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The US should apply overwhelming force rather than allow the enemy to adapt to a trickle of escalation
Follow Ups:
Question: Who benefits from "a trickle of escalation"?
Answer: "a trickle of escalation" prolongs the war and benefits the Military-Industrial Complex.
And benefit they will, as always.
Speak out, you got to speak out against the madness
You got to speak your mind, if you dare- David Crosby
Muzzle the press above all. That's all they learned.
actually a better post than most will understand. Get it done and leave!
In Vietnam we often claim we never lost a battle, I can name a half dozen off the top of my head. What was wrong in Vietnam was the fools in the basement of the Whitehouse. You had JFK light the match. LBJ toss in the wood for the fire, and Nixon wringing his hands trying to just get it over with. In the end none were right
Gary
because they could lose an election.
I think it was each group trying to rectify JFK's huge mistake. Then trying to manage the situation without ever putting your feet on the ground.
In country we were led by about 15% of the quality needed. Rest were ticket punchers only seeking to increase their status. I was in country for three months before I discovered people were actually getting killed(our side). In Tet (68) we were kept in the dark, and other than Khe Sahn knew nothing but our own actions. A Vietnamese Colonel was the one who told us what was really going on in places like Saigon and Hue. Then the cat was outta the bag. Yes I listened to Lang Vie being over ran on the fire push. and watched jest taking off with class A loads constantly, but never grasped it. A couple months later we were rolling thru DaNang to hook up on an insertion they still had not decided on the where about's yet. We drove past these huge buildings that stored caskets in prior to shipping home. They were full! (three buildings twenty feet high) I was in the back of the 3/4 ton in full gear ready to go. The First Sargent had the driver come to a screeching halt as we watched these guys tossing around caskets. One guy was standing on one. He goes over there and gets in their face, then one guy unflaps his holster. I was outta the truck instantly with a forty round belt in my 60. I walked up and saw that there must have been a hundred slots on each side of the three buildings, and they were all full! Now Top and two of them are going at it, and I know who's gonna win. To this day I've never seen so many caskets in one place, and no one knew about it. Oh! Top did win and the guy with the 45 just froze when he saw me. A Marine group rolled up and finished busting their heads as we left. Never disrespect a KIA!
They never told us anything out west, and everything we picked up was via the grape vine or off the fire push. We heard about Bein Het and Du Co as well as a couple others SF Camps under siege (one went 18 months). The General staff as a rule were very lack luster. Some were OK, but most were not. LT's were a dime a dozen, and most were either KIA or rotated out for a cush job in the rear. If you were good they just added to your work load to you bought it. Yet the same lack luster fools kept dumping their shit on you to make themselves look good. I could deal with Westmoreland, but never was in love with him. I hated Abrams, and he should have been fraged! (probably both of them)
There is a lot of distrust in the combat zone, and you soon know who to trust verses the other. Anybody with spotless clothes and shines boots was avoided. The White House seemed to be very interested in I-Corp all the time, and the upper General staff was more interested in Tu Do Street. The food chain started in the south, and by the time the goods got north it was almost two years. We thought it was like that everywhere! Nay not so! I well remember when Congress cut off our ammo resupply during Tet in 68 just like it was yesterday! Lots of kids bought the farm over that one alone. I hope that Hartke and Bayhe burn real slow in hell!!
I will never forgive those bastards for what they did
Gary
Nt
Russia is about to go to total war against Ukraine instead of Special Operation. They are conscripting 500K men and getting ready to begin a full-scale invasion. The analyst that wrote the article said Russia knows two things about America: 1) they cannot stomach mass casualties, and 2) they rely too much on technology and not boots. Russia is not afraid to mass casualties after being invaded three times in the past 200 years.Over half of NATO is still not spending their 2%. Why should they when dumb old America will always cover the difference?
Edits: 01/24/23
That way nobody will care.
Actually, the lesson should be that wars never solve problems. They just create new sets of problems.
The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.
nothing wrong with the draft. The real duds were the NCO's and Officers followed by the ticket punchers. That 19 year old you drafted performed very well in the bush once he learned that his training was pure bull shit
Gary
...if there's a perceived sacrifice. That's what I meant by "don't have a draft."
You can get away with troops in combat all over Africa and the Middle East as long 1/10th of the population does the fighting. Friend of mine was a perfect example. Supported invading Iraq 100%, but in the next breath said "but they better not thing about a draft. No way are MY kids going into combat."
The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.
n/t
Gary
Another way top look at it, don't have a draft because too many people will protest a war that didn't appear to have a good reason. The new way, you get volunteers and for hire military.
