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Kyle Rittenhouse found "not guilty" on five (count 'em FIVE)counts.
Two dead, one wounded in his wake.
If you ever feel like shooting someone, just travel to Kenosha, Wis., taking whatever gun of whatever caliber and capability you like.
But don't litter or jaywalk. They'll get you for that.
Follow Ups:
It's been a big part of this story from the beginning. The fixation on crossing state lines, as if that were significant. The number of people who thought he crossed state lines with the gun, even though that was debunked a year ago. The amount of readily available video proving that it was clearly self-defense.
You can go watch live streams on Youtube that record the evening and give great context to the whole event.
But leftards don't want reality. They want to continue asserting the nonsense they've been getting from cnn, msnbc, etc. You want to fixate on whether he should've been there rather than whether people should've been burning cars. So many of you are appalling human beings, makes my skin crawl.
cognitive dissonance = "fun" + "makes my skin crawl"
Who doesn't enjoy watching terrible people suffer a little bit? I'm only human.
You won't think crossing state lines with an AR-15 is so insignificant when the copycat punk teen vigilantes start doing it in numbers. Or maybe you will.
Thanks.
...defend Ashli Babbitt.
Her demise is a sad but powerful example of what happens when police actually do their job so that the amateur Rittenhouse's of the world don't need to step up.
I don't defend ashley babbitt. You can argue the cop shouldn't have shot her but it's weak. She was participating in a riot that was forcefully entering a building. She forced law enforcement to make a judgement call and she guessed wrong. It's similar to the Jacob Blake shooting. Maybe the cop shouldn't have shot him but he had a knife and appeared to be in the process of kidnapping his ex's kids. Don't force these decisions on cops and there's pretty much zero chance of getting shot.
good point, there's some equivalence there
he won't answer my question on illegal strawman gun purchases
I guess the cat got his tongue
so don't expect a response unless it's name calling or some stupid meme
apparently that's how he rolls!
regards,
Because Russia and China love rebel do-gooders:
Frank Figliuzzi
@FrankFigliuzzi1
Divide & conquer: A sample of 32,315 pro-Rittenhouse hashtag tweets, Nov 19-20, showed 29,609 with disabled geolocation. Of those, 17,701 were listed as "foreign", but a deep scrub revealed most of those were in Russia, China, and the EU.
@Tara_Writer
@TAPSTRIMEDIA
#Rittenhouse
of course they'd jump on the controversy and use it
and Rittenhouse is young enough that it's a 'wedgie' issue
; )
"If not for double standards, liberals would have no standards at all"
you don't even know who you're quoting there do you!
I don't have double standards
but YOU go ahead and give it a shot BCR
what did that kid step in and do that 'the adults' were 'utter failures' at?
I'm quoting Chris Plante. Give him a Google!
typical ...
so, what did that kid step in and do that 'the adults' were 'utter failures' at?
you apparently agreed with the statement go ahead and explain why
no? don't feel like it now? you've better things to do?
typical
'people who thought he crossed state lines with the gun, even though that was debunked a year ago'
the explanation offered for how he obtained a firearm that he couldn't legally possess is actually even more damning, the lack of follow up too!
he sent money to someone in another state who did a strawman purchase
the Federal Gun Control Act, 1968 makes this straw purchase a felony
his 'friend' should have been sent up on charges; hear anything about that?
'rather than whether people should've been burning cars'
prove that the people he shot were burning cars ... we'll wait
then show us the statute for the death penalty for 'simple' arson
'give great context to the whole event'
I watched the unedited video and it doesn't show what you say it shows
there's no video of Rittenhouse sucker punching a 100lb. high school girl or sticking his gun in the face of a nerdy protestor prior to the fatal events of that night, but there's testimony that he did ... both acts being illegal of course
but try addressing the whole post, or none of it
I don't want to try pulling answers out of you like teeth 'rightard'
be well,
You're an infant
you might recall that I posted: 'but try addressing the whole post'too big an ask eh? you didn't even try answering any of it
why? you've had a lot to say up until now, mostly BS, insults and slander but still ...
let's try baby steps:
do you approve of illegal strawman purchases for obtaining weapons?
Edits: 11/21/21
changing the subject isn't some clever new tactic you just invented.
it's not a change of subject, the question is integral to the entire proceedings of what happened
you made the point that Rittenhouse didn't cross state lines with an illegal weapon, and said anyone basing any judgements on the assertion were [idiots flop around in their cognitive dissonance]
as it turns out there was an illegal strawman purchase involved
maybe the dysfunctional biased court missed it, but I call foul!
so do you approve of illegal strawman purchases for obtaining weapons?
concentrate! you can do this: yes or no?
don't be an 'infant' man up and answer!
You've got nothing.
'You've got nothing'
the facts aren't mine, they're just facts, and I shared them so ...
you can't step up with an answer? guess I kicked your ass then, typical
I know what happened ... you don't have talking points covering this
you'll be back slinging insults, slander & BS once you're told what to think
well, sleep tight, you did the best you could
you've got nothing.
nothing is about you or me, never will be, never was
Edits: 11/21/21
"I watched the unedited video and it doesn't show what you say it shows"
Where can we see that video?
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
you're saying that you need:
This is one of the problems with trying to have a conversation with some people here.
I asked a simple question.
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
'I asked a simple question'
your lonely cry for binary answers in a complex world falls on ...
well, I was going to say deaf, but they're really indifferent ears
good luck with your simple questions!
I asked a simple question: Provide a link to the unedited video which you saw. You've replied twice, without the simple piece of information which I asked for. Maybe the third time is the charm.
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
charm, you're middle name.
"Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. "S'chn T'gai Spock --- "Or the one"
James T. Kirk
Don't attack someone that has a firearm. They may shoot you. Legally.
There is Hope, yet, in Wisconsin.
Likewise, if you ever feel like looting and rioting, just travel to Kenosha, Wis. ("But don't litter or jaywalk. They'll get you for that.")"City property valued at $2 million was destroyed by rioters, including garbage trucks, street lights and traffic signals.[5] Kenosha's mayor requested $30 million in aid from the state to cover the extensive damage.[68] Damage to private property could be as high as $50 million, according to estimates from the Kenosha Area Business Alliance. This includes the 100-year-old Danish Brotherhood Lodge which was burned down when 40 buildings were destroyed and an additional 100 buildings damaged.[6][69]"
Had Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers acted sooner to fulfill government's responsibility to ensure peace and maintain order, more than likely, this tragedy (the shootings) would have been prevented. A travesty of governance? Hmmm."Day 3: August 25
The Kenosha County Board sent a letter to Governor Evers requesting the deployment of an additional 2,000 national guardsmen.[42] Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth asserted that most of the damage was from individuals with no intent to protest and who were not from Kenosha County. Governor Evers declared a state of emergency for the region, sending in 250 troops from the Wisconsin National Guard to the city.[43]"(The shootings occured on August 25)
"Day 4: August 26
Protests continued peacefully with chants and sidewalk art in a park near the courthouse, followed by a march. Riot police and National Guard troops did not have a visible presence.[50]The Kenosha County Board sent a second letter to Governor Evers requesting the deployment of an additional 1,500 national guardsmen. "Our county is under attack," the board wrote in the letter. "Our businesses are under attack. Our homes are under attack. Our local law enforcement agencies need additional support to help bring civility back to our community."[42]"
Edits: 11/19/21
All of that is irrelevant if the "volunteer" isn't mentally and physically prepared to handle experienced, riotous crowds.I know cops and behind closed doors they will say that these amateurs make their jobs even more difficult and dangerous.
