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BREAKING: The Supreme Court BLOCKS the federal government's COVID-19 vaccine-or-test requirement for large workplaces. The court ALLOWS a vaccine mandate for workers at federally funded health care facilities to take effect nationwide.
Follow Ups:
Today a U.S. judge blocks Biden federal employee COVID vaccine mandate
Thankfully the others still respect the bill of rights.
It was only a Stay so not over. *dissented, have always been terrbile at speeling.
Edits: 01/14/22
Bill of Rights, my fat white ass! Do you have a right to spread a potentially fatal disease? And if it's such a Bill of Rights thing, why did they okay a mandate for healthcare workers.
This SCOTUS is a POS. F*ckers can't think straight.
I think that that contention doesn't quite line up with what I know of "the science".
The mandate for health care workers is indeed an inconsistency in the ruling.
You know as well as I do that unvaxed people have a 17-20X higher chance of getting Covid than vaccinated people.
...it's just changed venues. Like all things Covid, it is now down to State and local politicians, and individual employers/business-owners. Yet another set-back in the battle against the pandemic.
A number of large employers have already announced that they will independently mandate the vaccination/testing requirements as proposed in the Biden mandate.
A majority of businesses (and unions) backed the Federal mandate, because it reduced their liability with respect to providing a safe working environment. Now they are on their own, (or worse) at the mercy of State and local authorities, and will have to evaluate that liability/risk on their own.
It ain't over yet...
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
how easy it is to catch Omicron and how transmissible Omicron might be, it would seem the primary benefit vaccination and boostering provide is near-zero risk of serious disease requiring ICU time or even death.
It would seem that unvaccinated people are of no more risk to me than the vaccinated who have COVID but are asymptomatic.
In fact, the unvaccinated might be of less risk to me as if they are infected they might be sicker and less likely to be out and about where I could be exposed to them.
There are still plenty of Delta variant cases out there, and that is a definite risk.
"Omicron makes up 95% of sequenced Covid cases in U.S."
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Not so sure estimates are correct. See link.
"Omicron now accounts for about 95 percent of COVID cases in the United States, according to the CDC." 1/14/22The CDC said that back on 1/4/22.
On 12/21/21 it was 77% and two weeks before that it was 3%.
So if it was 95% on 1/4/22 I wonder how much higher it is now?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 01/16/22 01/16/22
by a mere 10,000 votes. Georgia by 12,000, Wisconsin by 21,000. Nevada by 33,000."
"Right now, about 60 Arizonans, 36 Georgians, 34 Wisconsinites and 14 Nevadans are dying of Covid each day. That adds up."
Seems to me another prudent reason for some to get vaccinated.
. . . than the vaccinated who have COVID but are asymptomatic."
Ah! You are learning, my son!
"In fact, the unvaccinated might be of less risk to me as if they are infected they might be sicker and less likely to be out and about where I could be exposed to them."
Your progress is accelerating, my son! ;-)
...since many larger companies either subsidize or out-right provide health insurance coverage for their employees. Some are even self-insured. Unions, too, are financially responsible for health insurance/health care costs.
People working with disabilities, or health conditions that make them more vulnerable are also a factor in determination of a safe working environment, and yet another liability for employers to consider.
Biden's mandate (should it have been implemented) basically got everyone (unions and employers) "off the hook". The decision was made for them--now they have to do it on their own.
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
Can we beat the common cold using quarantines?
By now, it strikes me that everyone has been exposed. BTW, when do the infected get an 'I don't need a vaccine' card.
If Pfizer needs more money, let Medicare pay for boosters for the vulnerable like flu shots in season. There mandates don't make sense scientifically versus the risk factors of still experimental vaccines with no long term studies.
-Rod
I worked with blood products for a living and had to have a series of hepatitis vaccines in order to work.
Thanks, jab me up. Who wants hep. 'B'.
Likely some others I don't even remember.
And if you don't like shots, FFS don't enlist. More than a few jabs required, but then we are now a nation of cowards, afraid of a stick in the arm.