A kid in 1968 made $183 a month (PFC), and the ticket punchers were getting four times that. Yet the kid did the dirty so the ticket puncher could sleep on a dry warm mattress. Mid 68 that same kid made the whopping sum of $249 when he made E-4. You never gave him much needed clothes (but the ticket punchers always got them). You never fed him well, and then you allowed him to contract one disease after another. You never supported the kid you sent to do the dirty work of a bunch of foolish old men, and now you blame him!
What an insult
Gary
I was in the merchant marines after the Vietnam war, but talked to a lot of sailors who put kids through school from the extra pay. I talked to guys who brought a whole bunch of oil exploration equipment , because it was expected there would be tremendous oil reserves there.
By the time the exploration turned up the results of nothing there, the fight over the wealth was already on.
I assume the readers here understand the results of the war for oil in the mideast, that now the fields are now under long term production contracts with the five big international oil companies. All because Hussain was talking about nationalizing the established western built oil infrastructure.
I am not a military strategist , so really couldn't suggest the best way to send in troops.
I can say I am once again a victim of the variabilities of fossil fuel supplies, so my natural gas prices are now much higher. Glad to see a future where renewables will be controlled by us, with stable prices, like other utilities.
I think those are the lessons.
In the case of Ukraine, it is a straight forward case of coming to the aid of an invaded sovereign nation. And the action should be swift.
As happened in WW2, action against Hitler was slow and disjointed.
If the coalition of nations opposing Hitler acted together, quickly and decisively, perhaps Germany could have been boxed in and Hitler plans for world domination shut down by 1941.
Keep Your Hands Clean,
John K
Perhaps the 'lesson of Vietnam' was that the Vietnamese never actually used 'overwhelming force' and the US was unable to 'adapt' to their 'trickle of escalation' and the Vietnamese eventually won.
Lessons indeed.
"Reality cannot exist because it cannot keep up with the lies on the Internet."
n/t
Gary
It's more likely that the NVA understood the lessons from George Washington who knew that the revolutionary armies didn't have to win all the giant set piece battles, they just had to stay on the field. The British armies couldn't concentrate all their forces in one place and win the war. The complications of logistics compounded their armies miseries just as it does for present day Russian forces.
As Colin Powell famously told President George W. Bush, "If you break it you own it."
Let the Europeans have it.
-Rod
Ukraine is already broken and it will get worse and worse until Russia is out of there.
Back with Powell and GWB, Iraq was not broken.
Sure, nobody liked Saddam, or his methods, but he was keeping Iran busy .....
Keep Your Hands Clean,
John K
True, but someone has to pay for rebuilding the Ukraine. We already wasted a fortune on other foreign adventures. It's time that we take care of Americans and our own crumbling infrastructure.
As Opah would say, 'I don't have my name on that one.'
-Rod
Setting the record straight John Iraq was broken and it was because of saddam the Iraqi people suffered. The US and GB, had to step in to play cop when he sent his forces into Kuwait because the oil interests needed to be protected at all costs. Yet there sat Saudi Arabia with all the best military equipment and hardware money could buy.
Your are right though the Iranians and Saudis feared him so he kept things in check. If only the Cheney - Bush mind meld had stayed away.
Edits: 01/24/23
GW1 was justified.GW2 not so.
The Iraqi people did suffer, but in many ways the Iraqi regime kept the various Iraqi religious factions more or less subdued.
When Saddam was ejected and the US led Coallition dissolved almost all Iraqi domestic law and order, the doors to insurgency and religious extremism were swung wide open.
And then it became a complicated 3-way battle of civil war + war against occupying forces.
Keep Your Hands Clean,
John K
Edits: 01/24/23
My sentiment too, send arms, sanction, do some diplomatic arm twisting but leave the day to day dirty work to the Euro block.
Obama got hammered for saying it was time we stopped being the world's police force but there was much truth in it.
Based on their study of Desert Storm they wanted to conduct a month long air bombardment campaign.
But they have a Superior Brain sitting on his gold shitter in kremlin, and that idiot told them "Just go in and take Kiev".
We know the rest of the story.
You cannot take, hold, and control by virtue of superior weapons and technology. You must have sufficient infantry. aka 'boots on the ground'
Back for a bit again. Ignore me if you like.
A lesson Russia is now learning (again) because they never do learn this lesson.
Such a novel idea jedrider and an excellent one at that I must say. I hope pootin and the ruSSians get the message real soon. They will get it, sooner or later.
Speak out, you got to speak out against the madness
You got to speak your mind, if you dare- David Crosby
Where?
*********
We are inclusive and diverse, but dissent will not be tolerated.
Nt
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