Rittenhouse didn't break Wisconsin's laws. That doesn't mean he did the right thing.
Rit's lawyer relates that he regrets going there.
Let it be a lesson to all couch commandos.
Edits: 11/19/21
Drive as fast as we're comfortable with, never mind whether it is reasonable.
jd,
My first sentence was not about the "volunteer". My point was that if one says (as BillH did) "If you ever feel like shooting someone, just travel to Kenosha, Wis...", then one can also say "Likewise, if you ever feel like looting and rioting, just travel to Kenosha, Wis."
Otherwise, I agree with your post.
And Tucker Carlson embedded at the insistence of the people paying the bills.
the 'B' team prosecution didn't mount much of a case either
the DA had other things to do ... sent a deputy DA
the damn judge acted like his nephew was up on charges and ran interference
while performing a Judge Alito crossed with Roy Bean impersonation
yeah, travesty indeed
The DA knew this case was a loser, OBVIOUSLY. good lord.
that judge was either incompetent or an activist jurist through his pretrial decisions, the jury instructions, the trial, and the post trial deliberation instructions ... while the State mounted an incompetent prosecution starting with their charging documents on gun charges, then throughout the trial ... such as ignoring the judge's instructions on what was admissible evidence, and ignoring / not pouncing on the defendants statement that he defended himself using 'deadly force' ... an admission he intended to shoot to kill!!
the whole affair should have been a mistrial and adjudicated again
good lord indeed
Here's the first shooting. The pedo is chasing him and when Rittenhouse hits a dead end he turns around and has no choice.
https://twitter.com/craniumthatboy/status/1458360044571926533
This is some context for the first shooting. It's clear that Rittenhouse is not the aggressor at any point up until the actual shooting starts at 2:33. This has multiple video sources all synced. I would say it's clear that it was self-defense since he's running away and being chased. He's fleeing through a parking lot at 2:28 with a guy chasing about 10 feet back. The chaser throws something at him at 2:30. The chaser follows him behind a car where there's not a great camera angle. First shot at 2:33 followed by several more from 2:35 to 2:39.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0sg2FLpwdA
The next two shooting are well recorded and it's clear that rioters are chasing him down and assaulting him. You can see at 0:15 he's on the ground and several rioters are in hot pursuit. The first shot misses a guy who is right on top of him at 0:17. That guy seems to think better of the confrontation and scampers off. At 0:18 another one is on top of him, takes a bullet, and quickly collapses. At 0:19 yet another is approaching very close and he's holding a handgun. Rittenhouse points the rifle at him and he appears to be having second thoughts before making a second attempt to rush him and getting his arm shot at 0:22. These were both Darwin awards style shootings where morons thought physically attacking a guy holding an AR was the thing to do.
https://nypost.com/2020/08/26/illinois-teen-charged-in-fatal-shooting-of-2-kenosha-rioters/
Also, it's been known for over a year that he didn't bring the gun to Kenosha from Illinois. Anyone who still thinks that and has an opinion on this case is ridiculous. Limiting yourself to fake news leaves you ignorant.
...and reading all the posts, I'll leave you with one question. How do we achieve "justice" when EVERYONE involved is guilty? (of something).
Jacob Blake was no "angel"--everyone conveniently forgets that--"Blake had a warrant for his arrest from July, based on charges of third-degree sexual assault, trespassing, and disorderly conduct in connection with domestic abuse." Cops come on the scene like an episode of "The A-Team". "Peaceful" protesters--aka arsonists and looters--cause millions of dollars in damage to public and private property/businesses. Both sides (protesters and counter-protesters) are armed--people get threatened, harmed, and/or killed.
Then we embark on a trial--with an over-zealous prosecutor trying to get his name in the papers, and a clearly biased judge. Let's not forget the "distraught mother" who thought it was OK for her 17 year-old son to buy an assault rifle and then travel to Kenosha to participate in this train-wreck. What could possibly go wrong?
Rittenhouse walked--right or wrong?--does it even really matter? He's far removed from the "cause" of all of this--an accused criminal with outstanding warrants resisting arrest (again).
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
How does a cop -- in the fog of rioting --figure out which guy is the bad guy, Rittenhouse or Blake?
One twist of fate and Rittenhouse could have been dead.
being an "accused criminal" is a death sentence in the U.S. ?
Also, I do not condone vandalism or looting at all, but is that a death penalty for the pre-trial suspects ?
...resisting arrest is a crime. So are arson and looting. You have a warrant out for your arrest ONLY if you are a criminal or valid suspect in a criminal case--as determined/issued by a judge.
If you run, or confront law-enforcement, all bets are off. Sorry. And then we burn and loot because some criminal didn't comply with law-enforcement?
"Because he was black" is NOT a valid defense--not with outstanding warrants or caught in the commission of a crime--Sorry.
NONE of this would have happened if the CRIMINAL WITH AN OUTSTANDING WARRANT had just surrendered.
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
Blake had a knife in his hand when he ran to the car. It was clearly visible in some picture or video I saw at the time. Speculation was that he wanted to put hide it to avoid a weapons charge so he ran to throw it in the car at the same time the police were chasing/shooting him. The only possible reason I can imagine for him having the knife out is he was threatening his ex. Great guy. Had the cops let him drive off with the kids they'd have been in trouble I think. From their perspective what else could he have been doing. They stopped him and got in trouble anyway.
I was watching Scott Adams yesterday and he thinks society is in the process of realizing that not only is the other guy's news fake, theirs is too. The media plays a pivotal role in getting people worked up. The manipulative, dishonest nature of news organizations is the one thing people need to really grasp.
Almost anyone could have shot and killed Rittenhouse that evening and snippets of video would have justified the killing. That dude with a handgun could have blasted him and walked away without any charges (provided he was a legal possessor of guns).When he was running away from the initial shooting people could reasonably believe they were chasing a murderer and after he fell and lifted the weapon he was fair game to be shot by anyone who believed he was a fleeing killer getting ready to kill others.
I'm not arguing he wasn't not guilty - I believe the jury reached the correct verdict given the law. Those same exact laws would have protected any number of people who killed Rittenhouse - say if the guy busted his head open with his boots, or if the guy with the skate board broke his neck. They too would have a similar defense.
They are just stupid laws.
Edits: 11/19/21 11/19/21
that the fact they can all run around legally with guns is the real shame?
Many Americans agree with them despite that idea being disproved by damn near the entire rest of the world. Doesn't matter, it has no effect on the Wyatt Earps of the U.S. Considering their mentality, the money/power of the gun lobby, the corruption of our politicians, a Supreme Court that basically ensured that corruption and the astounding number of guns already in circulation there is no hope of this absurd situation changing for the better.
We have our own version of insane rebel leaders and brutal dictators who want to arm young boys for the streets. They'll be calling for enslaving girls next.
In sparsely populated places where the nearest cop is 60 miles away, it makes sense to carry a gun and loosen self defense laws.
In densely-populated cities...not so much. : )
Since the cops weren't doing their jobs they might as well have been 1,000 miles away.
I am in my late 50s. I would not in any way want to be much younger and have the likelihood of living many more decades in what our society is becoming. So much of it is rapidly just turning into grim, indecent, undisciplined, and dehumanized trash. And, yes, I understand the irony of saying it in this setting, but I believe that the Internet is one of the prime (but certainly not only) driving forces for what's happening. It started out with great promise, yet that promise is quickly being betrayed.
