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"We will consciously undersupply demand level[s]," Harald Wilhelm, Daimler's chief financial officer told the Financial Times in a recent interview, "and at the same time we [will] shift gears towards the higher, the luxury end."
Mary Barra, CEO of GM said pretty much the same thing in an interview a couple of months ago but was more oblique.
The car market is the way it's going to be. Far fewer new cars (and therefore far fewer used cars down the road), selling for far more money.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
Follow Ups:
When NEED and WANT become conflated?
SELL THE SIZZLE......
Too much is never enough
We had a VW Scirocco and gave up on it when it was on Recall K.
The Cruze and Focus were discontinued because they have to sell in large volume to be profitable, and they weren't selling well enough anymore. Ford lots were flooded with left over Focus and it took them a year after production ended to clear the inventory.
There's just not many people like you and your wife looking to buy a new small car for basic transportation. Most people are taking advantage of the cheap financing to buy something nice, not what they need. When the money supply eventually tightens, the luxury end of the car market will be the first to suffer.
The issue is deliberately cutting supply in order to increase demand and therefore profits.
The type of vehicle is irrelevant. Eventually, and not to far in the future, they'll all be priced out of the ordinary buyer's reach.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
The supply curve represents what the auto makers are willing to sell for what money, and the demand curve represents what buyers are willing to pay for. The point where they intersect is what determines the volume and the price.
If the supply curve and the demand curve don't intersect, then you don't have a viable product for the market.
That's why economy cars like the Focus and Cruze are going away. In order to make money on economy car lines, the auto makers need to up-sell buyers into higher trims and keep the sales incentives small. But the higher trims weren't selling, and the cars weren't moving without large incentives.
...I recall an interview with a Porsche executive in the early 90s I think. He stated half jokingly that Porsche's mfg/marketing objective was to produce one less veh than they could actually sell. The difference now is that many more mfgrs recognize this as a valid strategy and can get away with it in just about all market segments...for the time being.
Say, the Chinese automakers, this is going to be the way things are. Cars will increasingly become a luxury item. Fewer and fewer Americans will be able to afford one. In a country intentionally designed to make people need cars to get around. What could possibly go wrong?
Which doesn't matter one bit to corporate shareholders. Wall Street's ideal car company is Tesla, which has sold to date only about 100K cars more than Honda sells CRVs in one year.
Financial markets don't seem to be impressed by millions of sales worldwide. They want eccentric celebrity CEOs and companies that re-invent themselves every other week on Twitter.
And shareholders are the only consumers who truly count.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
Individual ownership will be out of reach for most consumers: you will subscribe to your new POS.
US Chambers of Commerce.
The owners of car dealerships, along with Realtors, have huge political clout WAY disproportionate to their numbers. Both locally and, by way of trade associations, nationally.
Had no idea how this all worked until business ties forced me to become a member of the Utah Chamber of Commerce in Salt Lake City.
The president of said organization? The retired Speaker of the House of Representative of the State of Utah!
Car dealers and Realtors and Hotel owners and political big-wigs deciding how to divvy up the pie, in this case the pie was the Salt Lake Winter Olympics.
They didn't have to show at the meetings as the leaders of The Chamber did all of their work for them.
Subscription is the model they're chasing, though. Each vehicle provides a constant revenue stream no matter how many times it's sold or traded.
It'll be tough to regulate the Chinese out of the US market because they're already here. They're just badged as Buicks.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
Now gone with the wind.
Now owned by the Chinese but still feeld scandinavian. On my second. First was a D5 S60 bought at 100K sold at 195K after 13 years, only killed by standing in lockdown.
Current is a 2018 V60 Diesel brilliant car. This will last until Electric are a sensible price.
Worst car I've EVER owned my entire life!
Let me guess, you bought it used & didn't a proper inspection before you bought it ?
With a at the time "generous" 2 year / 24,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty. Guess when things went wrong? Just after the warranty period, surprise, surprise... AFA used cars go, I would NEVER in a million years buy ANY used car that was not "certified".....
What year ?
NT
...other than the warranty provided--which you can purchase to cover any used vehicle that you choose to buy.
