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In Reply to: RE: I'm done. posted by wazoo on February 26, 2012 at 15:57:33
I don't even know what you're complaining about unless it's Peter Gunn.
I recall seeing a few alerts about one thread this morning. Apparently, the mod cut Peter Gunn's posts from the thread. Our software only trims off branches. If you responded anywhere in the bunch of posts after Peter's, it got deleted too as it's now out of context and we have no way of deleting a single posts and leaving all the response to it.
Deleting 2 posts caused collateral damage in removing a total of 26 according to the logs. Sorry, what do you want us to do?
-Rod
Follow Ups:
Rod,
I fully expected my posts, as well as those by everyone else beneath the offending ones, to be deleted along with the offending posts. That did not happen. The offending posts remained after mine and those by a few other members were discarded - hours after. As I had received no response to the alert I sent regarding the offending posts, what was I to think? Perhaps, I acted a bit hastily, but it matters not. This situation was destined to repeat itself until things got very ugly.
You don't need that in your forum and I don't need that in my life. I've grown tired of waiting for what I cannot control to change - it appears that it never will. I do have control over my membership and I exercised it. I no longer have one. Sadly, I'm not alone. I sincerely enjoyed my time here (nearly all of it, anyway), but it has become an either/or situation.
He's all yours - enjoy!
Sincerely,
Kevin
PS - I will deeply miss the conversations with the many wonderful people in this community. I wish you all the best.
Hey Rod,
I know you were asking Waz, but one thing that should happen here is that the reviews Peter Gunn has posted in the asylum review section for the MMG and the 1.7 should be deleted or at least have some big bright text explaining that PG is a modder of magnepans and to take his comments with a huge grain of salt.
Here is one of the 2 reviews he has on the magnepans he mods, which ironically finds all the "weaknesses" that his mods claim to fix: http://www.audioasylum.com/reviews/Speakers/Magnepan/Magneplanar-MMG/MUG/12/128298.html
The review portion drops the "M" designation (I am guessing because manufacturers reviewing other manufacturers products is in such poor taste that it wasnt even thought of as a possibility) so you cant tell who is who. Even then how many people even know what the M is for????
I am betting if Ah Tjoeb for instance reviewed the marantz cdps they mod or some other modder did a review of the products they mod, those reviews would be pulled pronto. So should PGs IMHO.
Overall the moderation is pretty good here and often I appreciate Mart's hands off free speech approach. It works pretty well here with the exception of manufacturers. Years ago there was this French company that made similar products like magnepan and would bust into threads. They got banned pretty quickly, but PG has been doing this for years so it makes one wonder why he has gotten a pass but the french guy didnt. Consistency is key.
Afterwards we discovered faith; it's all you need
"A member of the trade may not volunteer any information about a specific product that he is selling or making, in response to a general request for information about a type of product or in any other discussion."
Some, myself included, feel that this is routinely violated by Peter Gunn of Magnestand. I have no ill will toward him and I understand interpretation is up to the moderator. I don't really care, as there are people here I ignore and others I respect. Others care more and move to other planar speaker forums. The level of knowledge on this forum is quite high. The level of discourse, not so much...
Regards,
Steve
We try. Our biggest problem is that we don't have mods that are reading every post and siting at their computers all day. Since I don't know the players here, we leave this forum pretty much up to Mart to handle.
What happens too often is that no one complains and folks take it on themselves to chastise a poster that they feel has crossed the line. Then the next time or another time, we get a few alerts and respond by deleting the post. Now, we're inconsistent.
It's a tough job. Mart's made the decision to take another tack. Hopefully that will work and the discourse level will rise back up.
-Rod
Rod and Mart,
I don't envy Mart his position. But I think I have to be blunt here. We've just lost three of our most valuable contributors, and they aren't the only ones who have left. We've had new posters come here and announce they were leaving the same day.
PG has offered much valuable advice and help over the years. I feel no personal animosity towards him and I really hope the situation could be rectified in a congenial way. But with key members leaving, I think the situation is close to the point of no return.
Unfortunately, I don't think this is just a matter of Asylum rules; those are fairly straightforward to police. What PG does, again and again, is to make tendentious and sometimes unfounded statements, some of which misrepresent the motives and actions of others in the industry, or hurt others in the group. He then interprets even polite disagreement as a personal attackm and makes a personal attack on the person who disagreed with him, frequently distorting what he and the other person said in the process.
