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I just purchased totally rebuilt ESL 63's. I have a few questions for owners.
1. Do power cords make a difference?
2. Plugging them into a line conditioner
3. Using my pair of 8" Mini Vee subs rolled off at 40 Hz.
Never owned stats before and I am so excited about buyng a pair, this was the one speaker I always wanted to try.
The rebuilt one can handle my MC402 amp. MPK caps upgrades amound other things.
Thanks!
PJB
Edits: 06/15/12 06/15/12Follow Ups:
I've been using Quad ESL 63s for nearly 30 years, and have tried several power cords over the last 10+ years (largely because I was trying them on other equipment), and have found absolutely NO AUDIBLE AFFECT one way or the other. I've also not been able to discern any difference on Martin Logan CLSs, KLH9s, Acoustat Threes, or SoundLab Dynastats. As far as I can tell, not too surprisingly, it doesn't make any difference what kind of power cord you use to charge a pair of ESLs, as long as they function at all. It doesn't even matter if you have a grounded plug, or not!
Now, if you want to hear those '63s sound as good as possible, I would suggest you look at getting a pair of stands though. I recommend the Arcici stands VERY highly, but if you cant find a pair (sadly, they're no longer made), try and find a pair of "Stand, and Deliver" stands... those were the little base mounted stands that Quad sold for them. If you can't find a pair of those, at least try placing them on some cinder blocks... you'll be amazed at how much better the perform lifted at least 8-10" off the floor.
Absolutely so. Power Cords -- Nyetski... Stands...absolutely.
My speakers when rebuilt by Kent.
8 Element Rebuilt
2 EHT Board-82K
2 Input/Spark Arrestor Board
4 Dust Cover Assembly Rebuilt
2 Refoam Plinth/Frame Components
2 Upgraded Grill Cloth
2 Safety Screen Upgrade
2 Clamp Board
2 RC Netwrok Board Upgrade With MPK's
2 Cardas Binding Posts
PJB
Fantastic enjoy! ESL63 are one of my favorite speakers regardless of price.
I was using my ESL-63 with a home-made power cord constructed of 8 ft. #14 AWG Romex and industrial-grade plugs. The results were mostly positive. I don't know why it should make a difference, but the difference was definitely audible.
Well I got them setup. Short overview. Easy speaker to setup, image is great, dynamics are great, bottom end is great, compared to my many cone speakers everything is reproduced equal, not better vocals that jump, better bass etc, everything is superb.
Vocals are scary good, and these speakers can go low if you have a big amp on them, I using 300 watts, not that I am playing them loud, I'm not, in fact that is where they shine, unlike cone speakers you don't have to play them loud to come to life.
I've read a lot on these speakers and those who have complained about them for various reasons I just not hearing any of the knocks on the Quad.
Now having said that my is totally rebuilt, so what I am hearing could be very different than the 63 stock form, bit I can say this what I am hearing is special, enjoyable, and jaw dropping good, this was the last speaker I thought I would own due to all the negative stuff I read.
But with my system and my room it just is not so.
Call me very happy, money well spent.
PJB
Congratulations on the Quads! Now that you've lived with them for a bit of time, are they everything they're made out to be? I've been on hunt for pair, though current funding is preventing me from pulling the trigger.
Yes they are. I heard a pair of 57's years a go and the Quads were always on my to do list. This pair I have has been totaly rebuilt and sound just as I expected they would. MOre than happy and money will spent.
They do it all and do it right, and my 2 subs blend perfect with them.
PJB
Have you tried running them full range without any subs? If I should get a pair, I don't plan on using subs.
Yes I did and they sounded just fine without the subs, I use the subs because I have them, they added only a touch to the bottom end, if you like blues, jazz, pop, rock, folk you would not need a sub, they go low enough and most important clean enough with detail and pitch without the subs.
I could enjoy these speakers as stand alones because they do so much right, and better that most speakers on the market regardless of price.
