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Here's a link to the reports that led governments to think "Oops!"
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
Follow Ups:
I found this article really interesting.Multiple parties are not telling us the truth.
BTW, I always believed this virus was from that lab and the cover-up was actually very obvious. Who's going to tell the truth now?
Edits: 06/04/21
Any other thing happening in our world today. With any luck, gain of function research will be abandoned worldwide.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
DRASTIC is the internet doing a great service for all mankind. As opposed to being used to sow discord and promote mayhem.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
Apparently borrowing trillions to appease all "suffering" makes up for the miserable failure to defend American life and the American economy.Saw this same kind of squandering of public wealth after the success of the 911 attacks - going from ambivalent on terror to tough on terror cost us plenty. At least there was some greater sense the failures were being addressed.
This time they completely denied and ignore the failures that led to the loss of life and economic shutdown. I'm sure our enemies, both poorly funded and well funded, all around the world have noticed.
Edits: 06/03/21 06/03/21
It cost so many lives.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
Why is this suddenly in the news again? Because the Biden administration stirred the pot. And why did the Biden administration stir the pot? Because Republican PACs have been running TV ads in swing districts targeting Biden and Democratic legislators as soft on China. In my area, they started appearing about a month ago. A few weeks later, Biden announces that he's ordering an investigation.
We're never going to know how the virus got into humans. If it did get out of the lab, and the Chinese government knows it did, we'll never hear about it. That would be the closest guarded secret you can imagine. And if the Chinese government hasn't been able to reach a conclusion, we're not likely to either.
Published on 5/5/21, it's what triggered new concerns about a lab leak.
The most interesting thing that I learned from the report is that bats are not susceptible to the virus. It seems to be designed specifically for the respiratory tract of humans.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
The BAS article is pushing the bioengineering hypothesis.
Biden's investigation isn't even considering that hypothesis, they're looking at accidental lab escape vs. human-animal contact.
They're not related.
Gain function is one kind of bioengineering.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
...-is that bats aren't particularly susceptible to the form of the virus that infects humans. This doesn't preclude the infectious form of the virus having originated in bats, esp if there was an intermediary organism betw bats and humans. It's possible I misinterpreted that part of the article.
What bothers me most about what's being reported now is that Peter Daszak/EcoHealth Alliance was behind the Lancet/virologist letter diminishing the lab leak theory early on while he simultaneously had an interest in the WIoV bat research program. Lancet should have made this potential conflict clear and the mass media should have vetted the letter and authors to a much higher degree than they did if they did at all. Now that the issue has become hopelessly politicized and China's cooperation is essential, I'm beginning to doubt we'll ever know what really happened.
And people internalized the theory which is now highly questionable.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
But though many prefer rumor, conspiracy theories, or superstition, and refuse to accept science, the scientific community will eventually converge on agreement as to the probable source.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
And by "scientific community", I'm specifically referring to the experts in the field of virology, and reputable peer reviewed research. Not scientists in other fields speculating on topics they are not experts in, or a journalist writing for the doomsday clockers.
This is just like global warming. The subject matter experts who actually study the climate for a living came up with a consensus opinion on the most likely cause. But lots of people didn't like the answer, and they included people who had scientific backgrounds but weren't experts in this particular field. So we saw lots and lots of scientific-sounding but wrong arguments against anthropogenic climate change that had to be refuted again and again over a decade or so, before we finally got to the point of general acceptance.
A similar thing happened after the WTC attacks. The credible subject matter experts came to their conclusion fairly early and there was a thorough investigation by the 9/11 commission, but there were plenty of people with scientific or technical backgrounds who wanted to advance the idea that it was an inside job. They spread uncertainty and doubt with technical-sounding but wrong arguments that were good enough to appeal to laypersons who wanted to believe an alternative hypothesis.
