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In Reply to: RE: Engine Math...a little posted by pictureguy on April 19, 2021 at 16:20:41
Never owned a 283, was never a fan as I was wanting power in a more usable RPM range. I do agree, well set up for higher revving.
For GM V8 motors, I've had a 262, 2 305's (dogs), a cammed 350 LT1 and a 346 LS6.
The main point about a V8 of the same displacement, yes, and would sound cool too.
Follow Ups:
We had a 2 door hardtop Chevy Chevelle Malibu back in the day it had a 307 engine ,was it different from the 305 ?
Edits: 04/21/21
The 307 had a smaller bore than the 305 or 350. Unsure why Chevy offered both, perhaps trying for more torque (longer stroke...)
"The 307 had a smaller bore than the 305 or 350. Unsure why Chevy offered both, perhaps trying for more torque (longer stroke...)"
The 307 was an Olds engine.
307 an Olds motor? Not that I'm aware of. It was offered in many GM vehicles, definitely not Olds specific.
Thanks Grant !
Chevy did a LOT of mix nd match with I don't offhand know how many bore sizes and available cranks.
The 302, for example? 327 bore of 4" and a 283 crank of 3"......Lots of rev potential and a real screamer and teh drag strip....
The 307 was the OPPOSITE. A 283 bore and 327 crank, making a low-perf stroker.
than it gets really weird, on up the the 400 and the '383 'crate' motor.....
Too much is never enough
"Chevy did a LOT of mix nd match with I don't offhand know how many bore sizes and available cranks."
Chevy did a few things we liked. First of all hiring Duntoff, the cam genius. And all Chevy trannies fit everything. You could go from a three on the tree to a THM400 as long as it fit the body. It would bolt up but you might have to see the driveshaft guys.
And now that I think of it a 3307 may have been installed in some Chevies. they had Cadillacs with Olds engines, and I had an Olds Cutlass that had a Vette engine in it, still 350 but it really felt different. Actually that car may have been hot, I should have pulled the engine for something else. But it ran damn good. When you kicked in passing gear it had a bit of a strange sound like Whoooooooop increasing in pitch as the car accelerated. I had plenty with Olds engines and while they were better out of the hole, this thing, well I didn't have a handy one to race with it. I think my sister had one but it was not running right, actually needed a head gasket I think, but it did well at higher RPMs. But that is not what I wanted to race. I wanted it how it ran right, like when new or close.
Buddy with a '67 or '68 SS396 Malibu of 325hp.....factory.....
Raced another buddy with a 10 year OLDER Olds with some Big V8......In 3 races the Chevy won 'em all but by no more than 1 1/2 car lenghts PER race. Hardly a dominating win.
Later models of what came to be known as the 442 were nice and I'm guessing certain versions are even collectible....
I don't know enough about it, but an Engineer at work.....VERY buttoned down (tie every day) had a son who raced a BUICK with small V6 / Turbo...... Guy was Chinese and a real RACER. But from the look of him? STraight guy with worst habit being unshined shoes.....
And now that I htink about it? How about the SOHC 6 from Pointiac? VERY quick and some models came with a 4bbl.. I wonder if THEY have a following?
Too much is never enough
Edits: 04/21/21
'2 door hardtop Chevy Chevelle Malibu 2 door hardtop'
that's a two roof four door ... probably rare & worth a lot
; )
We had the 283 2bbl in about a '62 or '63 Impala. Nothing special, but a competent people movier.
The one prior to that was a 6 and emitted an 'arf arf' noise at the filling station.....
The later wagon my dad bough was a 327 4bbl and THAT got down the road jut fine.....and had one of the 3 speed automatics....Turbo something?
265 not 252? And the 305 was I think the 327 crank in a 283 block.....a Stroker.... My brother had a 350 in his late'50s Corvette. Lots of Thrust. 346? Never heard of it....but that doesn't mean much
Neighbor JUST SOLD a Bicayne WAGON with a 409 w/2x4bbl. REALLY terrific noises and a great cruier. Guy he sold it to? Already on the path to ruin with 20" wheels and who knows WHAT else?
Too much is never enough
Turbo Hydramatic 3 speed auto. A heavier duty unit was the Turbo 400, usually only in big block cars IIRC.
It was a 262 V8, in a V8 Monza (and I think only came in the Monza, maybe in other small GM vehicles however).
All the blocks are essentially the same; the small block Chev, AKA the SBC (262 to 400).
The 305 had a smaller bore than the 350, same stroke. I had one in a 70's Camaro (bought from my bro, bleh) then later another V8 Monza. This one came with a 305 manual tranny, but I dropped in a cammed 350LT1 motor.
The 346 is the LS motor size. Smaller bore longer stroke than the old 350. The LS6 variant (405HP) came in my 04 Z06.
"Turbo Hydramatic 3 speed auto. A heavier duty unit was the Turbo 400, usually only in big block cars IIRC"
I think you mean the Hydramatic. They were a heavy ass bitch. When they got to the THM400 they had much more going for them. Lighter for one, and the bigger gearset made possible a lower low gear.
