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1.36.2.22
In Reply to: RE: Utube Drivel.. again. posted by bare on November 19, 2021 at 09:12:36
Biden's plan may be also be seen as "state-run protectionism" which is what it is. Such a program isn't very "capitalist" which is all about survival of the fittest and competition. A Rebate from the government has to be paid for by taxpayers - the folks who don't believe Climate Change is real (most Trump supporters) so how happy will they be that that $12,000 is coming out of their wallets - the car company is still getting that $12,000! They are being SUBSIDIZED (you know socialism for corporations) by the guys buying gas-guzzling Hummers. All in order to PROTECT car manufacturers who are no longer "competitive" anymore.It's funny that capitalism is always championed up until the moment the US starts losing at their own game - gotta bail out the banks, bail out the US auto industry, gotta bail out the farmers - always rely on Socialism when the US is in trouble and just call it something else like an emergency bailout. Socialism for the rich, rugged capitalism for everyone else.
Worse than that - everyone else in the world recognizes the hypocrisy so it's tough to take it seriously when some loudmouth blasts a Chinese company for being state-owned because the company is subsidized by their government when the USA does exactly the same thing.
I don't really blame the US government - they need to protect their workers' jobs - workers who vote.
Follow Ups:
...taxpayers helping the affluent buy expensive cars.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
There are many reasons why EV rebates for the rich is a stupid idea. As a thoughtful person, I'm curious what you think about Dr. Curry's perspective.
-Rod
She really lost me here.....
"""Theme 2: Is relentless consumption and growth to blame for our current predicament?
I'm not sure what our current predicament actually is, other than the one manufactured by the global politics surrounding climate change. More prosperous societies overall have a smaller impact on their environment than countries that engage in whole-scale exploitation of their environment just to survive."" "
Keep Your Hands Clean,
John K
Laughing...
Yo timie, it's amusing but I did a search and couldn't find one of your posts talking about all the trillions and trillions of tax dollars spent on unnecessary wars and mass murder. Why is that?
"Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. "S'chn T'gai Spock --- "Or the one"
James T. Kirk
Are you referring to Xi'Dumb funding radical terrorists with $85 BILLION in military grade weaponry so it can start yet another war(s) ?
If so, I did condemn that here only to have those posts censored/deleted soon to be followed by some people here posting that was Xi'Dumb's #1 "achievement". Certainly an achievement for the enemies of the USA, but not an achievement for the USA.
The climate has been changing since the dawn of time. Climate alarmist just discovered they could fleece the world and cash in on it, BIGLY.
Firstly, Greta is not a scientist isn't really an argument - no one says she is. She is an activist. A pretty big distinction. But that's ok - you follow what you're good at so if the dweeby zero personality scientist too shy to speak in public does what they're good at - the science.Now one of the mistakes that is continually made on this forum is to hold up a small minority of scientists who have been DEBUNKED numerous times by the vast majority of the scientific community - it doesn't matter if they got a PhD in science or hold powerful positions - especially without knowing how they got their position.
What matters is the science, and Judith Curry is one of the most debunked "scientists" in all of science. It's baffling to me why if 99.9% of the world's scientists say the earth is round - people will latch onto the 3 people calling it flat and then THROW OUT the 99.9% And that is precisely what you are doing when you latch onto the odd crazy.
Whenever you see that "one nut" touted on a Facebook meme look them up to see how they are held in scientific circles.
I am not a Climate scientist and neither are you and neither is Greta - smart people go with the majority of the scientific community because "buying off thousands of scientists" is a silly conspiracy - buying off one or two is probably not. So if one is to be a conspiracy theorist - it would make more sense that they (whoever they are) bought off one scientist than the 99.9% percent all around the world.
The earth is round. Climate Change isn't a hoax.
The reason people believe in these one-off scientists is a hubris belief system where they want to be right where everyone else is wrong. I know the "truth" and it's everyone else who is a blind sucker. No different than the people coming to my door with the truth about the afterlife.
https://skepticalscience.com/Judith_Curry_arg.htmAll the CC myths debunked with evidence and explanations
https://skepticalscience.com/argument.phphttps://archive.thinkprogress.org/judith-curry-abandons-science-e13059a66c99/
https://www.city-journal.org/global-warming
A published article does not mean the article is correct - something folks here seem to not understand.
And Curry was specifically debunked here
" Next, Curry invited Tol to submit a detailed critique of the two papers that she had highlighted. He obliged. On that thread, Steven Mosher congratulates Tol for an
...incisive demolition of these two papers. I note the absence of any credible defense of the papers and a high incidence of topic changing.. look at the sunshine.. for example. A bad paper neatly dispatched as you did is a good teaching tool. However, some won't learn and they use the bad paper as an occasion to thread jack.." https://www.discovermagazine.com/environment/is-judith-curry-peddling-disinformation
Again when the majority of science and all of the major scientific "bodies" back something that something tends to be true.
