefer Aurora and even Avril Lavigne who is crystal clear and easy to understand. And almost always is fully dressed unlike most of what is out there. No gyrating butts and songs about tits.
I would listen to Aurora over Billie Eilish all day every day. Billie to me is more of a combination of Visual Artist/Singer. So for me, Billie needs to be appreciated in the modern music video world.
Aurora sells tickets standing on a stage singing.
Am really enjoying reading the back and forth posts on this comparison.
Especially as all the comments come from a male's perspective.
Dr. Hornicker: What are you doing here honey? You're not even hold enough to know how bad life gets.
Cecilia: "Obviously, Doctor, you've never been a 13-year-old girl."
"The Virgin Suicides"
Cheers!
Jonesy
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
You raise a great point - Billie is not music targetted to us - and Dave Grohl has a 13-year-old daughter so he is partially looking at Billie through his daughter's eyes.
Still, empathy is the ability to put yourself in other people's shoes and try to see the world from different perspectives.
Add in a new generation with different belief systems than us old geezers and she speaks to her generation. Her music isn't really meant for us. And perhaps our generation isn't meant to get it or like it. People want her to be something they like or they understand. The older generation hated the Beatles after all.
d
That's a point - but my point is we can't be using the external stuff like this. Ty Cobb was a horrible racist jerk and a great baseball player - lots of great baseball players were also kind hearted soles.Kurt Cobain has edgy messaging and he wasn't sweet.
Billie Eilish is sweet but her music is still edgy messaging.I think you have to take the art as it is and leave the persona off stage out of it.
I mean this seems to me to be a Grunge Kind of song lyrically and visually. The only difference is that Billie isn't SCREAMING into the microphone at the top of her lungs but this is actually more "creepy" "suicidal" by not singing like that.
I mean lyrically, visually she is not some "I like big butts or I kissed a girl and I liked it" pop singer.
Sample lyrics from "Bury a Friend"
"Say it, spit it out, what is it exactly?
You're payin'?
Is the amount cleanin' you out
Am I satisfactory?
Today, I'm thinkin' about
The things that are deadly
The way I'm drinkin' you down
Like I wanna drown, like I wanna end meStep on the glass, staple your tongue (Ahh)
Bury a friend, try to wake up (Ahh-ha)
Cannibal class, killin' the son (Ahh)
Bury a friend, I wanna end meI wanna end me
I wanna, I wanna, I wanna end me
I wanna, I wanna, I wanna-What do you want from me?
Why don't you run from me?
What are you wondering?
What do you know?
Why aren't you scared of me?
Why do you care for me?
When we all fall asleep, where do we go?Listen...
Keep you in the dark, what had you expected?
Me to make you my art
And make you a star and get you connected?
I'll meet you in the park
I'll be calm and collected
But we knew right from the start
That you'd fall apart 'cause I'm too expensive
Your talk'll be somethin' that shouldn't be said out loud
Honestly, I thought that I would be dead by now (Wow)
Callin' security, keepin' my head held down
Bury the hatchet or bury your friend right nowFor the debt I owe, gotta sell my soul
'Cause I can't say no, no, I can't say no
Then my limbs all froze and my eyes won't close
And I can't say no, I can't say no...
Couple the lyrics to the visuals and it's something I'd expect from Goth death metal. People have dark feelings that don't come out. Note: Most neighbours of serial killers are surprised and shocked because he was "such a nice guy."In the above post, I noted that many artists are combining the visual arts with music so it's a "complete package" kind of thing. It's not like the old Nirvanna days of dudes on a stage playing a song. More artists today make the visual arts integral to their music.
This video for example, in combination with the lyrics, isn't exactly mainstream "I kissed a girl and I liked it" pop.
I mean this is a clear homage to The Doors and "People Are Strange" musically not lyrically.
Edits: 06/27/21 06/27/21
trying to score points with his daughter, something I'm very familiar with as my 20-year-old continually texts me new music to listen to. Almost all of it is highly derivative, and I don't mean just sampling. It's damn close to outright mimicry. Was Alanis Morissette the new Janis or Hynde or Exene? It may just be impossible to compare artists; impossible to do so for talented ones, anyhow. Travolta: the new Astaire? McConaughey: the new Newman? :-)
I personally hate comparing art because Art isn't sports. In competitive sports, there is usually a very clear winner. Team A score 8 points team b score 2 - team A won.
Why people feel the need to carry it over to the arts is odd to me. Van Goh beat up Renoir - huh? It's like the dopey singing and dancing competitions (or figure skating) where the artistic elements are subjective enough to cause fan outcry when the judges were clearly paid off.
The longer the species continues the more derivative everything becomes because there are only so many options a musician has to play with. A female singer with a lot of Vibrato can be compared to Stevie Nicks and umpteen others who use a lot of Vibrato. Part of why I gravitate to more unique vocals than classically trained excellent singers who sort of sound a bit too excellent and thus sound the equivalent of being airbrushed.
With Cobain and Billie - I get the comparison Grohl is making for their respective audiences - I also get why some won't buy it because the genre of music is entirely different from each other as are their vocals, sex, generation etc.
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