Those vaccines are fully tested.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
'Those vaccines are fully tested'
so are these
" In situations when there is good scientific reason to believe that a vaccine is safe and is likely to prevent disease, the FDA may authorize its use through an Emergency Use Authorization (EAU) even if definitive proof of the efficacy of the vaccine is not known, especially for diseases that cause high mortality. "
"After a vaccine is approved and in widespread use, it is critically important to continue to monitor vaccine safety. Some very rare side effects may only be detectable when large numbers of people have been vaccinated."
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
'Some very rare side effects may only be detectable when large numbers of people have been vaccinated'
no vax is perfect, people have reactions to those you seem to think are OK
too
so, as info ...
if your mind is made up don't get one
.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
living on the edge then
but you're not in favor of others getting them?
that's what your posts seem to say
I am in favor of people not being forced to take, what amounts to, an experimental vaccine against their will.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
so you didn't read at the John Hopkins site I linked to?
if you did, but your attention glazed over, or you glossed over what's there to consider because the controversy surrounding Covid vax has become quite tedious, I wouldn't blame you but ...
the salient points and the reason I linked to it are:
drug approvals are determined with either small study groups examined over long periods, or fast tracked using larger groups and shorter periods for efficacy and safety
both paths for approval are valid and regulated by the same agencies and accelerated programs are both in use and applied in emergencies before
the emergent Covid variant was deemed such a significant risk this was done in programs worldwide with unprecedented cooperation, meaning the largest study group in history spanning continents was used before the vaccines were approved across the globe ... that is of the utmost significance evaluating the 'rollout' decisions being made
it's worth exploring the subject at that site as they lay it out and address every medical concern and objection that I've encountered quite accessibly
as for the moral and legal issues involved, that's being chewed over in the media and legal systems on an ongoing basis worldwide as well
most of my family elected to vax probably for much the same reasons as you
for me it's like living a bad dream or horror story in slow motion
I was reflecting the other night that if this was just a horror story and the characters in danger called out for help but wouldn't take it when it arrived I'd probably stop reading or walk out of the movie thinking what dumbasses they were and start rooting for the horror because they had it coming!!
I don't like campy horror flicks very much for that very reason
with regards,
"but your attention glazed over"
Please, endeavor to post without being snarky. It will help you to be taken seriously.
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
"Typical vaccine development timeline
Each clinical trial phase follows completion of the prior phase
Can take a long time to accumulate cases to assess vaccine efficacy outside pandemic
Manufacturing capacity is scaled-up after phase III trial and regulatory approval
Accelerated timeline in a pandemic
Some clinical trial phases are combined
Cases accumulate rapidly to assess vaccine efficacy because of the pandemic
Manufacturing capacity is scaled up during the clinical trials but at financial risk"
Do you know of a list of vaccines developed under the Accelerated timeline in a pandemic?
Tre'
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
It reads like we have always had two ways of developing vaccines.
The "Typical vaccine development timeline" and the "Accelerated timeline in a pandemic".
I don't believe that. I think the Covid vaccine was the first time a vaccine has been developed on the "Accelerated timeline in a pandemic".
Also I think that the Covid vaccine is the first mRNA type.
This is all very new ground.
If I am wrong please show me facts that prove it.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Seems a reasonable position.
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
...quite a few of my family members work (or have worked) in healthcare, and were required to get the annual flu-shot--long before Covid came around. My mother and sister spent a lot of time working in assisted-living and long-term care facilities, and even the residents of those facilities were also required to get the annual flu-shot.
I was required to be vaccinated against whole list of things as a condition of employment. My parents were required to provide proof of my vaccinations to enroll me in the public school system.
Nothing new here.
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
Well, there is a difference. Vaccines regularly given to babies are effective and have been used for decades. Still, there are some risks albeit small.
In the case of an experimental vaccine that is proven to not be a one and done protector, you have to look at the risk pool. If it's a flu shot for those over 65, then fine, let them choose. For children that have risk of some number like .000001% of death, why subject them to the experiment other than to enrich big Pharm?
