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In Reply to: RE: In the interest of sharing posted by Dawnrazor on June 06, 2020 at 19:50:24
That's one way to uncouple, but you could do much better. We found out years ago that most components benefit greatly from uncoupling as opposed to coupling(spikes). We did all kind of weird things back then, one was to hang components in mid air From different grades of elastic material, that triggered the search for the ultimate uncoupling components. I must have tested dozens of footers over the years( couple + decoupling) and finally found the closest thing to mid air suspension from a specialized Swiss company, they are a big PITA to use, changing cables and leveling components is very delicate and placement and dialing in the amount of suspension is necessary, the suspension must be set so that if you slightly touch the component it will remain swaying for at least 10 seconds, no upside down brush will ever do that, let alone allow for leveling.
I actually hate these things, once dialed in, you DO NOT want to touch that component again, but my CDP benefits in such a way that it has become impossible for me to listen to it without them ( and this is no cheapo CDP)
Edits: 06/07/20Follow Ups:
The diy rollerballs would move like crazy when just turning up the volume or pressing a button. The brushes don't do that for sure. But they do allow for up and down vibration dissipation.
its a good point about the leveling. Must be an analog thing. Never had to level a component or had a situation where it mattered. Though maybe a cdp, but I ditched that decades ago.
Anyhow the brushes are super cheap and easy to do and give great results with little if any fuss.
Cut to razor sounding violins
"... The diy rollerballs would move like crazy ..."I saw one guy use round silver concave drawer pulls recessed into a base plate with large ball bearings set in the concavity and marble tile on top of that. Looked very cool and finished. I suppose the concave drawer pulls would limit the movement unless a significant amount of lateral force was applied to make them jump the cups.
The idea was similar to this, except with the drawer pulls let into the base and the base having 3 or 4 pulls. Ball bearings on top of that and then the marble plate.
Edits: 06/08/20 06/08/20
Nice idea! I was using furniture "cups" but the pulls look great. FWIW I have the cup then the ball then a cup on top as a hat then the brush on my headphone amp and my Big Ben.
So far I think the brushes are sounding better than the rollerballs but maybe the drawer pulls would help.
FWIW the guy who saw me doing diy roller balls suggested the brushes as a better options. Seems to be the case.
Here is some more info he posted:
The bristles of the brush work best when under compression as this creates a bow in the bristle which causes the bristle to act as a spring permitting booth later and vertical motion. The act of bending is resisted by torsion within the fibers this generates heat which is how energy is dissipated. The multiple fibers of the brush also rub against each other this too generates some additional friction and the fibers also damp the motion of each other providing stability preventing a large mass resonance. The mechanism is not unlike a weight upon a spring suspension a spring which is damped in the vertical plane and stabilized/damped in the horizontal plane. Coil springs are used to achieve the similar results especially on heavy components such as amplifiers and turntables. Foam materials of both closed and open cell construction could be used an extension of this wold be a single closed air bladder or bag with sufficient stretch in the wall material of the bag.
Cut to razor sounding violins
I did exactly that on the rack that held the turntable. I bought 4 little concave door knobs (after agonizing for hours, chose the plain brass ones, no other experience with other finishes, YMMV).
Then I drilled four holes in the top shelf, screwed on the dooknobs, placed a bearing in each concavity, then placed a hardwood board on that.
That lasted about an hour. I realized I did not want to go down this road.
I removed the doorknobs and haven't looked back since. Let that be my audiophile epitaph.
/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends
I totally get that.FWIW I do have my headphone amp and reclocker on brushes on top of rollerballs. But the trick to making them practical is to put a hat on them instead of letting the ball touch the component or shelf. It limits the play.
Cut to razor sounding violins
Edits: 06/10/20 06/10/20
Man! You really piled it on! cork,rubber, roller balls + upside down brushes........ it won't win any design awards, but if you like what it does, that's all that matters!
Mid air suspension is a PITA but I never have to touch my pre + cdp, just my remotes (well, except dropping the CD in)
It wasn't intentional. It hard to see in the pict but there is a shelf in front of the component and I needed to raise it to be above that shelf. The thing used to be below the shelf with one cork/rubber biscuit or just the brush. When I added the rollers to the brush I needed to get it higher to clear the shelf.
Those suspension platforms, are those the magnetic ones? You got a link?
Cut to razor sounding violins
Nope, Looked into the magnetic footers that definitely suspend it in mid air, but didn't like the idea of heavy magnets under my components. I prefer the "Feet of Silence" from Solid Tech,(Swedish, not Swiss!) I use them under drives, pre's, external power supply's........ except my mono's, they don't give a hoot what they sit on, and believe me, I tried everything.
The 2 foto's show the original design and the follow up, I use + prefer the original design, it gives you the option of different O-rings, thick or thin, or a combination, 1,2 or 3 rings, this way you can configure each foot separately, which helps leveling. ALWAYS use 3 feet, add or subtract O-rings to achieve maximum stretch to the point that the inner cylinder nearly touches the shelf, and try to create the smallest triangle, this creates maximum swaying + freedom of movement. WHERE you place them will influence differently, for example, under a CDP you would place one under the drive, one under the transformer and the 3rd to level it out. Like I said before, once you have the feet placement dialed in + leveled out for maximum freedom of movement, you really DO NOT want to touch them again, but the sonic awards can make them unmissable.
I did A/B the 2 designs and the original wins, I think the new design is a marketing thing, they aren't as fussy as the original, with just 1 spring and without the rollerball on top.
they look solid and cool. And pricey. I would rather hire the Swedish bikini team to level my components. Might be cheaper :)
Will have to look into them though. Maybe there is something cheap I can do that gets close.
Meanwhile, more brushes have arrives.
Cut to razor sounding violins
Cool! Can't wait to see what you come up with! but I must say, upside down hair brushes are a tough act to follow.......
3 work better than 4.
Nice BDP24! You stated the obvious, 4 should not even be a option, 3 is the only way to go. Still, any kind of rollerballs are not in the same league as mid air suspension.
Rubbing the bristles would likely cause electrostatic charge to build up. This would then arc to the flux capacitor causing a discontinuity in the time-space continuum (at least locally). Elactrons would begin oscilating back and forth in time, undoubtedly resulting in extramodulation distortion which would most certainly be audible. I would recommend the brushes be lathered liberally with a mild detergent to mitigate this circumstance.
Agilist, Musician, Photographer, Audiophile
Magneplanar: 3.7, CC5, MC1, DWM; Outlaw: UltraX12, LFM-1C; Emotiva: XMC-1, PA-1; Nord: Nord One NC500DM; Outlaw: Model 7500; OPPO 205
ITs all true, except that the milk from the Elactrons which is released when the vibrate back and forth WILL act as a lathering detergent sparing the time continuum.
Cut to razor sounding violins
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