Planar Speaker Asylum

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Planar Speaker Asylum

RE: So the side bracing and solid base offers no audible benefits?

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In Reply to: RE: So the side bracing and solid base offers no audible benefits? posted by E-Stat on January 05, 2009 at 06:59:58

If you'd like an answer to this email me directly.

As for your second part stats are entirely different animals than maggies and have different issues. Yes, they have many things in common, but their inherent problems are entirely different affairs requiring entirely different solutions.

It's all about the music...

Follow Ups:

I read the explanation on your site - E-Stat 09:45:04 01/05/09 (13)
"Wood [vs. MDF] naturally and without hesitation absorbs and dissipates vbration."

My comments concern a different factor: the effects of adding side bracing and a solid base. If any panel speaker flexes fore and aft during bass passages, it will affect the wave launch and blur the result.

I also like your notion of improving their coherency which is why I favor electrostats.

rw
- RE: I read the explanation on your site - Peter Gunn 13:22:41 01/05/09 (5)
  I think your semantics are throwing me. By side bracing do you mean the struts on the back? As I said, my stands have always had these and the bases. They are not there to keep the panels from "bending" during bass passages.
  
  Stock maggies don't have problems because they are "bending" anyway. This is an old, incorrect notion IMHO. They blur because the large amount of vibration they create in fact cannot even get to the mdf frames, and it stays on the mylar ruining all subsequent vibrations. Wood is the answer to that because it sucks up and dissipates this energy.
  
  It's all about the music...
  - RE: I read the explanation on your site - mracoustat 15:24:38 01/07/09 (2)
    Hi Peter Gunn here is the picture of the Acoustat 6 did not know how to put more than 1 picture on my post so i am sending you this other post sorry if there is a way to put more than one photo could sombody please help thank you
    Acoustat's Heaven On Earth
    Bow Wazoo XL
    Electrocompaniet EMC-1up
    Acoustat's 1+1s Highly Modified
    - RE: I read the explanation on your site - Peter Gunn 16:12:43 01/07/09 (1)
      I got a hernia just thinking about picking those up. :^ )
      
      They are very nice, I wish I could hear them. Thanks for sharing.
      
      It's all about the music...
      - RE: I read the explanation on your site - mracoustat 16:21:50 01/07/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I read the explanation on your site posted by Peter Gunn on January 07, 2009 at 16:12:43
        
        Thanks your welcome if you ever get an order for a pair of 1.6QR in
        zebrawood i'm sure those would be very very nice here is my friends livingroom with is Acoustat's 6s
        
        Acoustat's Heaven On Earth
        Bow Wazoo XL
        Electrocompaniet EMC-1up
        Acoustat's 1+1s Highly Modified
  - RE: I read the explanation on your site - mracoustat 15:06:22 01/07/09 (0)
    Hi Peter Gunn i love the work you do on those Maggies i have a friend that does similar work on Acoustat's his Acoustat's 6s are in a metal frame and they weigh 600 pounds he did my 1+1s in a wooden frame he is now working on a pair of spectra 66s & a pair of spectra 33s will send pictures of those once finished keep up the good work
    Acoustat's Heaven On Earth
    Bow Wazoo XL
    Electrocompaniet EMC-1up
    Acoustat's 1+1s Highly Modified
  - See my response to RickeyM -nt - E-Stat 13:52:03 01/05/09 (0)
    rw
- Are you talking about the "struts"? - RickeyM 12:52:03 01/05/09 (6)
  If so, then I believe they do contribute to an overall, stronger structure. Keeping that long, thin panel from flexing back and forth does help Maggies do bass better IMO. This is also why solid basses are used. Gotta have something to anchor those struts and nifty hardwood frames to. Which is why I went with 2" thick maple for mine. Another member here went with granite for his.
  - Yes - E-Stat 13:23:09 01/05/09 (5)
    I was referring to both the struts and the solid base in my original comments. Not that the frame was necessarily thicker, but that the structure is rendered stronger via the additions not found on the factory models.
    
    rw
    - RE: Yes - Peter Gunn 13:58:57 01/05/09 (4)
      It is my opinion that all struts do when placed on stock maggies is allow more vibration to get off the driver, thus reducing some of the haze. This whole notion of "stiffening" is non existant, and stiffness is not this speakers problem.
      