"Certified" gives you a documented checklist of inspections/service and some sort of extended warranty, but any "legitimate" dealer will perform these type of inspections and any necessary service prior to offering ANY used car for sale, and extended warranties are available for purchase, separately.
CPO is primarily just a "value-added" selling point.
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
nt
there really aren't any German cars anymore. Or American cars, Japanese cars, Korean cars, etc. Car makers are global companies with no national allegiances other than those required by law where the corporate HQs are located.
Cars are built all over the world on universal platforms that can be scaled up and down as needed. Machines do nearly all of the critical work, so it doesn't matter where the car was built.
GM, for example, not only builds more cars outside the US but it also sells more cars in the US that are built elsewhere than it sells US-built cars.
And they are ALL cutting production. GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda.
The German CEO quoted in my OP is the only one to admit that they intend to undersell demand and raise prices for the foreseeable future. But they're all going to do it.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
In the case of the German manufacturers that are headquartered in Germany (ie VAG, Daimler and BMW) which means that at least ALL their profits are taxed in Germany.
Including any profits made by production in China for the Chinese market or any made in USA and sold there.
The same goes for any individual with a main residence in Germany.
Meanwhile the vast majority of their cars sold in the European market are made in Europe. But all Mercedes GLEs and GLSs are made in the US but all C class for example cars are made in Germany.
That is despite Germany having some of the highest corporation taxes in the world. Which probably why the German tax revenue was $1.3 trillion while the US tax revenue was only $2.3 trillion despite having 4x the population (2019 numbers) and Germany has to all intents and purposes no national debt.
(They do have a national debt but others owe Germany substantially more than Germany owes to others, $3.1 trillion more)
I had a 5-speed standard transmission Jetta GLI as my first new car out of college. Ran the wheels off of it, even towed with it.
Only problem was a AC valve went bad under warranty, nothing else.
The Pirelli tires wore fast, sucked in snow and were replaced with Michelins.
Haven't tried any of their recent offerings.
My Audi is the third German car I've owned. The first was a 1976 German built Mercury Capri that was killed by an old man turning left in front of me when I was 16. The second was a 2000 MBZ C280 that had 220K miles on it when it was totaled last February by an old woman, you guessed it, turning left in front of me. The MBZ was great, a very solid car. The Audi is all that and quicker, faster, handles far better, and is much more comfortable. It is a dream to drive. And I got an absolute bargain on it last year when I bought it as a CPO with 11,000 miles on it.
So, whatever it is that you prefer, great. I'll stick with the Germans.
Without going into details here's my summary:German = hella fun 'til they require hella costly repairs around the time the warranty expires!
Japanese = bland and boring but lasts forever on regular oil changes.
We've owned many BMW and a couple VW, and many Toyota and Honda in our family including relatives. Some include:
BMW X5, BMW X3, BMW 330i, BMW 335i, BMW 135i, 83 VW GTi, 2003 VW GTi, older Jetta.
Toyota Corolla, a couple Camry's, a couple 4Runners, a Tacoma truck, Tundra truck. Lexus IS250. Honda CR-V 2007, CR-V 2013, Honda Passport.
Throw in a couple old Datsuns including the 240z and 510, but I wouldn't consider any recent Nissans. And my older Chevy Luv pickup made by Isuzu.
Bottom line:
German = Fun
Japanese = Reliable
Edits: 09/15/21
Aside from the 240Z, it looks like you only purchased boring utility vehicles from Japanese auto makers.
The Japanese make some pretty fun sports cars.
Our experience as well. Our Mercedes was great, but always expensive to maintain and repair. It took us far too long to find a great independent that didn't charge a fortune, then Carol totaled the car. Still, not great "fun" but a nice driving car.
Our Acura, nothing but oil changes and tire rotations. We even can get it serviced at the Honda dealer across the street from my wife's office. I think we've taken it to Acura once for a warranty issue, but that's it. It is boring though. Got the job done of hauling around the girls in their monster sized car seats.
The Audi, remains to be seen. At least I've got a great independent mechanic to start with, and 3 more years on the warranty.