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
and I don't know what else to say
Maybe if the US governments were more effective in fighting crime and society less greedy the situation would be different.
I went to Cabela's a few weeks ago and the biggest line was to the gun section with customers dressed in a predictable fashion. I enjoyed blondies with ginormous tits wearing checkers shirts immensely and hanged out for a while there, while the beer bellied machos were posing with their rifles. You don't get to see it in any other place in a civilized world.
The old used hunting guns they had there were beautiful though. A true art objects in a way. Wouldn't mind having them as collectibles.
...and as a responsible, legal gun-owner, I'll continue to be so. IF you get past the gates, the security system/cameras, and my German Shepherd, you better pray that I'm not home. Sad that is has to be this way, but decades of "coddling" career criminals and poor-parenting has brought us here.
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
Thank you, John. That is the ultimate point.
The guns aren't the problem. That people think burning cars is ok is a problem. The police not being allowed to do their jobs is a problem. That anyone on earth thought Rosenbaum should ever be out of prison is a problem. Guns were the solution to the problem.
Nt.
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
He stepped in when the adults proved to be utter failures.
'He stepped in when the adults proved to be utter failures'
yes! the Kenosha LEO should have been gunning people down in the streets!!
that's your vision for America?
you should emigrate to a Police State if you don't like the US Constitution
just a suggestion
be well,
"yes! the Kenosha LEO should have been gunning people down in the streets!!
that's your vision for America?"
Obviously, you disagree with Ornery. But, then, you go off on a tangent, as quoted above.
Ornery wrote nothing of the sort - you just made that up in your head.
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
You're unhinged
I am? then explain 'He stepped in when the adults proved to be utter failures' ... his stepping in was to shoot three people, two died
so what did you mean by this statement?
he didn't stop shit that night other than two heartbeats
go ahead, explain ....
There is no country in the world where this makes sense to anybody, except America and Americans.
It's insane.
Keep Your Hands Clean,
John K
I've been living here since dirt was invented and I've never experienced anything like what went on there.
you're not that old!
Could have, could have, could have, if, if, if.
Next, let's focus on the a-holes in Seattle, Portland, Baltimore, Minneapolis, Los Angeles, etc., etc.
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
"Next, let's focus on the a-holes in Seattle, Portland, Baltimore, Minneapolis, Los Angeles, etc., etc."
What about the "a-holes" in Dallas? Are they part of the "etc., etc."?
Yea that Portland thing was cold blooded murder. That killing was so stupid it might have been tough to spin it as self defense. Thankfully we didn't have to witness another mockery of gun ownership and self defense / justification statutes.
The gun groups and militias already know how to justify using their firearms - big case like this sure as heck lots more a-holes are going to have a clue.
utter nonsense. Rittenhouse shot people who were actively attacking him and nobody else. "reasonably believe they were chasing a murderer" isn't justification for attacking someone. What if someone shouted he raped a white woman? Can they lynch him?
The man shot someone and ran away. Normally folks who go after someone who does such a thing are considered heroes. But apparently not in this case.This is what happens when a childlike 17 year old buys a gun illegally and who worked for a week as a lifeguard and was involved in some fireman sponsored children's program anoints himself a medic and a Law Enforcement Officer.
Let's hope members of that militia group, the business that permitted them on his property, Rittenhouse's family and the family that facilitated his purchase and storage of the gun get taken to the cleaners with civil suits.
I agree though the whole thing is utter nonsense. Responsible gun owners are embarrassed by this kind of outcome.
Edits: 11/19/21
I've posted this (in this thread)--as a responsible and legal gun-owner, I was appalled when the weapons charges were dropped. AND I'd have charged his mother as an accessory to all of his alleged crimes.
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
So idiotic. Grosskreutz should have to reimburse Rittenhouse for the price of a round of .223. Self-defense is legal, sorry.
'he didn't bring the gun to Kenosha from Illinois'
it was waiting for him ... it was bought for him
that might have been illegal depending on circumstances
it's illegal for a minor to own that piece in Illinois and for a minor to open carry in Wisconsin ... particularly loaded
as you said earlier the adults [law enforcement] should have intervened and held him on sight instead of letting him dog their heels armed
crazy stuff
"Open carry is legal anywhere concealed carry is legal. It is legal for all adults unless they are prohibited from possession of firearms. Wisconsin state law 948.60(2)(a) states: "Any person under 18 years of age who possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor." However, the exceptions are: "when a person under 18 possesses a rifle or shotgun""Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 11/19/21
'However, the exceptions are: "when a person under 18 possesses a rifle or shotgun""
Tre' ... that's incorrect or poorly worded on that Wiki page
the statute doesn't make an exception and goes on to state that if the gun discharges and hurts or kills someone it's automatically charged as a felony ... probably to discourage young wet behind the ears hit men
read at the link or ... here's the actual statute:
948.60(2)(a)(a) Any person under 18 years of age who possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
948.60(2)(c) (c) Whoever violates par. (b) is guilty of a Class H felony if the person under 18 years of age under par. (b) discharges the firearm and the discharge causes death to himself, herself or another.
[this goes on to say that those under 18yrs. can't carry sawed off long guns period; those are automatically in the felony class]
948.60(3)(c) (c) This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 *or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593*
[the below describes what sawed off weapons are]
941.28  Possession of short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle.
(1)  In this section:
(a) "Rifle" means a firearm designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder or hip and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of a propellant in a metallic cartridge to fire through a rifled barrel a single projectile for each pull of the trigger.
(b) "Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels having a length of less than 16 inches measured from closed breech or bolt face to muzzle or a rifle having an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(c) "Short-barreled shotgun" means a shotgun having one or more barrels having a length of less than 18 inches measured from closed breech or bolt face to muzzle or a shotgun having an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(d) "Shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder or hip and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of a propellant in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.
(2) No person may sell or offer to sell, transport, purchase, possess or go armed with a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle.
(3) Any person violating this section is guilty of a Class H felony.
(4) This section does not apply to the sale, purchase, possession, use or transportation of a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle to or by any armed forces or national guard personnel in line of duty, any peace officer of the United States or of any political subdivision of the United States or any person who has complied with the licensing and registration requirements under 26 USC 5801 to 5872. This section does not apply to the manufacture of short-barreled shotguns or short-barreled rifles for any person or group authorized to possess these weapons. The restriction on transportation contained in this section does not apply to common carriers. This section shall not apply to any firearm that may be lawfully possessed under federal law, or any firearm that could have been lawfully registered at the time of the enactment of the national firearms act of 1968.
*or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593
those describe hunting restrictions for 12yrs. old and under and certification for bow hunting respectively
Was there a sawed off long gun?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
no Tre` that wasn't the point ... the statute states ANYONE UNDER 18yrs. OLD is guilty of a class A misdemeanor doing open carry ... it DOESN'T say it's OK if it's a shot-gun or rifle ... it also states if the weapon discharges [either accidentally or on purpose] it's no longer a misdemeanor, it's a felony
section C says if they're under 18yrs. old and it's sawed off it's automatically a class H felony whether it discharges or not
Rittenhouse committed a felony under WI gun laws, the judge dismissed the gun charges pre-trial [because the prosecution bungled the charging documents] instructing the jury they could only decide if his actions were self defense or murder ... before the jury 'got the case' for deliberations he stated they could decide if lesser charges applied [manslaughter of the 'X' degree] but didn't fully explain this was the option, only that there was one
that was a mistrial top to bottom
regards,
.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
I did misinterpret the statute but haven't had the opportunity to retract the statements yet, so thanks for this, I would have come around to it eventually
now I'm stuck on the strawman buy of the weapon
the whole situation is starting to smell ... pretty bad
with regards,
I wonder if it would have made a difference if it were his father buying the gun for him? Would that have still been a "strawman" buy?
