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In Reply to: RE: Sound coming from outside of the soundstage posted by JBen on March 17, 2012 at 17:19:04
This hhscott tuner dose a great job ....But the star is the hhscott 299c
pre/amp never have had a All stock tube amp with all the tubes that scott put in...over 60yeas ago ...I never heard any thing like it.. now i drive my Old B&W DM16s...big full bass..lot of fun..It only 30 watts but it well drive the Magnepan ture ribbions vary well... Thats just the ribbinos.....It seems to have more power tha a Dynaco.ST70....an it outputs are the 7591s...go figg....This Amp puts a lot of thing out side of the maggys nomatter if the tweeters are in /out
I looket at you room...tuff...12'WX25 long...but you got it working thats all matter
thanks for your time an goodluck on you woodwork
Follow Ups:
The 299c I never saw before. Given HH Scott's design prowess at the time, it would not surprise me if they project more power than the ST70s. I liked the overall sound of the ST70s. However, I was not successful in them driving the midrange/tweeter combo (of a bi-amp set that I had in the 80s). To be fair, the volumes at which I played some things in those days...
You know, the room was not as much of a scare when I first considered buying the MMGs. OTOH, the fact that I would have to live with a TV in the middle was my very worst concern.
Long story short is that it may have been a blessing in disguise for it facilitates great center imaging. Luckily, the late Al Sekela had had the same challenge and threw a few good ideas my way.
Also helping, though I did not realize it at first, was the truncated corner wall on the left side. Once I matched on the other side, stuff beagn to fall in place rather easily.
Thanks; the wood work went fine on the most important aspect: the sticks that do the actual sound improvement job. These were cut just as precisely as I needed. They will be hidden from view so we did not stain them.
On other, more exposed pieces, things did bomb out, at least for the day. The test for the wood stains that I thought I'd use made us reconsider. I'll have to test other alternatives...but "pretty" can always wait on my book. I just need them to sound right, for now. : - ))
I just played "Hotel California" from "Hell Freezes Over" again, this time plugging my right ear. The crowd, which was limited to the edge of my speakers, suddenly blossomed to all around my left side. I heard whistles from BEHIND me. Freakin' awesome. Going to play with placement and see if I can't figure something out.
Awright! We're getting somewhere.
I was hoping to find my installation disks for Flash (creator) which got corrupted in the PC, but they must be in the storage. With Flash, I may be able to illustrate, by animation, the appearance of items on my soundstage as some pieces are played. I have many examples that correlate with other Maggies and other box speakers that I've played that same music through.
In the meantime, for further reference at the start of this Hotel California version, before the singing begins:
- As the piece opens, the first guitar chords appear centered, about 2ft behind my TV (which always behaves as if it were not there, sound-wise)
- A guitar solo then begins a couple of feet behind the right MMG
- The bulk of the crowd is spread from left outside that MMG to right outside that MMG, but on the other side of the back wall (sliding door).
- The low-frequency amplified/miked conga beat is strong, dynamic and beefy. The MMGs don't need the subwoofer to project most of its impressive bass and that's how I prefer it (thought the subwoofer will reveal more low-end ambience, synthetic as it is). This beat shows left of center and I perceive it as slightly forward of the crowd but still outside the room.
- The normally recorded side of the conga pair is sent mostly to the right channel and shows about 4ft behing that MMG.
- The crowd blooms at times, with a bias towards the left side of the room. Some of the whistling is also left-biased but appears slightly behind me and very high above...as if there were various levels in the hall and someone whistled from a level above. This particular whistle location is very reapatable. I've heard it hail from that same spot with 1.7s, 3.7s, 3.6s, LFT-8bs, Nola Baby Grand Ref, B&W 802Ds and a couple other speakers, all in diffrent rooms. So, I supect the recording engineers did not do this by accident.
Yeah I failed miserably. I managed to extend the crowd beyond the speakers by rotating the speakers out so the edge of the speaker are facing the couch (not as good as plugging one ear, but still impressive), but it completely destroyed the center imaging. I ended up settling on moving the speakers wider apart.
What type of room dynamics do you need to get that faithful reproduction outside the stage created by the arc from speaker to speaker?
Ok, just keep trying...little by little one starts getting an improved sense for what might work.If you mean the drawing with the curved arrow, it is a little more elaborate than just the room. Luckily, at some point in the future you may be able to shoot for something like this.
The reason is that to obtain it, room and electronics go into a "tuned state" First, I maximize every room feature that can help in this particualr situation, including exposing the sliding door glass. The latter is usually a no-no in audio but I get away with murder by compensating at the corners. It works, but it still can get too bright with bad material.
The other key element is that I then switch my bi-amp configuration to one that places both drivers in the same polarity. The resulting frequency response curves are virtually the same when measured with a mic. However, the "same polarity" xover version will enhance depth and layering towards the back. It does help to be able to measure the actual frequency response because one "sees" how the drivers work together and separately.
I don't know for sure if this would work with 1.6s but at least you already have a great xover to try it with...but later. First you have to get the hang of what you have.
Which reminds me, if something is not set right in that xover, you may get great imaging showing up in China...LOL!...but not really where you want it. So, keep learning about its capabilities, limitations and related things.
Edits: 03/19/12
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