Lastly, use logic and consider these two points:
Point 1: Consider that the only reason folks hold up Judith Curry's opinion to be TRUE is that she has scientific credentials. She is right because she is a scientist.
Point2: If you hold 1 to be true why are you throwing out the 99% of even MORE qualified more renowned scientists who say the opposite? surely if Science credentials were key then why hold to one - unless there is some other motivation beyond science.
There are some scientists with Biology degrees who are creationists. They deliberately got PhDs in Biology in order to hold the credential and then claim creationism is real not Darwin. And those guys have been debunked as cranks. It's not like statistics or measurements can't be used with nefarious ends - but it's far more difficult to bribe higher numbers of people. Big Tobacco had a few scientists under their control - it took 50 years but these guys were found out (incidentally the same scientists claiming MMCC is a hoax).
Read the Book or see the film (as they have all the cited sources in their credits called Merchants of Doubt where they actually possess the papers by the scientists working at the big gas companies who on paper found they were causing Climate change - stone-cold evidence. And their engineers even began doing the right thing to try and combat it - but once it was too expensive - they dropped it. Documentary evidence of it. It's cheaper to spin and buy off some scientists than it is to fix the problem.
Not much different than the Ford Pinto - cheaper to pay off lawsuits than fix the gas tanks.
Edits: 11/19/21
Yes, I read it and it's always a bit of a red flag when they are constantly bolding words. There are too many moving targets. She has been debunked regarding her scientific competency so why is she on any panel discussing a damn thing? You should have actual competent high-quality scientists not second-rate bums and cranks on panels.As for the actual content about governments' lack of action and rather dopey solutions - yes I agree and so do many climate scientists. Electric Cars aren't going to save us. I mean I won't be here to care and I suspect most of those in powers aren't that interested in 2100.
Still - when it comes to science which is different from political blabber - I'd skip the memes and go to the majority science - not the cranks.
Edits: 11/19/21
. . . but it was buried inside of a larger thread. The gist of it is that perhaps there's more hope for us than there seems to be right now, even if governments don't do what they should:
View YouTube Video
A larger selection of videos from this source:
Thanks for that - I am generally a pessimist - I always expect the worst so that when it happens I am not disappointed and if something rises above my expectations then I feel joy - thus I feel like a very happy-go-lucky pessimist.
Thanks for the link. My view somewhat mirrors George Carlin who notes that the planet will go on just fine without the human race. I combine Carlin's stand up routine on saving the planet with Carl Sagan's Blue dot. to keep things in perspective.
George for a laugh and to keep me in check. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W33HRc1A6c
I get hot under the collar when bad guys go free but after I cool down I take solace in the notion that in the greater scheme of things it matters not - all the bad guys are gonna die. Sooner or later.
Perhaps it's because Carl has a great vocal quality or the poetry of the Pale Blue Dot.
I don't believe the article would claim that climate change isn't real at all. Rather that the totality of the models is complex.
The hoax is that the policy makers won't solve the problem and conventional thinking does not consider the environmental impacts and costs which will have adverse economic impacts and have little or worse adverse effects..
Did you actually read the article?
-Rod
The holy financial industry will deliver a climate change policy because they all saw the light and from now on will serve the public interest.
Indeed.
If you 'follow the money' you'll find that 'the money' is desperate to discredit climate change as it is heavily invested in fossil fuels and loses badly from a shift to renewables.
if only we could trust in what is being fed to everyone there might be some kind of progress on this subject. Please don't wet you panties anyone, I do believe that the earth has a history of climate change and we are in a period of a warming aspect. It brings with it assorted reactions of 'change' here on earth. And population and CO2 have an effect on this. The "science" is far from a Science when it comes from politicians and scientists whose motives are in question, any question.
Using it for political and monetary advantages is a problem right now. It's out of any kind of definitive control. Look at Al Gore years ago making it a movement. I have movements every day.
"Look at Al Gore years ago making it a movement."
Al Gore should've been put into a lockbox. ;)
I remember him calling people names - "flat earthers", "deniers", etc. back about 20 years ago. That same tactic has been used by the unwitting disciples among the populace who buy into the "models" and "projections" hook, line and sinker - if you can't win the argument based on science, just start name-calling.
Speaking of science, where is it? All I see and hear are models, projections, and scare tactics. Where is the science which unequivocally states that the Earth has warmed X degrees over the past hundred years and that Y amount of it was due to nature. I'd be very interested in reading that.
I'm also very interested in knowing what companies will benefit from taxpayer money being spent as part of the gigantic "infrastructure" and "make America great again" legislation. Exactly what companies will benefit from that? And, are they donors to the Democrat Party and/or to Joe Biden and/or Kamala Harris and/or to other politicians? Obviously, all of us want to know the answers to those and other questions.
****
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