With the new torque convertor they had some minor control over stall speed, so these things would take off at 5:1. If not for that convertor you would need a truck transmission to do it and that definitely means bucket seats, small ones. The actual gear ratio is like 2.6:1.
I had one apart a few times, the valve body is a veritable analog computer. The book showed where convertor pressure went, governor pressure, vacuum modulator pressure. These all go to valves with multiple pistons that calculate when to shift - better than you can because it had engine parameters at the time than you do. These multiple pistons act like gates in a computer. Get to a certain point it is time to shift.
they also had electric passing gear, good to 70MPH they said, but in my Toronado the THM425 which is the same thing but folded for front wheel drive had a passing gear at 105MPH. I didn't take it much farther, I needed a tire and it took LR78s, the highest rating I could find on town was a JR78. not to mention it was on the front. But the one I worked on was a later one, my road ripper was a 1970, this was IIRC a 1976.
But remember I had the book on it. This book, damn, had a diagram of the valve body just like a schematic and had actual overlays, printed on clear plastic that you put on the main drawing to see what just happen when...whatever. I wonder if they even print books like that anymore.
I just looked up the small-block WIKI.
7 differnt bore sizes
5 different stroke sizes
10 displacements made.
Some of 'em were AFTER I dropped out.....so were new to me.
Chevy did a LOT of mix / match to get 10 'different' sizes from available Bore /Stroke.....
Too much is never enough
It was a very simple equation and motor. Same block, so many options to go with. To me the 350 made the most sense. The 400 had thin walls, liners IIRC. Any 4" bore motor made the most sense to my taste, as it in theory would also be lightest (apart from the 400)... more cubes, less weight, good numbers. :)
The 383 stroker was/is a great option for those interested in squeezing good cubes out of that block.
"The 400 had thin walls, liners IIRC"
Nope, no liners. that was the problem, when they blew they blew. That 400 small block by Chevy was a mess. Colloquially called the 402, they did move, but well...
We had one that needed a flywheel. The starter gear ring was toast on it. Not available but they had a 350 one and we put that in. Come to find out, to change the flywheel in those for some reason (the stroke of course) to balance the crank you had to send it with the flywheel because the weights were on that, not the crank. We just drove it with the vibration, is was a rag.
When they blew, many times you would find a rod up through a cylinder wall. Piston broken to pieces like it was hit by a truck.
They moved, but you had to respect certain limits, main thing was the tach. I would not ever even consider taking one beyond 6,000RPM. People did though and then they needed a new block, set of pistons and maybe a valve or two.
"The 383 stroker was/is a great option for those interested in squeezing good cubes out of that block"
Those were high block, not low block. They used those terms instead of small and big. They are hard to find, they are out there but nobody wants to sell.
Neighbor has 3 or 4 different sets of HEADS for the smallblock.....
An additional complication....
Too much is never enough
I would think all of the big 3 were similar in that regard. I owned a few Ford V8 vehicles, but never did any internal work. Different heads for different needs. Smaller cubes do best with certain heads, modified motors, etc. It all works, or at least did back then. So easy if you were "into it".
And gave room for experiment and improvisation.......
I wonder how well the dodge 340 heads worked on the 318, with a big cam? That sort of thing...
Too much is never enough
Only owned minivans from Dodge. I really know nothing of their motors (other than the very basics).
Edits: 04/20/21
My '56 Windsor had a 331 'wedge' motor. But it was actually closer in look to the BB Chevy of 396 / 427 / 454 with the 'scalloped' valve covers. I think 2 plus were 'forward' facing and 2 'rear'....on each side. This meant a siamesed pair of exhaust valves in the middle of the head.....It was a SINGLE rocker shaft design but valves NOT in a single row......
Carb was an EARLY and very pre AFB Carter called a WCFB which was a pair of 2bbl back-to-back in one casting.
They called it 'polysperic' and looks to have been revived by CHEVY a few years later.....
check out the link.....
Too much is never enough
In Mopar small block V8s, they had similar -
318 and 340 had the same stroke, 340 obviously with a larger bore.
The 360 had the 340 bore with longer stroke.
But the 340 was the one that responded beautifully to some porting work, headers and a cam.
Keep Your Hands Clean,
John K
had a ride in a 340 and it was a MONSTER in disguise. I have no idea what the owner had done, but it was a real 'pin you in the seat' kind of ride.
My point in all this is that PISTON AREA tends to govern. More cylinders adding to the same displacement as fewer / larger cylinders has MORE HP POTENTIAL at any given state of development.
My S-2000 of 2hp per cubic inch? AND a stroker? Did so at 9000rpm.....
Too much is never enough
I've never owned a Dodge except for 3 minivans. But I had a buddy who had a Duster with a nicely built 340, that motor was nice. It was definitely the Mopar small block motor to be had to my recollection.
out on the SD family farm: lots of torque, decent acceleration, dependable starter in MN winter.
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