I would love to try Audi someday, something like the Q5 or SQ5 or A4/S4. I like their Google Maps display in the cockpit but we're talking newer models with the pricey options ;-(
I got very lucky with my A4. It's pretty loaded (no rear heated seats, much to my daughter's dismay). It's great. I love the Q's, if we didn't already have an SUV I would've gotten one. I understand the SQ5 is on the way out in favor of the e-tron. Better performance or so the sales guy said.
Anecdote, my independent MBZ mechanic bought an S4. Said lots of guys in the shop were switching to Audi. Name of the shop: Mercedes Exclusively.
are quite different in feel and drive from their Japanese brethren.
I'm pretty much a BMW guy as far as German cars go. But... in general German cars are tops for me.
If I were looking for a new car (kinda into the SUV thing right now), and I could swing it; BMW would be it.
VW, yeah, never owned one, don't plan to, so I get his point there.
We desperately wanted the Audi Q5 when it first came out, it was such a solid, great driving vehicle, unfortunately it was just too small. We had 2 babies in VERY LARGE car seats and they just wouldn't fit.
We found a pretty adequate substitute (not driving style mind you) in our Acura RDX. 2013 was the fIrst year of the "new style, non turbo" model and I was skeptical, but it's been trouble free and has nearly 150,000 miles on it. Doesn't drive nearly as well as the Audi, but it fit the car seats. Only other vehicles I could find that would (no mini van for my wife) were the VW Jetta and Passat. Almost pulled the trigger on the Passat, but the dealer turned into a complete a$$ so I walked.
Incidentally we only bought the MBZ because the car I really wanted at the time, the BMW 5, was unobtanium. Only car we could find in stock that was close was the C280. That worked out pretty well for 20 years.
I recently bought a new Kia Forte. Excellent reliability rating and I got it for 20% below msrp without a lot of haggling. It comes with a very good warranty and I bought a warranty upgrade for a modest price that gives me 10 years bumper to bumper.
Internal combustion engine cars are a mature technology. I'm sure there are lots of people who want what I want - air conditioner, heater, radio, and nothing more. Actually, after listening to the radio for a few days I don't think I even want that. I did some of my best thinking in my last car with a broken radio.
My guess is that the only people dumber than the average car buyer are the car company executards. The industry needs an Aldi equivalent. Keep models exactly the same for years, limit the number of choices to just a few basic models. Work out the bugs, minimize cost of ownership. I hate the screen. I'm a garden variety cis-gendered white male, I can back up using the mirrors without hitting anything or getting stressed out. All the peripheral foolishness just annoys me.
Problem with the Forte is that Kia moved it an the Elantra upmarket. CVT only, electric parking brake, infotainment out the ass.
A Hyundai Accent would be perfect but dealers don't have any and with manufacturers cutting production, they're not likely to get any.
My sister has a friend who sells used cars. That's probably where I'll get my next car, if there is a next car in my future.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
A/C ? Pussy !
2 55 a/c.
: )
I've commuted the last two summers without it. It's nice to have.
Why manufacture and sell a LOT of modestly priced gear when you can sell a few much more profitable pieces to the deep pocket crowd?
Nearly all of the 'high value' audio brands try to go 'up market' eventually. It's less supply chain challenges, less inventory, less labor, less accounting, less operating expenses, less work overall ---> MORE PROFIT !!
1) Establish yourself as a 'value brand'.
2) Transition to prettier casework.
3) Come up with a new solution to a problem that doesn't really exist.
4) Apply lots of marketing hype disguised as technical white papers.
5) Differentiate yourself with even more hype to support #3 & #4
6) Jack your prices through the roof in hopes of supporting the hype and your marketing budget especially those expensive ads to gain favor with the audio review rags.
Optional but more important in recent times:
7) Seed the audio shills on YouTube with loaner review samples, especially those with a huge following.
SUCCESS !!
...the company "tours" with wine and cheese receptions, so you can view their "historical center" and see where they build the last three flagship models (that are actually still built in the US, rather than China)--McIntosh and Klipsch immediately come to mind...
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
a few years ago and their recent line-up shows the upgrade. I've owned two Hyundais (sister Co.) and both were excellent vehicles. For me the difference is that Hyundai has a softer more luxe ride while Kias are more performance oriented. The designs IMO follow suit as well....The Genesis line of cars are wonderful!
.