17 is too young to own the gun but not too young to be in possession of the gun. I believe that is what WI law says. I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with it but to understand what happened in the trial we have to understand WI laws.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
agreed ... but I managed to misinterpret WI gun law on open carry. my police officer stepson stepped in and pointed this out an hour or two before you posted. he also said in so many words, that if someone makes a mistake on the letter of the law it's best to err conservatively ...anyway, the strawman rules for gun purchases are at the Fed level requiring State compliance ... and from this gun owners association site:
[quotes on]
"if a father were to buy his son a firearm and didn't plan on being the owner and primary user of the weapon himself, it would qualify as a straw purchase.
The name comes from "strawman" - in this sense, the purchaser is buying the weapon for a strawman user who isn't currently in the store or signing the forms with them.
straw purchases are illegal because the background checks. Other legal loopholes that a gun purchaser needs to jump through don't apply to someone not in the store buying the weapon themselves.
If you were to buy a firearm for someone else, you're basically trying to let them skip the legal process and get a weapon without having to pass several checks.
It's pretty cut and dry. You're violating the law if you purchase a gun with the intent of bringing it to someone else. Of course, there's no law against you letting someone handle your weapon at the firing range or in other protected or necessary circumstances." [quotes off]
I personally don't believe that weapon wasn't in Illinois and transported across the state line based on the testimony of the individuals breaking the strawman purchase law in the first place ... it doesn't pass the sniff test ... yet the court accepted it along with a lot of other nonsense
'but to understand what happened in the trial'
I think what happened was pretty clear ... that was a show trial with an 'activist' judge presiding and putting more than his thumb on the scales of justice; as others have stated, a travesty of justice
the inevitable civil suits should be quite revealing
anyway, having invested more time than I cared to yesterday dragging the issue I'm bowing out and 'going dark' on it ... those who approve of the results aren't going to care what any critics have to say and as I saw yesterday, assign political motivations to them
I do hold a perspective on such matters but put those aside as much as possible analyzing them, since to me the court process is sacrosanct as part of freedom and human rights no matter the source of government authority ... including country / nation
with regards,
Edits: 11/22/21
He was legally allowed to have the gun. No laws broken. He didn't own it. It was kept at a friends house and when he was old enough to legally own it they agreed to transfer ownership. That's why the gun charge was dropped.
Gun laws in Wisconsin are mainly in relation to hunting and people under 18 are allowed to possess guns but not buy or legally own them.
A confrontation, no question.
I get the gun law. We have similar here, but the streets are far different from the hunting woods. Sure, a kid should be allowed to take a hunting rifle or shotgun to the woods, especially with adult supervision. I did it regularly with my grandfather, but we didn't take our hunting guns to town.
...or anything similar. I own a bunch of guns, and I hunt, but there is only one thing you hunt with an assault-rifle, and it's not deer, waterfowl, or small-game.
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
He left his group to put out a fire. The cops wouldn't let him back to his group so he ended up stuck with the rioters when a lunatic chased and attacked him.
He wouldn't have been there if rioters hadn't been committing arson and massive property destruction. This never would've happened if law enforcement had been allowed to do its job. This happened because the adults failed to fulfill their responsibilities.
You got one thing right. The adult responsible for his care should have never let him go.
His mom didn't know where he was, somebody made that up. He spent lots of time in Kenosha, his father and several other friends and relatives live there. He also worked there.
Did you say something about a hunting intent in the gun law and didn't I say something about guns in the woods vs. in town? So, are you saying his father should've known rather than his mother?
He didn't break any laws and parents don't know exactly where 17 year olds are every minute.
He wasn't hunting.
you're fixating on a peripheral detail because the facts aren't what you want them to be.
No. I'm looking forward. You mentioned the exception in the law that would allow teens to hunt. He didn't violate that law even though he wasn't hunting. Maybe the relevant lawmakers need to revisit the law to make it consistent with their intent.
People need to not riot. If they do, the police need to arrest them. Psychotic child rapists need to be in jail. Without any of these three things there'd have been no shooting. The guys with guns were there because the authorities neglected their duties. They weren't the problem. It was a preview of how great it'd be if the police were abolished.
I don't think it's safe to allow 17yr olds toting guns in crowds, in the streets, etc.
I realize you've dehumanized the first victim. Nothing left to do but kill'em once you've dehumanized'em. That's what Chauvin did that started all the riots in the first place.
It's also not appropriate for 17yr olds to arm themselves and engage in such a situation regardless as to whether officials did their jobs. Adults responsible for his care should've kept him away. That's my perspective as a parent/grandparent.
It's not safe and it shouldn't happen. It was the unfortunate result of a bunch of other things that shouldn't have happened. Once those other things have been allowed to happen this sort of thing becomes necessary.
No. It's not necessary for a kid. The kid at issue has already said he wished he hadn't gone to Kenosha which tells me he's learned something from all this. Hard lesson and lucky to be alive.
and at 17? That's not right either. I don't own a gun and I'm not familiar with laws in different states - is it federalized? If it is then toughen it up like, to age 21 after training and a diploma that's certified as satisfactory.
State law that allows minors of certain age to possess a long gun. The idea or theory behind it is to allow young people to hunt. Nothing wrong with that, imo. But, if that was the intent behind WI law, lawmakers obviously left a loophole.
After taking two lives I'll bet he won't be the same person ever again or maybe not...
He's going to make millions.
If I was the parent of one of the two people killed - I can guarantee you that he would not make millions - he would not make it to age 19.
If that were my kid I'd be relieved that he'd never rape any more children. He needs to be underground.
I've read that he was abused horribly as a child and went on to do it himself. He wanted to die, maybe because he realized how far gone he was, and committed suicide by attacking someone with a gun.
Be mad at the rioters and politicians who let it happen in the first place.
"Hours before the fatal encounter, Rosenbaum had been released from a local hospital in the wake of a suicide attempt, the Washington Post reported last fall.
He had pending charges in Wisconsin for alleged domestic abuse and jumping bail at the time of his death.
In December 2002, a court in Pima County, Arizona, sentenced him to a decade in prison on child molestation charges. He spent just over 14 years in prison and committed dozens of disciplinary infractions, state records show."
The people he shot are not at issue
"Rittenhouse's victims do not appear to have had any record, and even if they did, he couldn't have known that at the time. You cannot insist a shoot was justified AFTER the fact because "that person was a criminal." Criminals have rights too, whether you like it or not, and it is enshrined in the very documents that built our country. If you don't like the constitution and bill of rights, I don't know what to tell you."
From a military legal worker:
I'm seeing a lot of ignorance and misinformation flying around about what happened in Kenosha, and I'm going to set the record straight from a professional legal position... as well as from a former military position. I'm going to explain some things from a more technical angle derived from my many years as a paralegal and from my experience working in federal criminal justice and prosecution.
Legally, if you are in the process of a commission of a crime, it negates your ability to claim self-defence if you kill someone. As in, it can't even be entered as your official defense in court. It is similar to getting rear-ended at a red light through zero fault of your own, but you were driving without a license or insurance. It automatically makes you at fault because you weren't even legally allowed to be driving.
