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In Reply to: RE: You sound exactly like Trumpettes claiming election fraud. posted by Rick W on September 20, 2021 at 07:33:42
. . . and, like tinear, put words in my mouth. I do NOT say that the corporate MSM are ALWAYS wrong. Where have I ever said that? But indeed, they ARE wrong often enough that they must be "consumed" with a great deal of caution, and I find the sources I listed to be more reliable, even though they're sometimes wrong too.
I've never claimed there was election fraud, although I support any and all efforts (including from Trump supporters) to make sure that our elections are fair and uncorrupted. OTOH, it was you (inspired by the ravings from your beloved MSM) who got hysterical and claimed that the January 6 demonstration constituted an armed insurrection, despite the fact that most of the protesters were UNarmed, including Ashli Babbitt, who was shot dead by the police.
Sure, Rick - just know that it's a cheap tactic to characterize those who disagree with you as supporters of some crazed notion, even when there's not a jot or tittle of evidence. One thing you're right about: inmates can judge our political posts for themselves.
Follow Ups:
Let's see ya provide a link to me saying "armed insurrection". Good luck trying to find something that doesn't exist.
Linked is what I DID say. Furthermore, look at THE DATES OF MY POSTS. Months before Jan. 6th! Then check out your replies. You were smug as usual and WRONG as usual. If you still don't think Trump and Trumpettes both in and out of Congress essentially tried to have a coup I feel sorry for your lack of cognition.
I'm putting this to bed. To be honest, after all the posts of yours I've read and the back & forths we've had, I simply don't care what you think about anything other than music.
"Christopher Wray - the current head of the FBI *appointed by Trump and confirmed by the Republican majority Senate* in 2017 - just got done testifying that they found ZERO EVIDENCE that anyone but Trump supporters was among the insurrectionists that stormed the Capitol." [my bold]
-Rick W, March 6, 2021
OK - I concede you didn't say anything as to whether they were armed. But as for my finding "something that doesn't exist" (i.e., your use of the term, insurrection/insurrectionists), you should get acquainted with your own posts a bit better. ;-)
'inspired by the ravings from your beloved MSM'
that's hyperbolic CFL
'who got hysterical'
more hyperbole, I've never seen Rick W 'hysterical' about anything
you think he's putting words in your mouth but you're guilty of assigning emotions and attitudes to someone in a 'debate' ... there's a term for that
building a strawman argument
there's no points for that, it's designed to sway an audience
which begs the question ... who are you performing for? what audience?
be well,
You've never seen Rick get hysterical? I think that when he uses the term, "insurrectionists" (see my post above), that IS getting on the hysterical side of things. Therefore, no strawman - right? ;-)
"insurrectionists" is entirely accurate
18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection "Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."
they sought to disrupt and end the lawful process of confirming the vote count of the general election which is a major component in the peaceful transfer of power and authority of the federal gov't and will of the people ... the very definition of rebellion
and yes, many were armed ... you don't need guns to be armed
I suppose pitchforks would be easier to ID and relate to but a spear is a spear and a club is a club ... lots of 'bear spray' too, with nary a bear in sight ... there were lots of guns intercepted that day as well
m'kay? good!
. . . but it leaves the term, "insurrection", undefined. I mean, do you think the January 6 actions constituted a rebellion too (per your quote)? To me, that's a loose usage of either term.
You are supposing intent on the part of the demonstrators - sure, there MAY have been intent to disrupt the proceedings on the part of SOME (kind of like when Code Pink gets in the Senate gallery and disrupts things until they're escorted out by the police), but, as I see it, this "major component of the peaceful transfer of power" was never in any danger. In fact, the main problem with the Jan 6 demonstration was that there was an insufficient number of police on hand to control a crowd of that size - even though anyone with half a brain could have anticipated the size of the crowd in advance.
You also say "many were armed". I say not that many were armed, although I agree that SOME demonstrators (well, I call them demonstrators - I think some here would call them storm troopers) were armed. Whatever, this was not the vast majority of the crowd). And there were "many" guns intercepted that day? How many and where? I don't know about this interdiction, so I'm genuinely interested. As for the bear spray, just as with spears and clubs, that's kind of hard to determine exactly, so if you think there was "lots" of bear spray, then more power to you! BTW, wasn't bear spray being recommended in a recent thread on this very forum? Sometimes, I guess it's handy to have bear spray around. ;-)
my comment started by saying it fit the very definition of insurrection
why are you asking if that's what I think when it's the very predicate posted?
'I guess it's handy to have bear spray around'
sure, if there's bears ... and I don't mean the state police
You used the word in a heading - which did NOT contain the definition.
You say, "my comment started by saying it fit the very definition of insurrection". So what is "it"?
Sheesh!
you said:
"do you think the January 6 actions constituted a rebellion too'
I already answered + gave you the text of 18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection ... the very definition under the law! but that's not much of a definition? what else do you need, captioned pictures?
now you're asking "So what is "it"?" ???
if you're somehow lost in the thread it's not my fault
I struggle to understand how you could possibly be supportive of these honest-to-goodness, extremely dangerous criminals. They did a great deal of damage and injury that day in the process of trying to overthrow the legitimate workings of government. You are grossly minimizing what they did.
Maybe you're just being contrary for the heck of it? That's the only explanation that I'd like to think is plausible. I would expect better of you,
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
I know little about the insurrectionists but we rounded up about 600 hundred of them and they are in cells so we are probably safe now. And they are probably not safe.
We don't know much about what actually happened and whodunnit because they won't release the video tapes.
A good question is why are they sitting in cells for months without being sentenced for their heinous crimes?
'because they won't release the video tapes'
the public shouldn't see evidence in criminal cases, that's between counsel
you know, jury tainting and whatnot
of course, the defense loves leaks because of IBID
'I know little about the insurrectionists'
certainly, of course, most comments start with a disclaimer!
'And they are probably not safe'
... safe from what? due process?
that's too damn bad isn't it!
"... safe from what? due process?"
I think due process is what everybody wants.
There are reports they are being abused and senators were denied access to see for themselves. So we don't know and it looks like we aren't going to know anytime soon.
'There are reports they are being abused'
*sniff*
it's like Guantanamo!
'senators were denied access'
you mean denied political theater?
I agree, traitors deserve no platform, just a day in court
good point! you rock!
be well,
If they're getting a bum rap, then of course I DO want to defend them. And I'm not going to rely on mass corporate media to lay out the facts for me. It's this same media which has inflamed people's emotions by their loose, hysterical reporting of what happened - sometimes in order to make cheap political points.
I do not agree that I'm minimizing what they did, but, in any case, I do not want to lump them all together as "dangerous criminals". Need I repeat that one of these "dangerous criminals" (an unarmed one) was shot to death?
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