I'll still have my truck, but I'm not sure there will be any gas stations.
-Rod
Edits: 09/14/21
Maybe even providing more luxury than the Germans.
Or pull rickshaws.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
what if they were to wash their great masses?
can they get a Hyundai?
asking for a kwonpup
regards,
As in 5G the Chinese will simply be removed as transportation is fully networked.
...more concerned with people who just want basic transportation. Like me.
I sure as hell hope the Chinese kick the legacy car makers' asses for them.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
a vehicle that handles well and especially rides well. Especially since we have probably the WORST inner city roads in the nation as well as the WORST agressive drivers! I DO appreciate a well made solid smallish vehicle that can handle the daily commute in So. Calif....
I'll see your So Cal roads/drivers and raise you 880 in Oakland for both. I lived in LA and never moved fast enough to worry about bad drivers, just gunshots. Oakland this past Saturday, oh my God, 2 overturn accidents on the way, both cars, SUV's I get, but how do you flip a car? I'll take the 405 and the 10 any day, not that I want to go back.
What is the deal with those people?! Yikes!And, just as a public service message, you don't want to get lost in certain parts of Oakland. Trust me on this - I know what I'm talking about. Fortunately, I came across several police vehicles finishing up an "incident", and they got me back on track.
And, is any one planning another bridge to SF? Holy crap! I was going from Beserkeley down to McCune Sound (South SF), and it took an hour to go over the SF-Oakland Bay Bridge. That's just nuts.
:)
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
Edits: 09/15/21
Yeah, I know, I was in one of them Saturday. I made the mistake of following my car's navigation system to get back to 880 going home. It was, interesting. And one thing about nav systems, at least mine anyway, it doesn't recognize that two left turn lanes might not be taking you to the same place. I didn't want to go into the tube no thank you very much navigation lady!
NT
Yeah, I make fun of the name, but it's so fitting. :) Actually, I do like visiting there. There are areas, both commercial and residential, which are like stepping back into the 60s or 70s. There's a shop on Shattuck Ave. called... wait for it... "Om". And just up at the corner, there's a guy with a little stand selling... again, wait for it... tie-dyed t-shirts - that HE makes! He's been doing it so long that he's even made t-shirts for The Grateful Dead. I've patronized both businesses. And over on Telegraph Ave., there's the iconic Amoeba Music, where I've also shopped.
I seriously gotta get there again soon, but my buddy John Curl (the guy who designs amplification circuitry products) says they're starting to do C-19 restrictions again, so restaurant opportunities may soon be limited, so I guess we'll just have to see how things unfold over the next month or so.
:)
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
used to refer to as "Zen-Buddha-Buddha" shops. I know Peet's coffee is from that area and there are one or two handmade soap places that I purchased online from whose products I like. I'm sure there are more... I LOVE Peet's and have always wanted to make it over there but time has never permitted when I have been up there. I wonder if the Amoeba is the same as the one in L.A.? Probably.....
Back in the day my favorite Berkeley record store was Rather Ripped Records. Really. It was a different time, just after Peoples Park.
KSAN on the radio, community gardens all over town, neighborhood food coops. Make all the fun you want, but it was a golden age...
Don't forget Fantasy Studios. Studio C was famous for being Creedence Clearwater Revival's studio. It was sold to someone and is a separate business. Fantasy closed about three years ago. I wonder if someone has revived it.
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
I could care less... Just so you know, I HATE the Grateful Dead too. BTW, I see that you're from Oregoon...LOL! THAT tells me ALL I need to know.....
Edits: 09/17/21
Nt.
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
Audi would typically offer 6% in Canada, I got 3%. So I call B.S. on the 15% to above MSRP cited in the article. Abandoning the mass market? Not if you're GM.
But IMO, they've already abandoned the mass market in the US. When they killed the Sonic and the Cruze, that was it.
Mary Barra said the chip shortage--if it's even real--and the pandemic were great for GM. Showed them how they could make more money by building and selling fewer cars.