That 17 year old in Kenosha had committed two crimes and was not even legally allowed to open carry the rifle he used to shoot three people. This means that he legally cannot claim self defense.
Another key discussion is the Castle Doctrine. Some of you may be vaguely familiar with it, as it is what allows you to use deadly force when someone comes into your house unlawfully, etc. But there are some finer points most people don't realize that you generally have to do some formal legal studies to know.
First, as soon as someone sets foot inside the threshold of your home uninvited that you believe intends to commit a crime, you can legally use deadly force and it is immediately considered self defense, even if they haven't made any violent threats or actions towards harming you.
This is because in every instance outside your home, you are required to retreat and extricate yourself from a dangerous situation if possible. It is a legal mandate, not a suggestion. Your home is considered the final retreat point, and legally you should be safe in your "Castle." There is nowhere else to retreat to, etc. This is why you are able to immediately use deadly force.
However, it is NOT to protect your property, it is for protecting your LIFE. And once the burglar, for instance, has left your home... the threat to your life is considered neutralized, and deadly force is no longer authorized. So if a burglar runs out the door and down the street with your TV, you are no longer allowed to shoot after them because they are not threatening your life. You call the police, you file a claim with your insurance, and you get a new TV. If you shoot a burglar in the back down the street, you can and should be charged with murder.
While you are out in PUBLIC, this means a lot of things obviously. It means that there is far more scrutiny and boxes that must be checked in order to claim self defense. You must be in IMMINENT danger of losing life and limb. Getting into an argument and feeling scared of being punched by an unarmed person? Not likely to be a situation where deadly force is authorized. You MUST retreat.
If someone shoots at you or pulls a knife on you in the street, that is deadly force and can be met with deadly force. But if the person is unarmed, you cannot shoot them because you're afraid of a little scuffle. That is why Rittenhouse illegally shot the first protester, and it is one of the many reasons it cannot be considered self defense.
The man threw a plastic bag with trash in it at him AND MISSED, and Rittenhouse shot him. He chased his victim and instigated a fight by brandishing and flagging people with his rifle, because he is an untrained idiot with a gun. The protester was not a threat, and even if he was, all he had to do was retreat back to the police line. He rushed at protesters with a gun drawn to pick a fight, and people are acting as if he were just there to keep the peace.
He fired INTO A CROWD, and it's a miracle he didn't hit more people. More people that hadn't thrown a plastic bag. More people that were just trying to protest police brutality, which is a real issue in this country."
The guy went there looking to kill some protesters. Pretty obvious and trying to victim blame is akin to saying a prostitute can't be raped because she has sex for a living. The fact that some guy has criminal charges against him isn't an excuse that he can be murdered - George Floyd had a Criminal record too so in your world I guess the cop was right to suffocate him to death.
I'm not talking lawyereze. It's just easier to understand what was going on if you know the context. Rosenbaum was a monster who wanted to die. When you know that it's less difficult to understand why he attacked a guy with an AR who was running away. Not something a sane person would do. The other shootings were a mob attacking even though they didn't know why. It's the same as if someone shouted "he raped a white woman" and the mob lynched him. Later you find out he just disagreed with someone about politics.
And after the mid-terms are over, he'll be nobody again.
Congresscritter Matt Gaetz (R-FL) said that after a verdict of innocent that he would consider offering Rittenhouse a job as an intern in his office. Other DC politicians have floated the same idea. I don't think that idea would work out too well considering the notoriety of Rittenhouse.
Edits: 11/19/21
He's gonna be on Tucker Carlson next week, I hope he got some decent advice on how much he should get for that.
Lets hope Tucker has the decency to not imagine any of this is a cause to celebrate or in any way encourage more of the same.
As he's already scheduled for an interview with FOX News main man...and of course this is just the beginning. I wonder if he's going to get afflicted by what the veterans called the Vietnam syndrome malady as he gets older. Or maybe not...
Edits: 11/19/21
"Nobody" again, with a big prospect of getting rich like the "other" kid. I agree with you on this. 10 years with parole after 2 would probably sit OK more or less with many on both sides since people's memory is short. It's overzealous prosecution fault and the desire to break the other side of the spectrum. Good luck with that in so called democracy.
A working class killer is something to be
or is it volunteer with tax benefits?
when he gets done suing all of the "news" organizations that lied about him he won't need money.
nt
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
Justice can be irritating to those who disagree with the evidence and the verdict.
Unfortunately, those who disagree with the evidence and the verdict often decide to resort to violence toward people and property which are not involved. (Witness the examples of Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, Ferguson, Baltimore, Kenosha, etc., etc.)
People who have/had NOTHING to do with this incident will suffer the wrath and hateful violence of those who can't control their temper, and want a free big screen TV.
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
not stirring the shit (yet) in order to anger dumb people into sending him money because he owes millions in unpaid loans on failing hotels?
Maybe you saw this?
Man, thanks. I just ordered three.
Oh, to relive the unforgettable moments around the table on Christmas Day....
nt
"Trying is the first step towards failure."
Homer Simpson
to see the panic of octogenarians facing the anger of public face to face. Maybe the first time in their privileged lives of a "public servants".
Democracy in purest of forms and they didn't even put the place on fire .:)
Watching America's inbreds get used, manipulated and then dumped, just for a fund-raising scheme called "Stop the Steal?"
You have an unusual sense of humor.
Massive anti Trump media campaign and Covid related election changes resulted in a manipulated Biden win. It was a fraudulent anti-democratic election by all means and the most amusing fact is that only imbreds got it correctly which resulted in 1/6/21 spectacle. So called American democracy somewhat works only on a local level. Nationally it's a fraudulent scam and a money ball. At the end everybody (except the imbreds in Trump's country nobody cares for ) is happy with the outcome but you just destroy the country's fabric and its credibility with those partisan tactics. Now tell me how much Team's A policies are different from the team they replaced ...
nt
I'm absolutely OK with the feeling that you saved democracy in last elections which is constantly trumpeted around in the press. If it feels good it is good .
nt
I need to clarify that I don't believe in any election conspiracy and mail ballot counting fraud and do not support any post election recounts and Trumps' whining. In my opinion if the situation was so grave due to pandemic than election should be postponed. It was in Poland. Mail in Ballots for masses are just not a democratic way of voting. First of all it's not anonymous and there is no control over who is really voting. The deplorables were supposedly risking their lives for democracy at the voting stations only to see the flood of mail in ballots filled-in by "god knows whom" to reverse the results. My "Obama girl" GF decided for whom her mama and mama's friends were voting to make sure it wasn't an orange man. It's just like going to a confession surrounded by your family...
Edits: 11/20/21
Hardly a new thing. See link.
Yes, I'm aware how long it has been around but it always was a marginal percentage of voting population and times were different. You know, I'm pretty OK with any US administration which doesn't kill too many people abroad and doesn't doesn't hate too many people in the country. The rest is just a result of hard won compromise. Any governments failure is the failure of its people so I wish the current regime a success. Four years is eternity in my age although it will pass in no time unfortunately.
Edits: 11/21/21 11/21/21
nt
Do tell us the difference between the A Team and the B Team. The last time I ventured into the details of this subject it was defenestrated.
That's me on the far left.
"Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. "S'chn T'gai Spock --- "Or the one"
James T. Kirk
Well, I think there are a lot of angrier people in general and forums like this one don't help.