It's like deja vu with the SARS-CoV-2 origin theories. For now, the consensus of experts is that the virus is probably of natural origin, and probably got into the human population via accidental lab escape or human/animal contact such as a wet market. And there is no chance of any further forensic analysis without Chinese government cooperation, which isn't going to happen.
Admittedly, the term forensic usually refers to a criminal investigation using scientific methods, but it's sometimes used to characterize a civil investigation such as in a civil suit. At this point, no hypothesis proposes the virus was release intentionally -- the lab release hypothesis is that the release was accidental.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
If you assume it did accidentally get out of the lab, that doesn't speak to the origin. The subject matter experts in the scientific community have already reached a consensus opinion that the virus is of natural origin and was not genetically engineered. The remaining question is whether it was under study in the lab and accidentally got out, or passed from animal to human. That question is only important in terms of whether the safety protocols in the lab are sufficient to be doing these kinds of studies. People want to know what's the risk of something else getting out.
A separate theory is that the virus was engineered. That would be a much bigger deal because it means the Chinese are making bioweapons in violation of the Bioweapons Convention treaty. And worse yet, they're making bioweapons that they are unable to control. Fortunately, there is no support for this hypothesis in mainstream science.
But phrases such as "the importance of" and "the meaning of" conjure opinions rather than facts. I'm generally open to the opinions of thoughtful people. Be well :)
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
...-That article was loaded with "coulds", "mights", "ifs", "seems" and other conditionals. I'm not qualified to critique the "science" but it's clear the author has a political bias and a couple of agendas. The political bias is obvious. One agenda appears to be a halt to viral "gain-of-function" research regardless of goals, who sponsors it or where it occurs even if good might come of such research. Getting to the bottom of sars-cov2 will require the cooperation of China/CCP which seems highly unlikely at the moment so I guess we'll be stuck with articles like this (and opposing) for a good long while.
The science looks pretty good. Ruling out a lab accident is paramount because it's truthfully, the more likely source. Of course, China and WHO have not been too helpful in that regard.
Whether article has political bias, that's obvious in the conclusion. However, it doesn't negate the possibility that COVID did come out of a lab. The QAnon folks would go further, either China took advantage of the accident for Biden's benefit or that was indeed unleashed as a bio-weapon for the same purpose, to destroy the US economy.
I'm not conspiracy theorist, but you have to agree that COVID did affect the election.
Anyway, here's a link of another totally, unabashedly biased article on the same subject that amounts to the author's worse nightmare that's a short read from a layman's perspective.
-Rod
it was Trump's horrendous lying, inept and idiotic response to a pandemic. Had he responded in a manner that was even remotely close to truthful, intelligent and effective he'd still be president. He's still lying at this moment.
You say you're not a conspiracy theory guy but your post regurgitates a politically biased conspiracy theory.
Crazy.
.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
totally agree with the former & couldn't help but notice that a post was deleted when it pointed out the latter
with regards,
Nt.
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
If it happened once, it can happen again - which is why it's so important to know if it happened once. I'm sure nobody wants a repeat performance of a pandemic that keeps us sick, dying, and isolated. Because bats aren't susceptible to COVID-19, I'm betting that it was created in the lab.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
I worked in Laboratories for years. The lab in question was suppose to be a BioSafetyLab BSL level 4, the most dangerous level. They (like many other Lab Techs around the world) sometimes disregard all the safety gear you're required to wear while working. The techs probably geared up to a level 3 or 2 to do the experiments and one mistake is all it takes for exposure.
There have been more exposures from labs before, but we usually don't hear about it until now.
Vanity Fair magazine entitled The Lab Leak Theory. It's long and contains lots of information I had not seen before today.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
Edits: 06/03/21
...-CCP "benefits" or at least is less harmed if sars cov2 can be proven natural in origin. Western democracies benefit if it can be proven to be a lab leak or worse. But proof can't occur wo the cooperation of CCP and so far they're not doing that. The recent WHO investigation was inconclusive in this regard IMO . I believe the rising chorus of "lab leak" supporters is a collective means of coercing the CCP into a more exhaustive investigation including access to the records of those WIOV researchers that became ill with something in late 2019. IOW, remove all reasonable doubt that it wasn't a leak from the lab. Without this, doubt remains and grows tarnishing CCP's international standing and possibly influence. At this point the CCP is probably not ready to do anything more than they already have.