Have you considered the impact on the immunity system of children? It seems to me that if you never have a cold, then a cold can be deadly. The same with flu? Otherwise, a sterile environment doesn't allow the system to be used to develop.
Use it or lose it. Another crazy thought?
Had we protected the elderly and vulnerable and let the rest get COVID, would be we better off today? I'm curious how history will grade this era. There are surely many mistakes. But then, it depends on who is writing the history.
-Rod
.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
...subject to far less scrutiny due to the state of science/medicine at the time that they were developed.
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
Maybe like you, my wife's side of the family has enough medical professionals to start their own practice - two MDs and four nurses (no insurance/billing experts, though).
Employers can mandate various things, but that's entirely different than the Government telling "us" that vee must comply.
Earlier in my life, I applied for a management position at Circuit City. Remember them? They wanted me to take a drug test and a polygraph. Ha! F that. Maybe that was their way of saying 'we don't want your kind around here'. Too bad. ;)
"My parents were required to provide proof of my vaccinations to enroll me in the public school system."
Ah yes, the heady days of smallpox, polio, measles, etc., when vaccines were all the new rage. Good idea, at the time. Fast forward seventy years...
This is ONE of the problems with having 20 and 30-something year olds managing things. They're not old enough to know enough about anything to tell the rest of us about anything.
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
Where?--McDonald's?, Wendy's?, Taco Hell?. Take a look at the WH, Congress, and the SCOTUS and show me the 20-30 year-old somethings in-charge. Most of the people arguing about SS/Medicare benefits are already receiving them or eligible for them. The man in the Oval Office hasn't had a "real job" since at least a decade before my daughters were born--and one is a lawyer, the other a doctor.
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
I was referring to the people we often see being interviewed on the "news". Marketing managers, VPs, Director of Operations, etc., etc. Wet-behind-the-ears, yet thinking they know everything.
With regard to the man in the oval office, he's been sucking at the taxpayer's teet for as long as I can remember, and hasn't accomplished a damn thing except to become wealthy from it. And you can take that to the bank.
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
bankrupting himself (with much collateral damage) and many others with illegal, unethical, and just plain sleazy practices, when he wasn't busy (well-documented) simply defrauding others. JB, at least, has SOME elements of basic decency in him.
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
...and they've been all but eradicated. Note that their reappearance/resurgence is among the "my rights/anti-vaxxer" crowd. But, somehow, most of us who were forced to get vaccinated are still here?--a far higher percentage than prior to vaccinations.
Perhaps the anti-vaxxers are right?--the world would be in a much better place without all of the excess population of those "saved" by "modern medicine". Sometimes I wonder that myself...
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
"Note that their reappearance/resurgence is among the "my rights/anti-vaxxer" crowd."And the tsunami of illegals coming into our country, with the smiling faces and open arms of the Dem Party.
Oh, and, don't forget tuberculosis.
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
Edits: 01/15/22
Clear sign you know you're incorrect about the historical context of vaccinations that DD points out.
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
...Biden asked nicely that they stay at home and wait their turn for immigration applications/hearings?
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
and be happy.
'don't make sense scientifically versus the risk factors of still experimental vaccines with no long term studies'
obviously you read that somewhere, but didn't you post that you yourself and family members have been vaxxed? in any event ...
you state the way the vaccination roll-out during the pandemic isn't being handled scientifically or safely, based on your laymen understanding of the subject, yet I've seen zero strenuous objections posted by you about people self prescribing and dosing Ivermectin which also has no long term studies, but sure gets a lot of posting 'traffic' here ... despite short term studies showing no efficacy and grave health effects ... is it the gov't paranoia connection, since it's not CDC approved it's OK?
in any event, perhaps go to the link and read a genuine scientific medical walk through on the subject for perspective. hopefully you'll have some level of trust in John Hopkins?
couldn't hurt, could it?
