Planar Speaker Asylum

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Planar Speaker Asylum

Look at MUG For the III and IIIa crossovers and

100.14.59.116

In Reply to: RE: Crossover upgrade for Tympani IVa posted by SteveJewels on January 18, 2021 at 13:11:46

make changes based on the internals you have. This will get you good parts. For small changes to the crossover, I don't know where to look.

Follow Ups:

RE: Look at MUG For the III and IIIa crossovers and - Roger Gustavsson 01:47:43 01/19/21 (18)
It is always a good thing to get famliar with these speakers as they are before doing anything to them. I would advice to have the mid/tweeter panels detached from the bass panels (require extra feet).

I would replace the external crossover with an active crossover. You will need two more channels of power amplification. You can use something like a miniDSP and play with various setups of the crossover. If you want an analog solution, you may need to customise the slopes as Magnepan use non-textbook slopes.

Not sure about the internal crossover, it is unusual to place the coils that way, they will interact. If you pick the coils out and place them "as they should be", I think the crossover characteristics changes. In other words, if you build the crossover externally the values may need to be changed.

Schematic: http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/tweaks/mikebarney/Tympani-4a_xo.gif

Do you know what ribbon tweeters yours have? The original were 3 Ohm bit often failed due to the very thin foil. Second version were 2 Ohm + a 1 Ohm resistor.
- RE: Look at MUG For the III and IIIa crossovers and - SteveJewels 17:26:26 01/19/21 (5)
  I believe the tweeters are the newer version. There looks to be a place to put an external resistor.
  I have 17' so enough room to separate the tweeters from the mid base panel. What sort of spacing from the wall to the base panel, tweeter to mid and tweeter to tweeter? Should all the panels be parallel or angled?
  I have some speaker wire and interconnects on order which should be here in a few days. It will take me a few days to get the turntable and motor control system assembled. I may have it up and running this weekend.
  Longer term I will replace the mid panel with a B&G RD75 and will look at bi-amping. I have a Marchand XM44 active crossover for that and I may try to find a Pass/First Watt B4.
  
  Edits: 01/19/21 01/19/21 01/19/21 01/20/21
  - RE: "I believe the tweeters are the newer version." .... - andyr 17:45:23 01/19/21 (4)
    Tymp IVa ribbons are the same as the later MG-IIIa ribbons - ie. 2 ohms
    Andy
    
    Edits: 01/19/21
    - T-IVa ribbons - Roger Gustavsson 02:18:35 01/20/21 (3)
      Well, the original ribbon that I have is 3 Ohm without any resistor. Was the T-IVa released before the MG-IIIa? I also have the replacement ribbon, the 2 Ohm, as this is the only spare Magnepan have for these.
      The external crossovers are not identical for MG-III/IIIa and the Tympani IVa. The T-IVa is crossed over lower.
      
      Edits: 01/20/21
      - RE: T-IVa ribbons - Norman M 10:07:19 01/20/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: T-IVa ribbons posted by Roger Gustavsson on January 20, 2021 at 02:18:35
        
        "The T-IVa is crossed over lower." All else being equal, is that more or less protective of it's ribbon? I've blown my ribbon's 2.5 ohm fuses (mostly by unintentionally switching to a source set to play too loud) dozens of times. When the original Radio Shack was still in business I bought enough packs of both 2.5 and 3.0 ohm which hopefully would have lasted my lifetime, but I was forced into buying even more from eBay.
        
        Fortunately my IV-A remains the same as the day my Magnepan dealer delivered them ~40 years ago, wired them up and played them. (Something I think he did to protect himself from possibly being accused of providing a damaged product.) I moved everything including those IV-As to my present dwelling 28 years ago.
        
        When you live right 'nothing can possibly go wrong.'
      - RE: "Well, the original ribbon that I have is 3 Ohm without any resistor." ... - andyr 03:11:11 01/20/21 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: T-IVa ribbons posted by Roger Gustavsson on January 20, 2021 at 02:18:35
        
        Aah, OK - that is very interesting, Roger ... the ribbons in the T-IVa mid/ribbon panels that I bought 10? years ago were 2 ohm.
        
        Recently replaced (as I blew one) with the current (slightly longer!) 3 ohm ribbons.
        
        Andy
        
        RE: "Well, the original ribbon that I have is 3 Ohm without any resistor." ... - Roger Gustavsson 03:21:16 01/20/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "Well, the original ribbon that I have is 3 Ohm without any resistor." ... posted by andyr on January 20, 2021 at 03:11:11
        
        The very thin original 3 Ohm ribbons were very fragile. Even though mine survied the Atlantic crossing, one of them ripped later. I bought the replacement kit from Magnepan, the 2 Ohm+resistor+glue+shims etc. (see below) Me too, have an additional par of the recent ribbons.
- RE: Look at MUG For the III and IIIa crossovers and - Norman M 08:11:39 01/19/21 (11)
  "It is always a good thing to get famliar with these speakers as they are before doing anything to them. I would advice to have the mid/tweeter panels detached from the bass panels (require extra feet)."
  
  As shipped from the factory the IV-A was designed to have the M/T panel to be separated from the Bass panels, coming with all the feet required to do that. It's the two B panels (low and high bass) which are attached by hinges, and also being connected to one another electrically. I'm sure you knew all that before I did, (at least I hope so).
  - RE: Look at MUG For the III and IIIa crossovers and - Roger Gustavsson 08:56:57 01/19/21 (10)
    Well, I bought mine as used and I think there was hinges on all panels but eight feet.
    - RE: Look at MUG For the III and IIIa crossovers and - Norman M 09:46:32 01/19/21 (9)
      I thought what we were discussing was the Tympani IV-A, which interests me because I listen to it.
      
