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or ... "Why Not to Hang the TV on the Wall!"I've posted about my journey with the Rooze setup over the past couple years and it continues to be working amazingly well. Over the past year I've sorted out a process for Dirac Live calibration that results in proper polarity and Impulse Response correction. I've moved the 3.7's closer to the front wall, tweeters close to the side wall, with adjustable oak baffles on the leading edges, and polycarbonate reflection panels on the side walls.
The latest step was to replace my 12 year old Panasonic 58" plasma with an LG CX 77" OLED. The Panasonic was 4ft from the front wall, but I decided for reasons of 4K resolution and cinematic field of view to place the LG 5ft from the front wall. This also brought the CC5 center another foot forward.
Everything about this setup worked spectacularly well as expected. What I didn't expect was the improvement in stereo imaging. But it's understandable. The TV now blocks - or more precisely delays - reflections from the rear waves of the 3.7's and CC5. I think all of this serves to reduce the ill-effects of Interaural Crosstalk. The stereo image is as wide (sometimes wider) as the room and very deep. 7.1.4 Atmos is epic! And at 9ft from MLP, the 77" TV has the field of view of a 120" on the wall :-)
Agilist, Musician, Photographer, Audiophile
Magneplanar: 3.7, CC5, MC1, DWM; Outlaw: UltraX12, LFM-1C; Emotiva: XMC-1, PA-1; Nord: Nord One NC500DM; Outlaw: Model 7500; OPPO 205
Edits: 06/18/21Follow Ups:
I can kind of imagine what you're hearing. Once when I was rearranging the dust in my listening room I stood a 2-ft by 6-ft absorber panel that had been hanging on the wall behind my seat to a position between my Maggies. The panel was between the speakers, on the same plane as them and parallel to the front wall. I turned on some music to clean by and heard a wonderfully spacious soundstage. The panel was blocking most of the direct reflected sound from the front wall. What I was hearing was from the front of the Maggies and what was from the back of the speakers reflected off the side walls. I didn't leave it there because it was directly in front of the rack holding my kit. The speakers were in a "usual" position with some toe-in.
I also tried putting the absorbers between the speakers perpendicular to the front wall. Basically anything you do to delay the back wave while still leaving the energy in the room, will affect the depth and clarity of the image. The most inobtrusive way is to get a lot of true diffusion on the front and side walls behind the speakers.
I heard the 30.7 "for Condos" demo in a relatively small basement room with lots of Vicoustic diffusers and they sounded great!
Agilist, Musician, Photographer, Audiophile
Magneplanar: 3.7, CC5, MC1, DWM; Outlaw: UltraX12, LFM-1C; Emotiva: XMC-1, PA-1; Nord: Nord One NC500DM; Outlaw: Model 7500; OPPO 205
I'm remodeling the room and the equipment rack will no longer be up front between the speakers. I'll give that panel in the middle (parallel to the front wall) along with the absorber panel on the wall behind my chair a listen. I also have some diffusors for the front wall to add to the mix.
It's worth taking a day with a couple pieces of music you know very well, and doing some experiments to see what is audible and what is not.
I think what you'll find is that there are SO many variables in a room that you can't say any one arrangement is "right". But you will like some better than others.
I never would have imagined that pointing the speakers 45 degrees to the side wall would sound better than pointing them at me ... but I listened, put them back, listened, waited a couple weeks ... put them back and listened some more and waited months ... put them back and listened ...
And there they are ... still pointed at the wall :-)
Agilist, Musician, Photographer, Audiophile
Magneplanar: 3.7, CC5, MC1, DWM; Outlaw: UltraX12, LFM-1C; Emotiva: XMC-1, PA-1; Nord: Nord One NC500DM; Outlaw: Model 7500; OPPO 205
Pointed at the wall you say? Oh great, another variable to explore, LOL
Yes look at the top-down view and see where the 3.7's are pointed 45 degree bank shot off the Lexan on the side walls :-)
Agilist, Musician, Photographer, Audiophile
Magneplanar: 3.7, CC5, MC1, DWM; Outlaw: UltraX12, LFM-1C; Emotiva: XMC-1, PA-1; Nord: Nord One NC500DM; Outlaw: Model 7500; OPPO 205
Just curious, have you tried it without the TV in there?