PJB
To quickly answer your questions:
1. No - not in your case - a fancy power cable will give you no audible benefit - only empty yoour wallet.
2. No - not in your case - these speakers act as a capacitor and only store a charge. the rest of your equipment may benefit - especially if your into vinyl - so a power conditioner may help overall (just not specifically on the speakers).
3. Is your 40 hz rolloff the high pass or low pass? If your crossing your quads over at 40 Hz you still risk the danger of damaging you quads if they are early models and do not have the overload protection circuit. You will essentially realize no gain or advantage to the sonic picture and very well could reduce the overall quality of the bass response. If you are cutting your Quads off at 1oo to 120 Hz then you have taken enough out of the bottom end where you will notice increased dynamics and more apparant overall volume. They still wont rock though and again bass quality can suffer.
Good Luck - hope you enjoy your Quads - I certainly enjoy mine!
Dr. Phil,
I can speak for 57s if not for 63s. I never tried fancy power cords but you could try this experiment. I good pair of 57s will play for 10s of minutes with the power cord disconnected - I assume 63s will too. Try disconnecting the power cord and see if the sound gets better. I am not advocating making this as the norm, just suggesting that if the regular power cord sounds as good as no power cord you really can't expect fancy power cords to make a difference - but you can always try some and report back here.
Enjoy
13DoW
I would say that changing power cords on a Quad ESL will NOT render any difference to the sound of the speaker at all.
The reason for this is quite simple.
All the Quad ESL does is collect voltage from the outlet and store it in their elaborate circuitry of capacitors.
This includes the stators that are capacitors too.The speaker then holds a STATIC charge. NOT a fluctuating voltage!!!!
This is the major difference from an amp for example.There may be different circuitry on other electrostatic loudspeakers that has lesser charge resistance then the Quad ESL.
Then it will be different. But then again it would have lousy and distorted bass extension, so it's probably low cut!!!
The one who succeeded was the one who didn't know it was impossible.
Edits: 06/13/12
nt
Joe
Thank You very much!!!!!
The one who succeeded was the one who didn't know it was impossible.
Are you making the statement "that changing power cords on a Quad ESL will NOT render any difference to the sound of the speaker at all." on a purely theoretical basis or an empirical one?
Just curious as to whether you have ever listened to Quad speakers using different power cords.
Joe
"Are you making the statement "that changing power cords on a Quad ESL will NOT render any difference to the sound of the speaker at all." on a purely theoretical basis or an empirical one?
Just curious as to whether you have ever listened to Quad speakers using different power cords.
Joe "
I am basing it on electrical physics based on the circuitry on the Quad ESL.
The reason for it is what I wrote earlier in this thread. :)
The one who succeeded was the one who didn't know it was impossible.
With the Electrostatic Solutions new power supply update a better power cord will make a difference, the touch of glare is gone, better top to bottom and vocals to die for. By the way Kent new updates blur the line between the dynamics of a cone speaker to the Quads. Worth every dollar. I've had my now for 4 months and I still play some recordings and just saw wow! Like hearing them for the 1st time. Audio heaven.
PJB
I agree with Frommerstop.
With knowledge of how things REALLY work with electrostats, You could use a power cord out of pure rusted iron and not hear a difference.
And You say You hear a GLARE from ESL 63?? A speaker that is GLOBALLY considered to be one of the finest sounding speakers in the world.
Really!? Then You are the first!
But if You feel that You need to justify Your investment of a expensive power cable then You go ahead.
The brain is so easy to fool.
And if You are happy with it, then I am glad for You!
Cheers!
The one who succeeded was the one who didn't know it was impossible.
G'Day,
There are two important factors that govern the use of power cords and speaker cables.
1. They must reach from the mains/amp to the device/speaker.
2. They must pass current from one end to the other.
3. (optional) Match the floor covering.
Regards,
Gary Jacobson
Keeping mine on the floor, I liked the tone better that way. For the power cords that I use, if I heard no difference I use them in my video system, no meed to justify my purchase of them. Nothing wrong with the stock ones, but I prefer my current ones, and it not night and day, just better.
