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Folks:
In my music system, I've got a pair of Maggie 1.6s driven by a B&K Reference 4420 dual mono amp (350 watts/channel @ 4 ohms). I am using an Outlaw 2150 as a pre-amp and it has a subwoofer output. That prompts my question - what subwoofer?I have a HSU VTF3 - MK-II downstairs in the home theater and it is fine for movies but I don't need a great deal of bass in the music system (I listen to mostly jazz, e.g., piano trio). Also, I'm not sure that the rumble mixed in with movie soundtracks is anywhere near as demanding as the subtleties of a stand-up bass. I'd like to keep it under a grand (so maybe something used might work) but I need some suggestions if you please. Thanks in advance.
Follow Ups:
Folks:
Thanks for the input. I'm not sure what I'll do but I've got a better idea of what to look for. Example: There is a REL Q150 for $525 that is tempting.
I appreciate it.
I bought a PSB Subsonic 5 on eBay; $153 from a local guy who didn't want to ship. Integrates very will with my 1.6's at a 50 Hz low pass setting. The 10" has plenty of output for classical music in my 11.5 x 20 foot room.
Muse 18 if you can find one -REL
Vandersteen
All seem to integrate well with planars like Maggies ... which is actually more important than how deep they go.
nt
I have a M L Depth sub with my 3.6 maggies....love it. They are a match made in heaven. Blends very well. I set my maggies to full, and add just the very bottom (30hz) cut off from the sub!!
What have you noticed as the biggest differences from the SVS and the ML?I'm asking because I have a SVS 20-39 PC+, due to affordability, and may try to move up to the ML eventually, if it would make a big difference.
Yes, I heard the grotto I think it was, and would think that their subs would be a great match...it is only their speakers that for whatever reason seem slow.
I have a REL Strata II with my 3.6s. It blends seamlessly with the Maggies. It is very fast and musical. You can find some good used ones on Audiogon.com. That is how I got mine. You can't go wrong with a REL in my opinion.There are several models. Strata is the least powerful ones. You can google "REL subwoofer" and read up on the differences of different models.
mnilan,I'm involved in the development of something that might be of interest to you.
I'd have e-mailed you privately, but your profile doesn't allow it. So I invite you to shoot me an e-mail if you might like to know more.
Best wishes,
The REL Storm III or Strata are very musical and rewarding, and somewhat easier to set up.I've used the Vandersteen 2Wq until recently with my 1.6qr's, also with good success. I did, however, have a lot of trial and error before I found the perfect location. To its credit, the Vandersteen has a variable "Q" control that enables a near-perfect and seamless match with the Maggies.
Just my $.02
I'm having a great experience with the ACI Force and my 1.6. It's an active 10" down-firing, 250 watt. I believe its been replaced with the Force XL.
I use a pair of these with my MG 1.6s and have found this to be a great combination. The subs have dual crossovers which allow you to control not only the crossover point, but also how quickly the sub rolls off. This is very helpful in getting good integration. Also, it has a variable phase control, not just 0 and 180 ... again, very helpful when integrating.Formerly, I used a Vandersteen 2wq which is another great sub. The catch is that you have to place a crossover box between your preamp and amp with this sub.
By the way, I believe the new Force XL is the same as the previous model, just with a new exterior look.
Initiative comes to those who wait.
- Alex, "A Clockwork Orange"
krikor:
What is the issue with placing the crossover between the preamp and amp?
There's no real "issue" with using the crossover required with the Vandy 2wq. It is just an added complication to take into account and adds a capacitor at the input of your amplifier. Since I currently use an integrated amp without any preamp/amp loop, it would not work in my situation. I also needed a sub with line-level inputs that could do double-duty for multi-channel/home theater (both the REL and ACI subs allow you to do this with separate inputs for two-channel and LFE).Here's how the 2wq works:
When you purchase the 2wq, you get a small crossover box with RCA inputs and outputs (so you'll need to add an extra set of interconnects). Switches inside the box allow you to adjust it as appropriate for your amp's input impedance to create a 1st order roll off at 80hz. That way your amp and main speakers are relieved from having to reproduce those low frequencies at their full level. The sub plugs into your amp's speaker outputs and is equalized to reproduce the low frequencies below 80hz at their proper levels. You cannot adjust this crossover point, but you can change the sub's level relative to the mains and it's "Q".
Once you've determined the appropriate setting for the crossover box, you contact Vandersteen and order a higher quality fixed crossover that plugs directly into your amps inputs (it has a male RCA on one end and a female on the other so you don't need the extra interconnects). Basically, this crossover is simply a capacitor in line with your amp, with a value selected based on you amp's input impedance to create the necessary 80hz/1st order roll off.
When I used the 2wq it was with balanced (XLR input) amps. So I built my own crossover directly into the interconnects using InfiniCaps. I forget what the exact formula is for determining the appropriate capacitor value, but I could probably dig it up if you needed.
You'll find much more detail at the Vandersteen link below.
c.
Initiative comes to those who wait.
- Alex, "A Clockwork Orange"
Even though you're only inserting a capacitor in your signal path, the quality of the cap really matters to the whole musical presentation. When I first tried the VAndersteen in my system, I was appalled at how bad it made everything else sound (because of the poor quality of the crossover).Krikor avoided the issue by using nicer quality caps. But even the caps offered by Vandersteen after you've dialed-in the right value with "the box" aren't very good sounding.
One nice Vandersteen solution is to use the crossover from the Model 5 loudspeaker. This has much higher quality caps in it, and sounds pretty good.
My experience... Hope it helps someone.
Though I didn't state it in my previous post, one of the reasons I walked away from the Vandy sub was precisely because of the caps in the signal path affecting sound quality. I was happy enough when I had the small MG 10.1s as my main speakers, which needed to be relieved of bass below 80hz. But after moving to 1.6s, I found that I prefferred them without the crossover and instead running full-range with a sub to just augment the very bottom end.I did borrow a Model 5 xover from my local dealer and thought it was a great improvement. But he wasn't able to get one from Vandersteen, as they are built primarily for the Model 5, and even if he could a pair was going to cost me something like $600.
BTW: I took a look inside the Model 5 xover and found that it contains much more than just better caps. It uses a 9 volt battery to somehow bias the caps (I'm not exactly clear on how this is done). I tried to figure the circuit out so I could build my own, but I was never confident enough in my skills or understanding to go through with it.
Initiative comes to those who wait.
- Alex, "A Clockwork Orange"
http://www.vandersteen.com/pages/2Wqlit.htmlc.
Initiative comes to those who wait.
- Alex, "A Clockwork Orange"
krikor:
Thanks for your details about the Vandersteen 2WQ.
I am looking at replacing my Velodyne, and am seriously considering this sub because it is not designed for video, but for audio only...and it is a diy affair.Since I have active crossovers built in to my source, I was going to skip the plate amp mods and use one of those cheap power pro amps to drive these subs.
YOu can make a PAIR for about $600-700
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