Ford ain't any better. Entry level after the beginning of 2022 will be the $25K Escape.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
Edits: 09/14/21
Certainly better IMO than the Ford similar offerings the Focus and the Fiesta. Those cars were design nightmares! I would have fired the designers of those cars if it were up to me. Sonic and Cruze were far more solid than either of those Ford cars. The only Ford that I thought was decent was the mid-late 90's version of the Focus (picture). That car rode and performed well. I STILL see alot of those on the road today, which is testament to the fact that it was a good vehicle. My old Saturn Ion was the same car I believe as a Cobalt and later the Cruze. I LOVED my Ion! It was literally indestructible....
Edits: 09/14/21
It's a 2014. I've driven it, and I think it's pretty good. Solid, rides and handles really well. It has that unfortunate DCT. Ford should have known that Americans would never accept an automatic transmission that didn't feel like the Torqueflite in Pap's New Yorker, but I think it would be a great car with a normal step-gear automatic or stick shift. It was fantastically popular, too, at one point the best selling car in the world.
Cruze, according to what I've read, just wasn't as good as the competition from Honda and Toyota. There are issues with the 6-speed transaxle (developed jointly with Ford) and issues with the turbocharged engines.
Sonic's competition was primarily the Mitsubishi Mirage and Nissan Versa, which are shitboxes.
What Ford did was replace a $15K car and an $18K car with a $20K car based on the $15K car only not as good as the $15K car. Now, since Ford is shutting down its India operations, it's killing the $20K car and the cheapest Ford is now $25K.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
It had lots of interior space and rode nice. The CVT tranny was shit and known to have issues, luckily we never had a problem with that. My wife wrecked the car (she's a terrible driver) and I dumped it after that. The redesigned Versa "Note" IS a POS. You couldn't give me one. Nissan killed the nice ride, made it a MUCH lighter vehicle and put a shitty engine in it as well! Even the current Mitsubishi Mirage is IMO a better car than the Versa Note... THAT alone ought to tell you something! AFA the Ford Focus goes, each time they redesigned the car they made the interior space smaller and smaller. The ergonomics in the model that I posted the picture of were perfect for most people.... Nice dashboard layout, controls for windows radio etc. all within easy reach. The redesigned car that your daughter has went to a "cockpit" style drivers position with little leg room and a claustrophobic atmosphere. The dashboard is ugly too IMO... The only thing Ford accomplished with that redesign was making the car "feel" more taut all while making the interior space more cramped. That late 90's Ford Focus and the previous Ford Escort 4 dr. or wagon are the ONLY Fords over the last 20-30 years or so that I would have bought. The rest they could have....
Discontinued a couple of years ago. The Versa itself was redesigned for 2020, looks better, supposed to be a big improvement, but the Sonic was already gonzo by then. The Versa's competition now is the Hyundai Accent and Mitsubishi Mirage. I'd take the Accent over the Versa, and the Versa over the Mirage.
With the Focus, they actually got bigger and bigger, with more interior space. Problem is they raised the beltline and increased the thickness of the roof pillars--supposedly women drivers like small windows, makes them feel safer--and the car lost that airy feel of the first generation. I drove one of the first-gen Foci, my wife considered one when she bought her Cobalt. She hated it, I liked it, but we bought the Cobalt because the Focus was built in Mexico and the Cobalt was built in Ohio.
Like that did any good. GM got the bailout and fucked over its US workforce.
By the way, my sister has a 2006 Nissan Altima that she got used for next to nothing. It's a great car. Rock solid, and tough. Get this--a porcupine chewed through the transmission coolant line. Sister started driving to work, the tranny fluid pumped out all over the road, forward momentum came to a halt.
Mechanic replaced the line, refilled the transmission...and it's worked perfectly since.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
I drove a Cruze. Drove it home from Hertz. Drove it right back and returned it for something else. If that's the best they can do, it's just sad. I have NEVER driven a worse POS in my life.
Apparently, you've never rented a Sonic.
;)
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
But GM has been making shitty cars for over 50 years. They used to have the benefit of being shitty but cheaper than Hondas and Toyotas.
They aren't cheaper anymore, but they're still shitty. Bad as the Cruze might have been, and I'll admit I never drove one, nothing else they make with the exception of maybe the Corvette is any better.
If they abandon the mass market like I've been predicting they will, they can close factories, dump dealerships, lay off workers. Reduce overhead and increase demand for whatever they make.