Take this forum. In real life when you meet someone you are at odds with you walk away and try never to see them again. Ie; you choose your friends. On a forum like this one you are having discussions with people you do not know - you have no idea what they are capable of doing as a result. You may be talking to a serial killer for all you know. Sure we can say we'll not read a post from folks we would not be caught dead spending 1 minute with in real life but a forum post is sorta like having to look at roadkill. You don't want to look but you do.
I have had several death threats over the years on forums over something as mundane as "audio equipment" - lol - so what could happen with more hot button topics like politics?
People feel protected because they choose a fake screen name on a forum but on this forum where people have money - it's really not hard to have your home address found.
Like I say - we don't know the people on audio forums and what can trigger them. RGA is a teacher in Hong Kong who writes some stereo reviews - that is about the extent of what people know about me. TWB has a bad heart and swims in Northern California - Inmate lives in Dallas, Texas married and has a Nissan Altima that is 20+ years old - he used to sell stereo equipment - E-Stat has three cars - a Porsche an S2000, and Honda Pilot (sold his Ridgeline - Kentucky - wife works at a University - shown pictures of his wife and himself.
People give too much information about themselves such that hiding behind fake screen names won't really shield them from being found. A Private Detective with this information could probably find their home address in a 1/2 hour.
Like I say - people take for granted that they're talking to people just like them - like a new friend they might make at the grocery store. In real life, you choose your friends - but on the forum, you never really know the people you are talking to or what they're capable of doing.
Like if I got cancer - maybe I use my bank account to take out some forumers I don't like - you know people can snap.
The internet has been around for decades, people have been fighting like crazy the whole time, and how often does it turn into anything serious? 15-20 years ago people weren't used to the rough talk and took it too seriously. These days I think it's much less likely that anything will go beyond the screen. If I'm terminal I might see it as an opportunity to do something that needs to be done that folks in better situations wouldn't risk. It won't be shooting somebody who made me mad on a message board.
Yes but you don't know - We are highly unlikely to do something like this but as I said - we don't know other people. And there are plenty of posters who don't post on forums anymore. How do you know they weren't disappeared. It's not like someone would post that "JoeShmoe was murdered in his sleep and won't be posting on AA anymore." There was a poster here called Soundmind - posted all the time - did he die? Did he simply leave - who knows?There are definitely posters here that if I met them face to face I would say what I say here to their face. So if I call someone an f-ing moron on the forum I will call them the same to their face. If I am in America I might walk around them first to make sure they're not packing as some people are only brave behind computer screens and with a gun.
I have no time for racist dipshits - and I know I could not live in the USA because I'd probably be a Dexter Morgan.
This is the most recent one - The white guy gets no jail for raping 4 women. Again - if I am the father of one of these girls that little punk is coming home to 6 guys who will tie him down and do what that Girl in "I spit on your grave" did. Maybe the cops eventually pin it on me - then again since most of these cops are dumbass racists - probably not - but either way that little punk isn't getting away with it. One reason I don't want kids is that I know if this sort of thing happened I would have no problem giving my life for an act of revenge. Indeed, I remember the scene in Kindergarten Cop when Arnold belts a father who is abusing his kid - the part of the movie that drew "cheers" so the idea of revenge isn't an adverse view.I am on the side of the mob that beheaded Marie Antoinette. ANARCHY baby.
George Carlin You got your ticket to the crazy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkTeZLiNCoM
Edits: 11/19/21 11/19/21 11/19/21 11/20/21
I was posting as a Limono in my former AA life. Being a "typical Eastern European" guy (by my current GF's sister description of a self depreciating and pessimist Slav on a verge of suicide by either drinking himself to death or hanging ) I just couldn't get on with a common American hypocrisy and often posted some offensive stuff for which I was called on and sometimes rightfully so and had to make a public amends. No, nobody threatened me but some of the audio dealers contacted me on my priv and said I was a schmuck for saying this and that and they were actually right. To prevent myself from being a troll I changed account to Wojciech which actually is my real name and easy to figure out who's behind it. It worked for a while but the American hypocrisy exceeded Russians by far from what I remember and I couldn't help myself. Truth to be told I like everybody here even if I think some have a dumb ideas or convictions. The comfort is that we are all "NOBODIES" and can afford to be dumb and sincere in our dumbness. That's why I never cared if somebody called me an idiot or dumbass. Nobody's perfect and who knows, maybe I'm really the one. All the best Richard. Your pen is good and your prose flows. A constant reason of my jealousy and the reason I'd rather read a fake media and correct for the obvious bias than endure Fox news. It's like with girls, the truth will get you a lonely night with a porn channel but use your fantasy and paint the right picture and you're likely to get lucky.
'you know people can snap'
whoa! ... uh, sorry?
does that help?
.
No, I mean as I wrote.
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
BINGO! George who? His dealer is still probably pissed that he owed him money.
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
One of many errors by the prosecution. It didn't help that the judge was partial to the defense. But there was no way any jury was going to convict him on the 1st degree homicide charges. They should have gone with involuntary manslaughter. Anything higher than that was likely to fail because a reasonable juror could see an element of self-defense in his actions.
They could have had him behind bars for a reasonable sentence, reasonable for a 17 year old kid acting part in self-defense. Then he'd be out of the headlines and learning something. Instead, he's the right's new action hero, and would-be vigilantes just got a big green light to arm up for the next wave of protests.
I was dumfounded when saw the list of 1st degree charges (unaware until after the acquittal), such incredible incompetence.
Hyuk-hyuk !
"Kid Homicide." And a new verdict: Sorta guilty, but maybe self defense.
The standard self-defense plea is involuntary manslaughter, 1-6 years. He would have had two counts of it, plus weapons add-ons, meaning his sentence would have been 12-22 years, with early eligibility for parole.
I guess Wisconsin doesn't use the responsive verdict, which allows conviction on lesser charges if the greater charges fail. This keeps perps from walking away scot-free without jeopardy of a another trial.
The same strategy was used in Ohio when a cop, after a high speed chase, jumped on the hood of the suspects' car and emptied his service pistol through the windshield. He was acquitted because there were a lot of bullets flying and it could not be determined with any certainty that his bullets were the ones that actually caused the death of the suspects.
It appears to me that this strategy is commonly used when it's politically necessary that a person be charged, but a conviction isn't really desirable in the eyes of someone in power.
I've been on jury duty many times including a murder trial. Everyone I served with took their duty very seriously. That duty is to apply the law, as it is written, to the facts presented.
Personally I think Rittenhouse is a punk, to put it kindly. I hope other punks aren't encouraged by this outcome.
.
Edits: 08/14/23
No trial required.
nt
There's no evidence for that claim. The cops would certainly be more reluctant to shoot him if he were black.
'more reluctant to shoot him if he were black'
uh, not in the USA especially WI
Go look at the FBI crime statistics and cross-check the national crime victimization survey. The facts don't support the claim.
it shows the kill rate and ratio [as a % of population and incidence] is higher for blacks
I took a good look at it, it doesn't show any prejudice by police. I'm sure if you look at it enough different ways you can find an angle where it looks like that. There are angles where it looks like police are prejudiced against whites. But if you look at the number of arrests by race they line up with the number of arrests that go badly by race. And if you look up the national crime victimization survey the number of arrests by race line up with the number of crimes committed by race. Any differences are far too small to be interesting.
yes ... if you're looking beyond the stats listed you'll have to crunch numbers on your own etc. but the statistics are clear it's no myth
well, I don't know about you but this horse looks about beat dead to me
on a related tangent, what doesn't get much press are the encounters LEO have with extremists
you might not think an organization like the SPLC would track this and advocate for LEO's but they do!
anyway, I appreciate your more considered replies, and as for the salty verbiage, just thought a response in kind was warranted after the garbage comment, you know, maybe break the ice a little
have a good one
Good luck.
what a way to do that
But what do I know?
it reminds me of that song 'Looking For Love In All The Wrong Places'
Yes a travesty of justice.He shouldn't have been there and he wasn't a legal gun owner. The laws should have precluded him from the self defense defense for just one of those reasons.