Health records. HIPAA. Ha! The current Federal government is attempting to ignore Federal government laws.
Huh. Tell me something new.
"I am number 2. You are number 6."
We're getting there, slowly but surely.
As a top U.S. official said just the other day, words to the effect of: "We can try a second time."
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
'The current Federal government is attempting to ignore Federal government laws'
do you have a citation for that? the act no. and violation?
not a link to an opinion piece, real citation[s]
thanx
No. Anyone who pays attention knows this.
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
no, of course you don't ...
just running your yap and brown nosing again
No one has time to run around and correct all your misinformation. You should start doing that yourself.
I SAID show me the violation NOT a link to an opinion piece!!learn how to read, and if your brain can afford it, pay attention
the courts said a rule could be effected for medical workers, not others
so it wasn't
the 'current' Fed. Gov't has gone about it's business legally
got anything else?
Edits: 01/15/22
I disagree with it. They were resigned to losing that battle from the start, knew it was unconstitutional.
And now I found out that the AG asked the school boards to ask the feds for help with parents. So he started that whole thing.
...employers, schools, and universities can make it a condition of employment or enrollment. These individual "mandates" already exist, and have for decades--dress codes, uniform requirements, drug-testing, codes of conduct, even vaccination requirements.
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
,
I worship only myself and the creator, which is one. So that includes you too. And even the orange king and Brandon. The best thing about orangey is both sides were scrambling in fear. I certainly enjoyed that. Like a guilty pleasure.
...thank you! I'm with the Chinese on this one. If it's a "lock-down" it's a lock-down. If you won't quarantine or isolate, We'll do it for you--get on the truck, we've got "accommodations" for you.
F**k this "recommendation" BS--shit or get off the pot. Everyone making up their "own rules"--I believe that is "anarchy". Is that your objective?
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
,
This is not about political parties. There is an approx. 30-40-30 split.
30 are aware of the global geopolitical forces that are imposing on nation states.
40 don't have time for this crap and will follow the herd (they can still be opinionated, even though they don't have time for it).
30 are victims of mass psychosis and will do anything asked of them to ease the pain. Be kind.
protection against becoming infected with Omicron.
While being vaccinated provides only a limited 30-odd-percent protection the booster nearly doubles that. OK, not so much considering how infectious Omicron is, but a lot better that not being vaccinated at all.
Add that to the fact that the US sports a mere 20% boosted rate? That means lots of folks infected.
"Add that to the fact that the US sports a mere 20% boosted rate? That means lots of folks infected."Remember that none of the vaccines were available in the U.S. until late November/early December of 2020, when Trump was President (maybe you have the exact date).
In the case of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, there is a time period of two to four weeks between the first shot and the second.
Initially, these vaccines were only available to "older people" (I don't remember the exact age, but something like 75) and "high risk" people.
It wasn't until the Spring of 2021 when others could get the vaccine, and even then, a person had to make an appointment which could be well over a month away - for their FIRST innoculation. People who casually talk about the current situation may forget the timeline and restrictions of the "rollout".
"Boosters" weren't even available or recommended until this past Fall, and only came to the forefront when the Omicron variant emerged.
As a result, it's no surprise that you've cited a statistic that only 20 percent of vaccinated Americans are "boosted".
I expect that number to increase dramatically over the next month or two, as more people become "eligible" for a booster. I've noted that the originally recommended time period has been reduced from six months to four months.
Do keep us posted on your source's data updates! And, I'd be pleased to read replies which have better specifics on the timeline than I can remember off the top of my head.
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
Edits: 01/14/22
...with respect to protection offered by the vaccines are equivalent to, or better than a "good year" for the annual influenza vaccine (flu shot). The annual flu shot has NEVER reached even 50% efficacy. That's what irks me about the opinion of the Covid vaccines--"if it's not 99%+, it isn't worth a shit". Not true!--and we're decades into the annual influenza vaccine--not just a year and change.
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
for saying that
Edits: 01/14/22
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