Not completely without the TV. I had the opportunity when I swapped out the old TV, but I had a friend helping so I couldn't take time for listening while the space was empty.
I had the 58" plasma 2ft from the front wall and moved it toward me a so it was 4ft from the front wall, and had it that way during the couple years of Rooze evolution ... which also involved repositioning speakers +/- 2ft.
Being very familiar with that sound, with the larger TV pulled even further toward me (5ft from front wall) such that most of the rear wave goes behind it ... resulted in a definite change for the better.
Agilist, Musician, Photographer, Audiophile
Magneplanar: 3.7, CC5, MC1, DWM; Outlaw: UltraX12, LFM-1C; Emotiva: XMC-1, PA-1; Nord: Nord One NC500DM; Outlaw: Model 7500; OPPO 205
Since it looks like you're willing to experiment with room treatment I wonder what the difference would be if there was absorbing at the rear of the TV versus diffusion? My remodel project is on hold or I'd try it myself.
I originally had absorption on the whole front wall and the sides 12ft toward the listening position ... and the ceiling! So that was my extreme experiment. It was 3" Sonex and absorbed above 500Hz.I realized it was too dead and started putting diffusion on the front and side walls, and pulled down the Sonex from the ceiling up to just in front of the speakers. This was with speakers in the conventional front firing position.
The more diffusion I added, the better it sounded. I needed absorption on the sides and ceiling at the first reflection points because the room is kind of narrow ~ 12 1/2ft.
So diffusion is most definitely better than absorption on the front wall and sides up to the speaker position. Diffusion is also good on the back wall as long as it's at least 6ft from the MLP. I also like diffusion immediately left and right of the MLP.
Agilist, Musician, Photographer, Audiophile
Magneplanar: 3.7, CC5, MC1, DWM; Outlaw: UltraX12, LFM-1C; Emotiva: XMC-1, PA-1; Nord: Nord One NC500DM; Outlaw: Model 7500; OPPO 205
Edits: 06/28/21
wide angle view from the MLP
Agilist, Musician, Photographer, Audiophile
Magneplanar: 3.7, CC5, MC1, DWM; Outlaw: UltraX12, LFM-1C; Emotiva: XMC-1, PA-1; Nord: Nord One NC500DM; Outlaw: Model 7500; OPPO 205
Wow, your system is in constant evolution. Some very created ideas and use of materials.
What did the cloud add to your Maggies ?
Not sure what you're referring to as the cloud?
Agilist, Musician, Photographer, Audiophile
Magneplanar: 3.7, CC5, MC1, DWM; Outlaw: UltraX12, LFM-1C; Emotiva: XMC-1, PA-1; Nord: Nord One NC500DM; Outlaw: Model 7500; OPPO 205
The ceiling treatments.
Oh sorry ... yeah some history ...
I originally had live-end/dead-end sort of room with 3"Sonex on the front 1/3 and entire ceiling. It became evident it was too dead but I had Sonex in the area you see on the ceiling at the first reflection point between speakers and MLP. This was with conventional speaker placement and it also benefited from side wall absorption at the first reflection ... I experimented a lot with this.
Yes, dipoles tend not to disperse much vertically so as the Sonex rotted I pulled it down. The soundstage immediately went to hell .. diffuse and collapsed toward the front wall, lacking the depth it previously had.
So ... I got a couple RealTraps (which you see hanging) with the idea that they would restore the soundstage with mid-high absorption as well as help some with a 70Hz modal dip from the ceiling-floor reflection. The bass issue was helped (measurably but not dramatically) ... and the soundstage issue was fixed. I added a couple more Sonex panels between the traps.
Now in the Rooze configuration I expect the ceiling absorbers aren't doing much for the L/R image but there is a center speaker so they do absorb any first reflection from it.
Notice also I have a diffuser array above and slightly behind the MLP. I experimented with a few types, put them up and down, and found as with the rest of the room that the Vicoustic design worked best. Also, the white ones reflect some light down on the couch :-)
Agilist, Musician, Photographer, Audiophile
Magneplanar: 3.7, CC5, MC1, DWM; Outlaw: UltraX12, LFM-1C; Emotiva: XMC-1, PA-1; Nord: Nord One NC500DM; Outlaw: Model 7500; OPPO 205
Interesting that the ceiling impacts the sound stage to such an extent.
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