      So while adding them has an impact, it is only moderate and not for the reason most people attribute. Once the entire driver is in a wooden frame and stand stand their meager contribution is no longer even required, as the frames now does it all and you can't tell the difference with them playing with the struts on or off.
      
      It's all about the music...
      - mebbe so.... - RickeyM 21:01:00 01/06/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Yes posted by Peter Gunn on January 05, 2009 at 13:58:57
        
        ...but I like the idea of the speaker NOT being able to move back and forth or twist. I see the struts as a bracing mechanism, not something there to stiffen the frame. Being connected to the speaker panel and the speaker base, I can see how they " allow more vibration to get off the driver".
        
        A question to Peter. How thick are the basses you use and have you experimented with anything thicker?
        
        RE: mebbe so.... - Peter Gunn 21:56:51 01/06/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: mebbe so.... posted by RickeyM on January 06, 2009 at 21:01:00
        
        The way you phrase it makes it sound like movement is actually observable. (and twisting is in any event impossible) That is not the case. Only one thing happens - the driver is vibrating a lot and it will take the frame it is in along with it but that is still just vibration, not physical movement. The mistake you are making is the mechanical dis-association the wood creates.
        
        When your car goes over terrible holes, your tires vibrate up and down severely. Do you inside the car move along with this? No, you don't, even though you are connected to it. That's because there is a mechanical action taking place which relieves that energy before it can effect you. The same thing happens in a wooden frame. It absorbs the vibrations so well there is almost nothing left for a strut to do. They are only there to make the construction more over all stable and moveable.
        
        You can believe this or not, but if you take the struts off of any of my modded maggies you can't hear any difference, and that is simply a fact. As I said, struts have an effect on stock maggies but only because they channel away some vibrational energy, not because they are preventing movement.
        
        Yes, I tried thicker bases, heavier bases, different feet etc... makes no difference. These are all old incorrect notions about cabinet speakers that have been fostered on maggie thought for years and it's all wrong.
        
        Maggies have only 3 problems and they are:
        
        1 - An mdf frame which prevents the massive vibrations they create from leaving the driver.
        
        2 - Poor part quality (caps, inductors, fuses, wires, binding posts, crappy connection ends etc... in other words everything)
        
        3 - Bad XO design. It's essentially one driver. Every time you make the XO drive it like multiple drivers you introduce all sorts of problems.
        
        That's it. All the rest - mass, weight, stiffness et-al belong to the real of cabinet speakers and have nothing to do with a maggie and her problems. Take care of those three things above and you're gold.
        
        It's all about the music...
        
        "Maggies have only 3 problems" Um, you forgot one... - RickeyM 07:16:21 01/08/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: mebbe so.... posted by Peter Gunn on January 06, 2009 at 21:56:51
        
        Those bent pieces of metal that Magnepan humorously call feet. To me, they only become useful the way you use them.
        
        On my MMG's I went with thicker bases to help keep the center of gravity low and the speakers less likely to tip over if accidentally bumped.
        
        Fair enough - Peter Gunn 08:18:15 01/08/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "Maggies have only 3 problems" Um, you forgot one... posted by RickeyM on January 08, 2009 at 07:16:21
        
        That is true, and the person who came up with the height adjusting "swivel bar" should be horsewhipped, even if it was Jim Whiney himself.
        
        It's the curse and blessing of this company - They are so tight they squeak. But it's what's kept them alive thru the bad times and if they had gone down where would we all be now? :^ )
        
        It's all about the music...

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