And as an added benefit, there will be fewer and fewer used cars as the years go by.
I only singled out GM because Ford's CEO du jour has kept mum on the issue of cutting production in order to drive up profits.
Disclaimer--I drive a Chevy Cobalt. And it's shitty. But it was cheap and it gets the job done.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
Edits: 09/14/21
Actually where I live I see lots of GM cars. Malibus are all over, not quite Camry like, but pretty common. Impalas, an actually nice looking one with a big sounding V6, SS I think (went to the website and it's not listed though) Camaro's all over the place. Guess those aren't considered mass market cars though. Trucks seem to be the mass market vehicle now, Chevy, Ford, RAM...everywhere, and I live in Silicon Valley, not really truck country...
Camaro hasn't got long to live either. They're still making the Malibu which completely shocks me, though I'd never buy one. That turbocharged engine is an oil burner, and GM right now is defending itself in a class action lawsuit by claiming that its warranty covers only defects in manufacture. Not defects in design. People had their cars run out of oil (by the time the warning light comes on, it's too late) because the rings didn't seal properly or couldn't handle boost, one of the two, and GM is refusing to honor the warranty.
I wouldn't touch any GM car with a turbo. In fact, if I were buying new, I'd never consider a GM car or truck period. The fuckers took a taxpayer bailout and shifted most of the production outside the US. Baseball, hotdogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet my ass.
Used, different story. Whatever is cheap, rust-free, and gets the job done.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
Edits: 09/14/21
Just so we're all clear, abandoning the Sonic was a really good move.
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
No matter what you thought of the Sonic, it was a decent affordable car for somebody who just wanted basic transportation.
Not all buyers want $40K SUVs or $50K pickup trucks. Sonic probably wasn't any worse than the Toyota Yaris which was an ancient design dating back to the Tercel, and it was undoubtedly better than either the Nissan Versa or Mitsubishi Mirage, both of which cost more than the Sonic did.
GM killed the $15K Sonic and replaced it with the $20K Trax--which is based on the Sonic.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
and Hondas, for many years, drove them over 150k, and sold them for decent money. Pretty much maintenance free. You could have bought used models of those and come out ahead than with the POS GMs.
You buy POS, they keep makin' them. NO reason to improve.
The Japanese marks have been out of my price range since the voluntary import quotas.
Used or new, there's a premium to pay that I can't afford.
I want a Honda but I don't need a Honda. A Chevy or Ford will do, and in reality if you take care of a Cobalt it'll last and be reliable. My car is a POS, but it's 15 years old and if can keep it rust free it'll last another 15 years.
But it's crude. The interior plastics are beyond cheap. The ride is harsh, there's a lot of torque steer, the suspension clunks, the shifter is crap.
That's the difference between good cars and GM cars.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
d
For the better part of 25 years, I was flat ass broke. I drove free cars and cheap cars because I couldn't afford the purchase price on anything else.
Now I can, but I don't want to. I don't like new cars, there's too much unnecessary complexity, they're ugly, they're too big and heavy, and besides driving SUCKS.
My ideal situation would be living in a City neighborhood where I could use my bicycle or walk from place to place and not own a car at all.
As far as "saving money," the Cobalts are perfectly reliable and durable. Nothing's gone wrong with either of them other than normal wear and tear stuff that's a feature of every other car on the road. They're old cars, so there must be some redeeming value there.
They just aren't very good cars. So what?
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
Edits: 09/15/21
But it's crude. The interior plastics are beyond cheap. The ride is harsh, there's a lot of torque steer, the suspension clunks, the shifter is crap.
That's the difference between good cars and GM cars.
I just don't understand your preference for rationalizing buying crappy cars given your level of knowledge and enthusiasm. Two (Vega, Trans Am) was enough for me when I was young and stupid.
I've since enjoyed the quality and durability of Honda products since 1980. No regrets!
When you speak of not being able to afford them, I think you're not considering TCO (total cost of ownership).
Chevrolets are less expensive (or used to be) new and used. They're still less expensive used. I've owned Hondas in the past and loved them, but they weren't any more reliable than the Chevrolets and Fords that have graced my driveway. Assuming the Chevy or Ford in question wasn't already a shuddering pile of junk when I bought it.