Did covid affect the election? Of course it did but in unpredictable ways. Had the former prez treated covid seriously from the start, he most likely would still be in office today in spite of all his other negatives. Biden/Harris was a profoundly weak team so it was his to win or lose. Barring a Manchurian candidate scenario, CCP could not know beforehand how he or voters would react so at best an intentional covid release would induce (additional) kaos but not necessarily sway the election one way or the other in any predictable way.
Did you notice statements in the Atomic Scientists Report that puts the US in an awkward position regardless of outcome of the natural/leak controversy. The US was apparently providing a small level of funding to WIoV to conduct research in China that some might consider too hazardous to conduct in US based labs. China was a tool of the US military industrial complex. Wonder how CCP feels about that spin on the situation?
Right?
No. Of course not.
Conversely, if it's in The Guardian it has to be false, right?
Right?
No. Of course not.
Can't be both, right?
You're joking, right?
The Guardian article just points to the Bulletin article, and states that if the lab escape hypothesis is proven there will be political ramifications. That's not controversial, right?
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
Could be all of the above.
Most virologist believe it to have evolved in animals. No evidence in its genetic makeup to suggest otherwise.
Could have escaped from a lab that was studying it, or the animal it had infected, by infecting a lab worker who spread it to others.
The conjecture that it was artificially created as a possible biological weapon, as stated by many, is still not at all likely.
That it was a naturally occurring virus in animals that that somehow jumped to humans is still the most likely scenario.
Whether it happened inside or outside a lab is not yet known.
There's a simple way to settle the question except that medical records may be fabricated.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
I tend to agree that the virus is of natural origin--there's lots of nasty stuff out there in nature that we haven't encountered yet. However, I also firmly believe that it was under study at the Institute of Virology and they had an "accident" that released it into the public.
It is just far too "coincidental" that the initially reported outbreak occurred in the immediate vicinity of China's ONLY Level 4 biohazard lab, that has acknowledged and is known for working with various coronaviruses.
I also firmly believe that the initial "accident" and subsequent outbreak occurred in October 2019, but was not acknowledged until the end of December--after it had gotten out of control, and could no longer be ignored/hidden. By the time the world was notified, the virus had a 3-month head-start, which I consider to be a significant factor in it becoming a global pandemic.
Not hatin', just sayin'...
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
And, additionally, the first vector identified was a human. Yet, the majority of elite science experts just turned a blind eye to these "coincidences", and displayed no science curiosity or intellectual rigor in considering the lab origin theory.Hmmm. You have to wonder why. At the very least.
Edits: 06/03/21
If the author has a political agenda, it escapes me. Here's what the Bulletin article left with me:
"A defining mark of good scientists is that they go to great pains to distinguish between what they know and what they don't know... the Lancet letter had been organized and drafted by Peter Daszak (who)... funded coronavirus research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (and thus had an) ... acute conflict of interest not declared to the Lancet's readers. To the contrary, the letter concluded... We declare no competing interests... A second statement... in the journal Nature Medicine... was another case of poor science, in the sense defined above... Neither the natural emergence nor the lab escape hypothesis can yet be ruled out (but curiously enough bats themselves are not susceptible to the ""bat virus" -- an observation that the natural emergence hypothesis has not yet explained)... "Truth is the daughter," said Francis Bacon, "not of authority but time."
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
And yet it could be both.
A virus emerged naturally in animals, was being investigated by scientists in a lab, infected someone working in that lab who passed it on to others.
