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In Reply to: RE: For all you anti-vax debunkers out there posted by tweaker456 on September 23, 2021 at 21:06:08
"74% of Recent Massachusetts COVID-19 Cases Were in Fully 'Vaccinated' People".
I think at least that one is true.
Follow Ups:
Colpo is your idea of a reliable source? Even if it was true - have my doubts - the important stats are hospitalizations/deaths.
Edits: 09/24/21
Rick, Colpo is a pretty smart guy and very aggressive who provides much more content to make his points than others so he presents more of a challenge to counter his distortions IMO. I do think he may have made a good case that the initial testing conclusions were a bit weak but I could be incorrect? The real world outcomes seem pretty fantastic unless there is some giant conspiracy to lie about them which I don't believe is the case.
Denied facts are still facts.
giant conspiracy?
oh, I see ... Gulliver's Travels?
that's a pretty swift reference!
so, how's the horse paste thing going?
any side effects so far?
you never answer ... it's as if you're ...
I don't remember. But I still think that one is true. My sources are people I trust not to lie on purpose. Doesn't mean they are right. Also this might be true because they have one of the highest rates of vaccination. If they were 100% vaccinated then 100% of cases would be in the vaccinated. Truth is not easy to acquire. Do you have a source for the stat or you just want to dilute the idea?
The important thing about this stat is it points to the vaccine not stopping transmission.
Of course hosp. and death are important stats but this is a different topic.
Had never heard of Colpo before so have no opinion on their reliability.
Seems like a pointless stat to me even if it was true, which I don't believe is the case (see link). You get vaccinated to prevent serious illness.
m
Seems almost pointless to me too.
So if the "vaccine" doesn't prevent infection/transmission then why do we care if people are not vaccinated? Let them die, no?
That's what I been saying since before the poo hit the fan.
It aint about the dying, people do that every day.
It's about the goddamn calamity that's created within our healthcare system that wastes resources.
are so bad that people with non-covid problems can't get the treatment they need. Also, the cost of giving these bozos treatment in hospitals needlessly drives up the already ludicrously expensive cost of health care/insurance for everybody else. Otherwise, I see your point :-)
It could get a lot worse with cold/flu season coming. People working at hospitals say tons of people are coming in this year, unlike last year.
What the hell are you talking about nil? The vaccines are reported to be less effective against delta breakthrough infections but still more effective than no vaccine along with drastic reduction in hospitalizations and death. Sorry the world you are living in isn't perfect. WTF?
Denied facts are still facts.
The vaccine doesn't stop infection/transmission according to the general consensus. It only reduces severity of illness.
Since nobody seems to be challenging that aspect I'd give it a high probability of being true.
Actually haven't seen any data on that myself.
'haven't seen any data on that myself'
we'll just add this to the ever growing pile of data you haven't seen
and things that you can't be bothered to look up
or understand when you do
be well,
So you're telling me there is still a chance!
Continue to make up your own reality if you wish nil. I myself do not equate data as reported here with consensus. Your contention that the vaccines do not prevent infection is utter nonsense based on the CDC report. I does not prevent 100% of infections and are apparently less effective at preventing infection from Delta than Alpha. Once again, continue with your robotic and inaccurate statements all you want. All I can do is present the evidence that I can find by the powers that be.
Denied facts are still facts.
"I myself do not equate data as reported here with consensus"
I'm with you on that.
"Your contention that the vaccines do not prevent infection is utter nonsense based on the CDC report."
I didn't see anything in your link about that. More help please. There is a boatload of info on that site.
"Once again, continue with your robotic and inaccurate statements all you want."
Now that is just an opinion.
nt
Denied facts are still facts.
Looks like KKF did a good job but that source data is suspect.
Can you help me here, from the article:
"The CDC reports that as of July 19, of 5,601 hospitalized breakthrough cases, 27% were asymptomatic or not related to COVID-19"
How can a breakthrough case not be related to covid?
Still these are the numbers that are floating around."Roughly 97% of new hospitalizations and 99.5% of deaths in the U.S. are among unvaccinated individuals, U.S. health officials repeated this week." July 2021 CNBC
I didn't read all of the Colpo stuff but I didn't see that he talked about the huge protection from hospitalization and death that the vaccines are reported to effect. A huge amount of smart, well meaning people believe that this level of protection is real. Colpo also states that the mRNA preparations are not vaccines which sure seems false by this definition. "A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular infectious disease" I believe none of the Massachusetts people died.
Denied facts are still facts.
"Still these are the numbers that are floating around."Roughly 97% of new hospitalizations and 99.5% of deaths in the U.S. are among unvaccinated individuals, U.S. health officials repeated this week." July 2021 CNBC"
Yes that is damn near a perfect 100%. I haven't seen a good source for that data. I have seen many nurses and doctors describing what they see at work and things are not lining up at all. Someone is lying, no doubt.
"Colpo also states that the mRNA preparations are not vaccines"
Technically that is correct. It is Gene Therapy.
That I can not read anything more stupid than what I just red, anti-vaxxers, Trumpers, conspiracy theorists, and GOP members prove me wrong. (not sure though that those are not synonyms)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane."
Technically it is a vaccine.
Denied facts are still facts.
"Technically it is a vaccine."If that is true it is because they changed the definition in recent weeks.
edit: now I remember seeing a word changed in the definition. The word was Immunity and it was change to ... I think it was Protection. I still think of it as a gene therapy. Because it is.
So technically I am wrong and you are right now. And calling it a vaccine reduces hesitancy.
Edits: 09/24/21 09/24/21
The likelihood that they drastically reduce severe illness and death should also reduce hesitancy IMHO, unless you can debunk that.
Denied facts are still facts.
I can't debunk that but there is no study to prove it either. Seems to be fact by consensus.
Man you sure do love shooting from the hip nil.
Denied facts are still facts.
Not too much.
nt
Yes but am waiting for results on safety before I would consent to the Gene Therapy Vaccine.
You want 100% safety you ain't gonna get it. One estimate a couple of months ago was that the vaccines have saved about 250,000 lives in the us. I believe the stats on the drastic reduction of hospitalization and death. Look again at the numbers from the KFF I posted. Extremely impressive IMO. If those numbers were arrived at by some kind of consensus opinion please point out how that occurred nil. I'd like to know.
Denied facts are still facts.
I think the numbers were reported by hospitals, would need to check into each hospital. There was no opinion or consensus we can see from here.
you two [maybe three?] should get a room ... unless you're already in it
Aristarchus of Samos, 'Franklin' & Tweaker ... sounds crowded!
bah! whatever
I like your moniker. And you're invited too:)
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