Driving isn't fun anymore. Remember Pat Bedard's Anti-Destination League? Yeah, they're hard at work 24/7 here. I can get on a bicycle and ride 35 miles without a break, it's easier than the drive to and from the trailhead.
Increasingly, in my mind, the car is nothing more than appliance. Cheap plastics and harsh ride don't matter to me as long as the car doesn't break and doesn't rust out.
I'd rather spend my money on things I get more enjoyment out of than something that sits in the garage 90% of the time.
Total cost of ownership? I bought the car for $5500. It's a few months away from its 16th birthday. My wife's Cobalt is even older. Both cars have been cheap to own and perfectly reliable, needing nothing more than normal wear and tear items like brakes and tires, clutch replacement.
And thanks to the manufacturers cutting production, the car is still worth at least $5500.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
Edits: 09/15/21
Increasingly, in my mind, the car is nothing more than appliance.
And many people are satisfied listening to compressed music on a table radio. Clearly, you're not an enthusiast. Fine by me!
And thanks to the manufacturers cutting production, the car is still worth at least $5500.
Good luck with that!
Was the Sonic below the Cruze? 'Cause I couldn't see how anything could be below that.
I'm happy to say that I don't know - I've never driven a Cruze. :)
The only reason I even drove a Sonic was because I reserved a compact (or subcompact) and that's what they gave me. Three days in that piece of crap was enough. I felt like I was in a '60s VW beetle or such. Talk about spartan!
People come on here and talk like they know about cars. They're bullshitting. They read car mags and websites and therefore they're knowledgeable. I seriously doubt if Olddude has ever even driven around the block most of the cars he claims to know about.
Back in about 2010-2011, I rented a Ford Fusion three or four times. I liked that car, and, had I been in the market, I would've considered buying one. I've also rented a Hyundai Santa Fe SUV, and I liked it, too, except for a couple of minor things which they may have addressed since then.
I've also rented a Kia Soul. I was a little apprehensive about it, but, once on the road, it was fun and great to drive.
GM Sonic - not so much.
It would be interesting to read about Olddude's experiences driving various cars in recent years.
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
After my MBZ was totaled I drove LOTS of rental cars. The best was a KIA SUV that we took to the airport. When we got to our destination we had a loaded Jeep Grand Cherokee (wife chose it over a Toyota). It died in the middle of an intersection in Sun Valley, Idaho. Just died. I wish she would have taken the Toyota!
Cruze was the absolute worst. Nissan Rogue wasn't much better, Sentra wasn't terrible. It's funny they never have the car they advertise, I always ended up with the "or similar" model they had on the lot.
We rented a Grand Cherokee many years ago on VaCay to Hawaii. Wife wanted one and took this opposrtunity for a 'test drive'.....
Which lasted about 10 miles due to 'It drives like a TRUCK'.......I drove the rest of the time.
Awful, bulky and poor economy.
Last year I rented a Chevy Malibu LT on business up in Idaho. I drove minimally, BUT it was fine.
Had some small 4cyl turbo motor which was the problem. That thing ran HOT. And by HOT? I mean SAUNA / Volcanic HOT. It if went 100k I'd be surprised.......
Too much is never enough
There is also the Spark which is smaller and cheaper still. Just to show how cynical GM management is, there is now an Active package for the Spark. Raised ride height, fake plastic skid plates front and rear, black plastic cladding around the wheel openings. Faux SUV.
And it only costs 20% more than a regular Spark.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
I had an experience with GM's decision making once. I rented a small SUV (I know, but just ignore that for now) called the Captiva. It was pretty nice. Ideal size, drove well, fit all of us. I went online to look it up, it didn't exist for retail sale. It was specifically made for rental fleets. The "equivalent" was the Equinox. Ok, so I went and drove that. Another POS, not even close. GM didn't sell the Captiva because it would cannibalize sales of the Equinox. That was my one near purchase of a GM product. I went on to buy the Acura RDX.
The Equinox was a slightly stretched version of the Captiva. IIRC, GM eventually did make the Captiva available to the public and not just rental companies but that was not long before the car was killed off because it was too close to the Equinox in the GM lineup.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
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