If you heard them at my house you understand. In audio everything makes a difference. Good or bad it to ones ear. Perhaps others don't hear the change but with this power cord I did and for the fun of it I've put the old power cord back on and I've hear the change, and I could live with either to be honest, but then having the extra cords I don't have to.
Great speakers, I still shake my head when I've put a disc on that I've not heard in awhile (before Quads) and go wow what a nice improvement in the sound.
PJB
Quad 63? Get it off the floor by at least a foot. PJW's opinion, not mine.
Here is what he said in a letter to Ivor Humphreys in May, 1985:
"Yes, the room is a bit small, but not impossible. The speakers can go as close to the side walls as you like and can touch the walls with no deleterious side effects. I suspect they will be best raised well off the floor, much more than most commercial stands provide. Don't worry about fancy spiked feet and the like, just prop them up on a stack of beer crates or what have you. You can make it look better when you've found the right position."
Regards,
Gary Jacobson
Thanks. I would also take it then that say plugging them into a PS Audio Quintet that isolates the ac outs and lowers noise would be of any help/imporvement. I just happen to have a extra one that I can use for this function instead of plugging them into the wall out let, I would guess lower noise from the ac should improve the Quad because of less noise.
Your thoughts?
PJB
If ther would EVER be any noice coming out of the speakers then they would have a faulty circuitry and/or a leaking stator/stators.
The one who succeeded was the one who didn't know it was impossible.
That what I thought also. The one thing I still use PS for is protecting the speakers in case of a lighting power surge. I had this on my A/V system and it really did protect my gear, shuts down before damge could be done, it really doe work, and for my TV a nice picture also with the PS used a outlets for all the A/V gear.
Now using a Monster Cables 7000 balanced power line conditioner for the A/V system. Could not pass it up for the price asked.
PJB
While everything that JLindborg says is factually correct, I would not just assume that power cords and AC conditioners of one type or another would make no difference. This is why the hobby is a bit maddening. I once did try six different power cords on my Sound Lab M1s, in an evening long listening session. They do make a difference. More expensive cords were not necessarily better than cheap ones. The two best of 6 were the Sound Lab factory supplied ones and Mapleshade ribbon types (the best by a slight margin). I have no idea why the experiment turned out the way it did, because it really shouldn't matter. Also, for the heck of it and because I had one lying around, I use a Tice Microblock to isolate the AC supply from house circuit noise that could in theory contaminate the AC supply. If I had a spare PS Audio 300, I would use that. It can't hurt. And of course you could do your own listening test to determine whether it helps.
I have owned ESL63s. They are great speakers and you will be very pleased, regardless of your choice in power cords.
I would however think that filtering/cleaning would make some difference on other gear that does get power in a more "musical" way.
The one who succeeded was the one who didn't know it was impossible.
But it sure benefited my Martin Logan as it sounded more cleaner, open and quite as a tomb. I was using the MIT power cords and line conditioner.Of course YMMV.....
If a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing well
(Proverb)
Edits: 06/12/12 06/12/12
To paraphrase Peter Walker, power cords DO make a difference...they have to reach from the Quads to a working electrical outlet!
I have used any number of electrical cords on my ESL-63s including a pair of 18 footers I bought from an ordinary electrical supplier, so I could place the speakers where it was convenient. I have never used any costly audiophile cables or power conditioners with mine, and I am quite happy. You may get a lot of contrary advice regarding power conditioners, cables, etc. I'd recommend not putting up money on any expensive such items unless the seller is willing to allow you a two-week trial period and full refund if you decide they don't make any difference.
I'd suggest that you just hook up your Quads and enjoy them.
They're wonderful speakers!
George
Be highly skeptical about power cords and conditioners for that purpose. All the power does in those is to charge the screens. I've read at least one person feels otherwise but I don't see how. Power draw is rather tiny for the HV supply.
Just curious here, being in the market for a pair of ESL 63s myself: did you purchase your ESL 63s from Electrostatic Solutions?
Yes.
PJB
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