Over time, resentment builds. I spoke to Wazoo by email, and, unfortunately, he has no intention of coming back. The problem has just gone on for too long.
Maybe I can give you an example of what happens, from PG's recent thread in the General Asylum. An excerpt from his original post:
"The goal now seems to be stick a 47 grand price tag on [an audio product] and write a good ad copy with the hope some sucker with money trying to look important will come along.... just keep telling them it's the best money can buy. . . . Audio has catered to this elitist snobbery for so long that it is connected audio from the lives of mainstream people."
Then when, having in effect insulted a lot of high end manufacturers, critics, and equipment owners, some posters question what PG said, he misrepresents his initial post:
"All I did to kill some time was to post a little query about this industry . . . "
And insults just about everyone on the group:
"Did it prompt civil discussion? No, it turns into an orgy of replies an opinions, each an island unto itself - I am loved, hated, right, wrong, promoting myself, promoting others, being rude, being kind, right on, right off, f*ck me, f*ck you. Some of the replies were such that it makes one wonder if the original post was read or understood at all.
"Whatever the answer to my question was, (Assuming anyone even cares, as there were those who only care WHY I care. They don't care about the thing itself, they only care that I care about it and I must explain myself while they are free from explaining their hypocrisy) anyway, whatever the answer is, what the carnage below this post indicates is a fractured and clearly non united group of people.
"I know of no other group of people online who supposedly come together in a brotherhood and yet who behave so badly, so rudely, so arrogantly to each other, as goes on in this community. That such a single innocuous question could result in such a carrying on, such resentment, so many insults? Audio elitism is certainly alive an well... "
There's more, but I think this is a pretty good indication of how skewed PG's perceptions can be, and how those skewed perceptions can lead to conflict.
I really hope that here's a way to reach PG and I'm sorry that I didn't mention this to him in a personal email before things came to a head. I had to learn the hard way that opinions have to be expressed with much greater care on the Internet than in everyday life or in print, and that those of us who are opinionated have to be very, very careful about what we say.
I honestly don't think PG is aware of what he's doing. He's not a troll, or anything like. I think his intentions are good and I think he genuinely believes what he says. But this sequence, and variations on it, is repeated again and again.
But with the group hemorrhaging, I think we're just about out of time.
Wow... miss a day, miss a lot.
I am typically just a lurker here, but I must say that I am grateful for the help and insight I have gained by reading some of the contributions of Wazoo and PG. Were it not for the help of PG, my MG-20's would still be silent in a corner somewhere.
Not going to stick my nose into a mess where it does not belong, but just wanted to pass along my thanks for this forum and it's members.
Cheers!
i know a lot of thought goes into some posts, but get over it. you'll still be able to think enough to post tomorrow. just don't reply to folks that use these forums to make a living (at least don't give it a lot of thought). i don't mind guys using this place to make some money, but just imagine if that was the main purpose. who would be posting then? every post would be a commercial. i kicked in an extra $100.
i totally missed it, but i can just imagine.
I figured as such.
When I first saw it happening this afternoon, I was replying to Davie, far down on the same topic thread. The reply did not go in. So I checked the thread from the main page. It was already short by a significant number of posts.
I've seen this happen before. I figured that Mart was trying to purge some posts but would face the limitations imposed by a multi-threaded system. It is not practical to be surgically selective. This is what Rod means.
I would imagine that Mart would have a headache as he tried to do it. He may be doing it in steps.
Rod, thanks for the clarification. There is still the offending PG piece at the end that some of us don't see how can remain unless it is just the system taking its time to purge. Hopefully, it will come out cleanly, assuming the Moderator intended it this way, which is my expectation.
Many of us do not find the cartoon by itself offensive and consider asking for it's removal, censorship.
> > > Many of us do not find the cartoon by itself offensive and consider asking for it's removal, censorship.
I was thinking the same when I saw what was left, but then decided, ok, let's clean house all together after reading JBen's post, so I deleted it.
Can't win for losing.
-Rod
I didn't get to see the posts that generated the brouhaha so that's the only reference I had to go on. If it's for the best, then so be it. It's a shame that a new poster had his thread become a runaway like that. Poor guy must be wonderin' what goes on around here. Maybe we can get back to the original intent of the OP's post. Personally I like suggestions number 3, 4 & 5.
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