The prosecutor successfully proved him to be a liar, a scofflaw and ignorant of the laws.
He was as much a criminal as the people he shot.
I see these kinds of things a mockery of gun rights and an abuse of law in general.
Edits: 11/19/21
You sir are spot on.
This is an even more ridiculous verdict than in the O.J. Simpson trial.
At least O.J. wasn't captured on camera doing the deed. People are DEAD.
Don't they get that?
No it's not IMO as unreasonable as the OJ Simpson case.This case is just another example of the low bar our laws establish when it comes to killing people. The folks involved here were all criminals and scofflaws and it's just a mockery of self defense statutes that exist all around America.
All that matters is how reasonable the threat is in the killers mind - it has nothing to do with reality. If Rittenhouse had been killed by the kick or the skateboard or by the guy with the missing bicep there would likely be no charges there either. Killer needs to shut up and let a good lawyer talk for him when the get into these situation.
It's just stupid and promotes lawlessness and a shoot first mentality.
IMO there should have been two manslaughter convictions and one aggravated assault. But the laws have been changed and don't afford it any more.
Edits: 11/19/21
Absolutely!
Human beings with a beating heart have their lives terminated on a daily basis - and yet some are adamant to protect that *right*.
strewth! remember, guns don't kill people, you need bullets too!
although rifles with bayonet will work
or cars, those make great weapons
no one was ever charged for being armed with kindness though
or killing 'softly' with 'his' song
or ... wait, you were making an anti medical procedure post weren't you
huh ... thought you'd have moved past such notions considering the medical science and court precedents involved
oh well
thought you'd have moved past such notions considering the medical science and court precedents involved
Moved pass the recognition of the sanctity of a human life? No, I haven't.
Medical science has provided very straight forward criteria .
Or, from another medical perspective .
Hint: those are hyperlinks so you *should* be able to figure out their source this time. ;)
I've haven't missed one yet Jörg
; )
.
...I kinda saw this coming. Cop did wrong, mob did wrong, stupid kid did wrong. His mother should be on trial, because she knew all-along.
Let the riots begin--that'll "fix" it. I, as a responsible gun-owner, am still appalled that the judge dropped the gun charges.
No appeals on an acquittal. Now the "aftermath"...
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
Even a clown for a judge, much like the OJ trial.
But still...
As a white guy with semi-automatic long barreled firearms in a state with few restrictions...
Yes, but even more ridiculous. O.J. wasn't caught on camera doing the deed.
That was the interpretation...technical , but thats how it was viewed.
Right, another travesty brought about by intensive lobbying. Barrel length doesn't matter a damn. Caliber, bullet, and operation matter much, much more.
will it be televised ?
Edits: 11/19/21
I'm guessing around sundown, and the riots will likely be televised on all major outlets. Stay tuned!
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
No justice, no peace. It's a lot like the old lynch mob with a modern twist.
Where did it come from?--Page 1 of the "Extortionist's Handbook"? You want justice/peace, you don't open with threats or implications of violence. I know there will be riots and senseless destruction of property. There are already 500+ National Guard troops stationed around the city. I just hope they do their duty--to protect the innocent citizens of their city.
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
Edits: 11/19/21
Where did it come from?--Page 1 of the "Extortionist's Handbook"? You want justice/peace, you don't open with threats or implications of violence.What else can they begin the negotiation with?
They've been waiting 150 years and asking nicely doesn't work.Edit: And yes, I'm being facetious. I'm not advocating for any property damage. But I totally understand a desire to deal out some disruption after spending your life in such an adversarial justice system.
Edits: 11/19/21
...that racism is still pervasive in many areas of this country, and in all aspects of society, BUT--why can't the protesters rally behind a "better" role-model? I'm not really motivated to rally/riot on behalf of a convicted felon, high on drugs, committing a crime, and/or with outstanding arrest warrants and resisting arrest. Sorry--I don't care what color or sex or religion you are, at that point.
And I do blame the MSM for a lot of this "social unrest". When I watched the earliest coverage following the Rittenhouse verdict, the "reporters" were basically "baiting" their interviewees to start some shit. "If it bleeds, it leads..."--that's not a falsehood. The producers back in the control room were probably furious--"what?--no violence yet?--push harder!"--and I'm not kidding--cynical, YES--but not joking.
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
maybe 150 years ago or as recent as 50 years ago it was an adversarial system but times had changed and the community didn't. They still adhere to the old ways and follow their corrupt leaders because it's the easiest way to blame the system for their own ineptitudes. Open any newspaper on the crime page and it's all clear.
Edits: 11/19/21
Well said brother.
.
Freak out...Far out...In out....
And windy . Guessing that kind of weather will keep most people home.
Sounds like a nice clear night for looting nearby businesses and burning cars to me. ;)
...and calmness prevails. Disappointed it didn't turn out the way you had hoped?
...And took it as gleeful anticipation of the presumed forthcoming civil insurrection further exacerbated by widespread arson resulting from the mob's need for heat.
Perhaps folks are realizing the practice is mindless and indefensible.
Perhaps folks are realizing the practice results in really bad optics, provides opposing factions a supporting narrative for their world views and damages and subverts the underlying cause in the public opinion.
then you'd better hurry or you'll miss the bus!
Our guy loses, we invade The Capital and hand the Speaker.
And pretty much all of last year in Portland, Minneapolis, ...But we don't see Pelosi, Schumer & Co. going after those thugs. Huh.
Questions for all: Does anyone have a property damage estimate for the rioting over felon George Floyd's death? And, how many people have been injured or killed in those riots? Didn't Minneapolis name a street or an intersection in his "honor"?
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
Edits: 11/21/21
Hoping law enforcement will step up and quell the violence! Would be nice to see rioters get arrested and tried for their offenses!
Philippians 2:9-11
and have some "repellent" nearby. :)
View YouTube Video
no matter who or what 'side'! right?
well, the Nat'l Guard is deployed which tends to quell those acting out
until tonight of course
what a mess!
It just takes time and the news too old and boring to elicit "angry" or "scared" re$ponses that keep grampy glued to the tv.
Just google.
...and they should have their asses and faces paraded on TV non-stop to destroy their future lives, as well.
Tired of "media justice".
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
nt
EDIT: Sorry Dave, that was kind of a cheap shot. I take it back.
Edits: 11/19/21
I think he's just spoofing
he only asked for the media punishment that he's tired of
<> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ <>
But that's pretty damn insignificant compared to somebody dying without cause.
I just don't understand how somebody could be blasé about serious shit and then fly off the handle over some busted windows and petty theft. It's like picking on masks when 500M people have been killed by COVID, which is something I think Dave and I probably agree on.
and I agree with you sir!
the darker Dave orbits a bit to the right of my viewpoints though and like many others that do [who I also have regard for, some are family] is particularly galled by property crimes ... and there's reasons for that ...
which I won't go into at this time
folks are a bit too 'energized' or upset by events at this juncture
this whole mess hasn't played out yet and actually might never fully do so
it's best to revisit the subject later IMO
with regards,
No need to arrest rioters.