      Do III/ IIIA relate to it? Are the out board X-O boxes between these models interchangeable? (Certainly the number or feet provided don't.) If not why bring then into this conversation? IAE you yourself as well as other philes, contributed to what can be found in the MUG, and it doesn't represent Magnepan's word or suggestion.
      - RE: Look at MUG For the III and IIIa crossovers and - kff 11:25:12 01/21/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Look at MUG For the III and IIIa crossovers and posted by Norman M on January 19, 2021 at 09:46:32
        
        Correct, MUG doesn't have just Magnepan suggestions in their files.
        
        I mentioned the MG-III/IIIa because there is a rebuild of the external crossover and Steve is more than capable of doing that and selecting the right value parts to maintain the crossover as T-IVa crossover instead of making an MG-IIIa crossover out of it. There are some differences in crossover frequencies.
        
        As to what Magnepan would approve of, Steve, as you remember was going to take Josh's place as a mouthpiece for Wendell but that is not something the asylum wants, but it indicates he has access to Wendell that many of us do not. So he is in a position to get help from the manufacturer if need be.
      - RE: WOW - what a spray! ... - andyr 22:35:15 01/20/21 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Look at MUG For the III and IIIa crossovers and posted by Norman M on January 19, 2021 at 09:46:32
        
        Norm, I think the mention of "III/IIIa" is in reference to the original 3-seies models - the MG-III/MG-IIIa. Not Tympani IIIs.
        
        So all of the 'tweaks' posted on MUG are completely useless because they are not posted by Magnepan? Of course they aren't Magnepan's suggestions; Magnepan makes the basic product ... enthusiasts get to work on them, to improve their performance.
        
        You appear to have led a sheltered life and haven't heard of motoring enthusiasts who improve the stock models they buy - not only from GM ... but also Mercedes. (AMG used to be an after-market 'tweaker' of Mercedes cars - then (AIUI) it got bought out by Mercedes Benz.)
        
        Don't forget that Magnepan have survived for 50 years by being frugal with their components; they use 'normal' parts - not 'boutique' parts (which can sound better).
        
        Andy
        
        RE: WOW - what a spray! ... - Norman M 11:58:56 01/21/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: WOW - what a spray! ... posted by andyr on January 20, 2021 at 22:35:15
        
        "Don't forget that Magnepan have survived for 50 years by being frugal with their components; they use 'normal' parts - not 'boutique' parts (which can sound better)."
        
        And might you not forget that in the Carver/Stereophile challenge BC installed NON-boutique electronic parts into his tweaked mid-priced SS (M1.0t), and 3 Stereophile Editors couldn't distinguish its sound from that of a boutique CJ tube amp costing ~30X more.
        
        RE: WOW - what a spray! ... - Norman M 08:49:37 01/21/21 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: WOW - what a spray! ... posted by andyr on January 20, 2021 at 22:35:15
        
        'Andyr', thanks for your reply.
        Everyone can benefit from a hobby (or two). Needless to say others' hobbies may not be the same as mine. Using a IV-A, topics such as room placement, speaker wire their termination and attachment, electronics used to drive their IV-As (SS vs. tubes, Class A, A/B, D, etc.) their power capabilities, bi-amplification and necessary X-Os interest me.
        
        I've noticed that Magnepan's "boutique" 30.7 use the same (at least external fuse assembly, although seemingly gold plated) as do their lower cost speakers.
        
        I'm quite satisfied with my speakers (and car) both running as they did originally. Presently my major hobby is trying to run as I did originally.
        
        Everyone can benefit from a hobby (or two). - SteveJewels 10:08:30 01/21/21 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: WOW - what a spray! ... posted by Norman M on January 21, 2021 at 08:49:37
        
        Of your list of T IVa related items the only thing I have settled are the electronics and the room to put them in and that took me years. LOL
        
        Hopefully, with the help of people here, I can make faster progress with speaker placement, room treatment and cables.
        
        RE: Everyone can benefit from a hobby (or two). - Norman M 13:33:53 01/21/21 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Everyone can benefit from a hobby (or two). posted by SteveJewels on January 21, 2021 at 10:08:30
        
        BTW, if you end up bi-amping using your active Marchand XM-44, the outboard Tympani IV-A XO boxes are NOT used, so you needn't be concerned with the quality of their parts.
        
        RE: Everyone can benefit from a hobby (or two). - SteveJewels 16:48:49 01/21/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Everyone can benefit from a hobby (or two). posted by Norman M on January 21, 2021 at 13:33:53
        
        That will be down the road a bit when I get another amplifier. In the meantime I'd like to experiment with the Xovers I have. One of my hobbies.
        
        T-IVa crossover(s) - Roger Gustavsson 01:30:31 01/21/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: WOW - what a spray! ... posted by andyr on January 20, 2021 at 22:35:15
        
        As we are discussing the Tympani IVa not the MG-III or MG-IIIa, maybe we should let them out here. Magnepan does not use textbook filters like 18 or 12 dB/octave.
        
        About the T-IVa being crossed over lower. That was in comparsion with the MG-III and the MG-IIIa. In this case it was the external crossover taking care of the bass to mid transistion.
        
        If you have problems with blowing fuses of the ribbon, it does not relate to the external crossover. The ribbon in the T-IVa is crossed over at a higher frequency than in the 3-series, except for the 3.7/3.7i.
      - RE: Look at MUG For the III and IIIa crossovers and - kff 10:58:52 01/20/21 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Look at MUG For the III and IIIa crossovers and posted by Norman M on January 19, 2021 at 09:46:32
        
        The III and IIIa are very similar in that they have a similar external crossover and there is a full blown upgrade how to for that crossover. There will be some internal differences because the crossover characteristics are slightly different but not so much that Steve can't figure out what I'm talking about.

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