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In Reply to: RE: Subwoofer(s) not required...... posted by TwoTurntables on January 05, 2019 at 16:09:59
Love your set-up, and I don't think it's sterile looking at all. In fact it's very color coordinated with design complimenting function.
Alas, my 3.7i based system veers off in an entirely different direction, but that's because we have differing requirements. I'm in total agreement about Mye stands, which provide rigidity and directional control (tilt) that's much superior to than Magneplanar supplied feet or alternatively designed oval base. OTOH, my listening room is adapted rather than dedicated, also serving as living room for guests and HT entertainment.
Which brings up an interesting point that hasn't been discussed about music listening preferences. You mentioned Steely Dan's Aja, which is an excellent example of a well produced album with good dynamic range, but not the best representation of highly energized music with bass slam. I'm curious as to how other familiar albums that are known for heavier bass content would fare in your system without benefit of a well integrated sub.
Maggie's do most things extremely well (in fact, better than any speakers I'm aware of at their price point), but deep bass isn't something Magnepan emphasizes in promotional literature. The 3 series speakers do produce excellent bass fundamentals to a point, but there are limits, especially in larger repurposed rooms. This is where I'd imagine a smaller dedicated listening room with well thought out acoustical treatments pays the biggest dividends.
I should probably add that those with larger and/or multi-purposed rooms who either lack the capabilities or inclination to bi-amp their system can take solace in the fact that with proper selection and placement there are subs that integrate well 3 series Maggies. In fact, one might conclude that a meticulously set-up 3 series Maggie system with sufficient power and well integrated sub(s) is just a poor man's 20 series system without subs.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need a moment to relocate behind some lead shielding while awaiting the forum radiation levels to subside. (LOL).
Room/System configuration: 22'x22'x20', three feet from back wall, approx. 10 degree toe-in, 5 degree tilt, inside tweeter alignment. Last time I checked, my system profile ...CD, SACD, BD sources, pre & power, subwoofer... was current, but I'll double check later.
Follow Ups:
Quote-"Which brings up an interesting point that hasn't been discussed about music listening preferences. You mentioned Steely Dan's Aja, which is an excellent example of a well produced album with good dynamic range, but not the best representation of highly energized music with bass slam. I'm curious as to how other familiar albums that are known for heavier bass content would fare in your system without benefit of a well integrated sub"
Audiophilander- Thanks for your post and question. Black Cow from Steely Dan isn't the absolute best song for bass... but I was just stating that this was the first song we played after hooking up the Mono Blocks. Even that song showed up much lower and tighter bass. it was immediately noticeable......I have also played some older jazz with a stand up bass and of course it gets even better. Big difference, I know having all that power to the Maggies is always a good thing......
you would realise that subs really can enhance your listening experience. :-))That is ... if you have integrated them well.
To me this means:
* you need 2 subs (at least)
* you roll off the Maggies to match the subs' roll on
* you have DSP to delay the Maggies, to time-align them with the subs. This delay is a function of:
- the frequency and slope of the sub/Maggie XO, and
- the different distances of your subs from your ears, compared to the Maggie bass panels.Andy
Edits: 01/11/19 01/11/19
Andy.... Thanks for your post. I have started this thread due to seeing so many people(on this site) thinking they need subs to get a great bottom end with a pair of Maggies. Unfortunately nobody on this forum has heard my system(nor have I heard everybody elses), and can fully understand exactly what type of bass I have now come across with all of my work/development over the past 3-4 years. I personally do not have any interest in Bach. Also as I pointed out in a few lines back, you haven't heard what I am hearing so we really don't know if 2 subwoofers are truly needed to hear Bach correctly. I am not talking about taking the bass to a very hot level, which I have no interest in doing so anyway, I run all my music neutral on my preamp. If you desired room shaking hot bass then yes you would need subwoofers to accomplish that. For standard listening I think you would be surprised what the bass sounds like in my music room now.
I can appreciate your argument but I suggest a more appropriate statement would've been something like " my 3.6s (carefully arranged in the room) deliver bass that I am perfectly content with, given the music I listen to " - rather than your statement which was basically " I've done this and I can assure everyone, you don't need subs with Maggies ".I presume you would agree that a pair of 20.7s - having larger bass panels than your 3.6s - would deliver lower bass than what you're getting?
Well, yesterday, I went to listen to a friend's system - who has 20.7s, coupled with a newly bought pair of REL 212 subs. This is in a room which is about ('m guessing, here) 50' x 30' by 20'. His system delivered the most amazing rendition of Bach's infamous "Toccata & Fugue" that I have ever heard on a hifi system. Thunderously low - and in contrast, when the subs were switched off ... much of the magic was lost.
"Fanfare for a Common Man" was similarly impressive.
Your bad experience with your IIas and a sub is not atypical - it simply means that you didn't know how to integrate them properly.
Andy
Edits: 01/13/19 01/13/19
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