Nor believe it. ;)
-Rod
But whatever the truth, Qanon will never know.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
"Most virologist believe it to have evolved in animals. No evidence in its genetic makeup to suggest otherwise.
Could have escaped from a lab that was studying it, or the animal it had infected, by infecting a lab worker who spread it to others.
The conjecture that it was artificially created as a possible biological weapon, as stated by many, is still not at all likely.
That it was a naturally occurring virus in animals that that somehow jumped to humans is still the most likely scenario.
Whether it happened inside or outside a lab is not yet known."
*********
Let's review:
"Most virologist believe it to have evolved in animals."
What evidence is there to support that hypothesis?
"No evidence in its genetic makeup to suggest otherwise."
And, no evidence to support it.
"Could have escaped from a lab that was studying it, or the animal it had infected, by infecting a lab worker who spread it to others."
Could have.
"The conjecture..."
Conjecture, also known as "guessing"
"it was a naturally occurring virus in animals that that somehow jumped to humans is still the most likely scenario."
You know this 'how'? What science and studies are there to show that?
"Whether it happened inside or outside a lab is not yet known."
Yet, the lack of its prevalence among 'critters' in the area would suggest that the China virus isn't 'popular' among animals.
What to think?
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
Published 6/3/21 entitled The Lab Leak Theory. This is the biggest forensic mystery in history and better than a Sherlock Holmes story. The best scientists in world are working on solving it.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
A must read.
Looks increasingly like there was a leak and a cover-up in Wuhan :(
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
on the other hand, one might consider whether Vanity Fair is a superior source to Forbes when they're each fluff on the other side of a dyed Easter chick with one [and with very little doubt] printing rehabilitation spin disseminated by an embarrassed and bruised political entity trying to pull a Phoenix act in a media come back rally for future election fortunes
despite where Covid19 came from the response is the most important thing
whether a deliberate concerted bio-weapon attack, accident, or natural ...
the response by those in power with the responsibility charged with protecting the country achieved a grade of ... FAIL!
should anyone wish to engage in grading on a curve with other countries or 'whataboutism' those quibbles also achieve debate points of ... FAIL!
ah well, enjoy the flights of fancy and fancy flights, airfare is cheap these days ... because of a PANDEMIC!
good luck!
I disagree with Ethan Siegel in that the lab leak theory isn't a conspiracy theory, but it entails a cover-up by the lab... which is not far-fetched. If two or more people at the lab agreed to lie about a leak, then technically it was a conspiracy. But I'd be happy to just call it a lie, because conspiracy sounds too cloak-and daggerish.It sounds like Ethan Siegel is arguing that a lab leak shouldn't be on the table.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
Edits: 06/03/21
'a lab leak shouldn't be on the table'
no it shouldn't ...
and if it was they should have quickly cleaned the table with bleach!
seriously, why punt theories now when it's being investigated?
these articles that are cropping up sure have more than a whiff of the scent of disseminated and planted political spin; the timing & everything
you know, there were US based research scientist as part of that lab's team ... that's a fairly common practice in foreign labs as a 'listening post' is established for monitoring activities as a bonus
they were withdrawn from the program shortly before the outbreak due to budget cuts ... however, if there weren't best practice involved in the procedures being used in the research, surely they would have come forward by raising alarms ... one would think anyway
best regards,
Wade was writing about a consensus within that group as to the probable source of the virus, namely that it was leaked from the Wuhan lab.
I believe the group has been the keeper of the doomsday clock since Hiroshima. Perhaps the world ends with a whimper of disease? Perhaps not of COVID-19, since we now have effective vaccines. But there are certain to be future pandemics of diverse origins.
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
consensus without all the facts in hand being what it is ...
it seems a lot of speculative comments by scientist get spun up in the media and distorted
not that a 'publish or die' and 15mn of fame ethos / mindset is of any help when they make them ...
but the Doomsday Clock!
*!*
Hopefully :)
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
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