Just let the vigilante's kill them.
.
Freak out...Far out...In out....
n/t
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
He was found not guilty by 12 people unanimously who sat in the room and heard everything presented by both sides. I personally think he shouldn't have been there in the first place, but other than that, I don't have an opinion. Some people can watch a 30 second video clip, and know all they need to know.
Don't rush anyone with a loaded gun!
Common sense for most.
scenario training should be taught.
You encounter someone carrying a loaded rifle. What is the best response?
A. Share your concern with a law enforcement officer so they can determine whether or not any laws are being violated.
B. Provide added distance between you and that individual.
C. Rush them at close distance.
with the acquittal, in just 17 years he can run for President on the Republican ticket.
And win.
I'm not so sure it was "unanimously." If they were all in agreement the verdict should have come sooner.
How many counts? How much INTERNAL discussion by the Jurors? How many questions did they ask of the judge?
I'd rather THIS decision in this manner than OJs jury taking 4 hours?...they hardly had TIME to send out for coffee.....
And yes, by definition it WAS a unanimously reached decsion on ALL COUNTS......Or it would not have gotten back to the judge except.....MAYBE...... A decision on a few counts and hopelssly Hung on the remainder, which DIDN'T happen....
Too much is never enough
AFAIK, only Florida allows juries to convict or acquit based on a majority vote.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
ny
"Trying is the first step towards failure."
Homer Simpson
I know,. Everywhere except Oregon now. What I am saying is that if they were all in such agreement about the verdict, it wouldn't have taken this long.
I was beginning to think there would be a deadlock.
I saw the judge ask them if they were unanimous. The answer was yes. He went even further and asked if any of them disagreed with any of the verdicts, crickets.
You can't really disagree with the verdict if you voted for it. I personally think that judge was kind of stupid.
'I personally think that judge was kind of stupid'
I think he was kind of 'activist' and it showed
but not even 'kind of'
Yeah, I was trying to be generous. I don't know why.
Maybe the jury took their time to get it right?
Philippians 2:9-11
'I personally think' + 'I don't have an opinion'
*ahem* but you just expressed your opinion
you're lacking some clarity on the concept of neutrality SR
regards,
You understood what I said. He shouldn't have been there. Other than that...-
"You understood what I said. He shouldn't have been there. Other than that..."
Where? in court? lol ...
I did understand, you posted an opinion ... semantics aside ...
mine is that despite being an out of state minor breaking local curfew laws, if he was unarmed, and went there to protest or counter protest or conduct investigative reporting as a cub reporter ala Jimmy Olson that is well within the realm of acceptability
especially the Jimmy Olson part ... Superman wouldn't have let things get nearly so out of control when he showed up for the inevitable rescue
but baskets of wishes are filled with ifshes ... *groan*
pardon my lame alliteration
with regards,
It's not like the jury didn't deliberate for a few days either.
We all need to take a deep breath, relax, and view this outside the context of stupid useless culture wars.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
> > > It's not like the jury didn't deliberate for a few days either.
I was wondering if the jury feared that riots would be inevitable if they came back too quickly, so they played cards for 3 more days.
-Rod
Highly unlikely that the jury stayed away from their families for an extra couple of days just out of fear that protests would break out.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
Edits: 11/19/21
'view this outside the context of stupid useless culture wars'
but that's what it is ... the stupid part anyway
but now the court says it's OK to lock and load
so it's WAY out of that context and this will just escalate!
and there's a certain contingent that have been literally praying for it
I say 'goddammit' on top of a pile of goddamits
No legal precedent was set by this trial. A jury listened to both legal teams, viewed the evidence presented, listened to testimony (BTW, one of the prosecution's witnesses was the most damning to the prosecution's own case) and deliberated for several days.
Found the defendant not guilty.
There's nothing in the verdict that gives people a constitutional right to open fire at will on people they don't like.
At any rate, people already open fire at the drop of a hat, for stupid stuff too. Like, is Alabama's football team better than Texas A&M's? They didn't need permission from a jury in Wisconsin.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
Edits: 11/19/21 11/19/21
The econ is roaring, the crushing uncertainty of Covid has mostly passed and you know who hasn't stirred the shit. Yet.
If Kenosha boy were black, I doubt there would've been a trial. He'dve been shot 72 times by the cops that night ... and probably while his hands were raised.
I guess some people didn't learn anything from the Travon thing. Don't pick a fight with a guy with a gun.
Unless you are Trevor Dooley.
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
nt
. . . the people whom Rittenhouse killed in self defense were black. And I can kind of understand this mistaken notion, given the way our billionaire corporate media has been reporting things.
Most of the posters here aren't nearly that... ignorant OR mis-informed.
Not even close.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
Please see my reply to Dave below.
I wonder if the keyboard warriors who've made him out to be a hero realize that he killed and maimed white folks.
Obviously, you haven't been paying attention.
There's plenty of evidence if you would care to get out more and pay a bit of attention yourself. . .
Among the items breathlessly and unquestioningly reported by our wonderful billionaire MSM sources are the following statements, from a couple of our (ahem!) elected representatives:
Plenty more where these came from. As Rep. More might ask, "See the problem?".
You quoted some random wing-nut twitter user. I'm not the least bit surprised that some wing-nuts don't know the particulars of the case. They seem to be pretty divorced from reality right now.
Ayanna Pressley and Gwen Moore know exactly what went down and are picking on key points. If you don't follow, it's because you're a consumer of positive reinforcement click bait and the issues are over your head.
"Ayanna Pressley and Gwen Moore know exactly what went down and are picking on key points."Time for a reality check:
The Kenosha unrest shooting by Rittenhouse took place August 25, 2020 between 11:49 - 11:59 p.m. CDT.
And you state that Ayanna Pressley knew "exactly what went down" when she made her tweet at 5:33 pm August 26, 2020, less than 24 hours after the shooting.
"exactly what went down" less than 24 hours after the shooting. Hmmm.
Talk about being "pretty divorced from reality".
Edits: 11/22/21
when will the white on white gun violence stop in Kenosha!
[in this case one thing is not like the other & 'new']
nt
n
...but is arson, looting, and violence the answer? We'll see tonight--if people can live DOWN to expectations.
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
I guess it's open season now ... a mistrial if ever there was one
at least the little magat got a trial ... sort of
absolutely disgusting
k
Stupid cop, stupid mob, stupid kid with a gun = where we are now.
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
Stupid cop, stupid mob, stupid kid with a gun, incompetent prosecutor, questionably neutral judge = where we are now.
I'll buy that for a dollar. Judge was clearly biased. Prosecutor was "over-reaching". I'll post it again and forever--he should have gone down on gun charges, and his mother as an accessory after the fact. Murder--NO, but this wasn't just a case of "wrong place at the wrong time".
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
The judge determined the outcome before the trial started.
.
Freak out...Far out...In out....
Not sure the judge (pre)determined the outcome before the trial started but he certainly influenced the outcome in a direction he believed it should go. I somewhat naively trust the jury saw thru this and made their decisions based primarily on the evidence presented.
...the judge was biased, but the prosecutor was "reaching"--way too far. I still want his mother facing charges. Kinda glad he walked, but this whole thing was a train-wreck.
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
True.
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