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In Reply to: RE: One of my favorite album covers.... posted by pictureguy on April 17, 2021 at 17:58:58
what I used to do is cut two pieces of b/w printing paper (usually 1/2 of a 4x5 sheet), take one and step outside the dark room exposing it to light for about 10 seconds. I'd then bring it back into the darkroom and process both sheets (the second sheet never left the darkroom). Those two pieces would be the baseline ranges for absolute highlights and shadows (if the chemicals were fresh you'd have solid black and pure white pieces).If you've been printing all day in the same pans you'd get different results due to chemical exhaustion. This wasn't necessarily a 'bad' thing, ie for prints going into the base newspapers we'd always print those with low contrast anyway (once a photograph hits the newspaper printers an enormous amount of contrast is added which was unavoidable).
BUT if you there on a Sunday after shooting all weekend a fresh batch of chemicals is what you'd want for your pics to stand out.
The golden standard for us (since the first day of school) was the ability to 'shoot for highlights, process for shadows'. The end product being everything from those two pieces of black and white test strips, and every shade of gray (contrast) of b/w in-between. Of course not everything in life is 100% shades of gray leading up from black to white.
The Navy biomedical photography school (separate and totally different than the regular Navy photographer's school) was a year long in the D.C. area with one project due per week. One of the projects mid way through was the 'egg and coal' project. This was at the time the most difficult to photograph (for newcomers at least) and the most anxiety ridden because it is an almost impossible task to render the egg's outer white shell-with stark brightness and detail, along with the pitch-black chunk of coal's surface along with shadow detail in it's cracks and crevices.
I would look around the room at my classmates and sometimes chuckle at some of the techniques they were using (we'd have a week to finish each project).
Long story short, I shot it using the 'less is more' approach..I used a old 8x10 negative from a old 8x10 camera they used in the room as an 'old prop'. Much like what Ansel Adams used.
I asked a guy in the main photo lab over in the hospital order me a box of 8x10 negatives in advance. He kind of looked at me strange but seeing groups of students roll through there's nothing that really surprised him. For the background I used a sloping/sweep of simply a white poster board.
Took me a while to find the right chunk of coal out of the box and the eggs were standard jumbo size. I used hidden chewing gum to prop the egg up and the coal stood on it's own.The lighting was two flood lights, the key light (main light) was position to bring out the deep, dark crevices of the coal while maintaining the surface structure. The second, fill light was positioned further back and high. It lit the egg and provided the background lighting.
Took me a whole weekend by myself in the classroom to get it right along with a few packs of b/w polaroid prints (kids today have NO clue of our struggle lol).
Since our projects were always 8x10 prints, this particular 'print' I turned in was essentially a 8x10 'contact sheet' (negative is placed on the printing paper versus shot through a printing lens). The negative was shot metered off the egg because it's IMPOSSIBLE to 'add' detail after the fact vs 'bring out' detail later on in processing and printing.
Granted this wasn't a 'one and done' deal, it took me a good part of the week to get the right sequence and processing times down (and some burning/dodging in the darkroom).
The end project floored everyone in the class. The 'less is more' is the fact that no printing lenses were used/needed (well that's because we didn't have a 8x10 darkroom printer lol..But since there was no magnification, what you saw is what you got, meaning the cropping HAD to be perfect at the time of the shot.
The coal in real life was only about 5 inches tall, but on the print it looked like a majestic 'mountain'. The little pits and crevices where rendered with detail. Even the darkest shadows had detail. The egg right next to it was pure white and with the fine minute 'pebble like' scaling that eggs have (if observed closely). The background was a non-intrusive sloping, gradient grays.
I was told by the elder instructor I had the most incredible coal piece he'd ever seen. And to have shot it on his old, favorite 8x10 camera (which NO one had ever done up to that time) was the deal sealer.
I got a A+ and the print went up in the 'wall of shrine' where future classes would see it.
After I left my instructors told me at least 2-3 students per class would try to use the camera but never really got close to my print.
Sorry, I don't usually like tootin' my own horn but all this talk of b/w (which truly is a lost art) prints brought back a flood of fond memories for me :).
And before anyone ask, no - I have no inclination to return to b/w processing/printing.
Edits: 04/18/21 04/18/21 04/18/21 04/18/21 04/18/21 04/18/21Follow Ups:
and I don't know anything about processing photos.
Would love to see some of your "work" from that era.
If you can put so much enthusiasm and effort into a story like that,
the physical end result must be extraordinary!
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
All photos taken while in Medical photography school, all models (excluding my niece 'Poppy' and my shy 3 y/o daughter Angela (who's now 32) were all military attending Navy schools there in Bethesda.
seen are some notes I found at the bottom of the box (I didn't even know I had) taken back during photos sessions (late 1980s)
At that time I hadn't done a lot of formal portraits and I wanted to score high on upcoming projects so I placed notices around the school asking for models. It was a win/win situation because I got the experience I needed and they got to keep the pics!
The two bottom landscapes were both shot on 4x5 infrared negative film. Infrared has very limited uses in photography other than abstract interpretation and some industrial uses. However in medical it's useful because it can be used in clinical studies since infrared light penetrates the skin about a 1/10th - 2/10 of an inch and often reveals veins beneath the skin which you would otherwise never see.
All pics are 16x20 in and printed on beautiful (and I mean "Beautiful" Ilford paper).
That building btw is Naval Hospital Oakland nestled in the beautiful and upscale Oakland hills, my first duty stationed after the school. Within 2 years after arriving I was put in charge of running the med photo dept. This was 1990-1995, best 5 years of my life : ) Decommissioned in 1995-1996, it has since been torn down. A ton of great memories.A little better pic of my daughter at Easter 1990:
Edits: 04/19/21 04/19/21 04/19/21 04/19/21 04/19/21 04/19/21 04/19/21 04/19/21
LIke!
The landscape and the Hospital are great!
Your daughter is (was) a sweetie!
The permanent teeth arriving pic is classic!
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
most excellent framing and light ... a very good eye in fact
certainly elicited some nice captures for the portraits
you should be proud to show those anywhere to anyone
with regards,
I'm glad this thread is slowly sinking to the bottom, I hate photos of myself lol..these are not necessarily those I've taken but are from that era, I'll have to dig in the attic for my stuff laterthis is me as the OJT at my first photo dept, one of my first assignments was to follow and take pictures of the Commanding officer and Lou Rawls as he visited the active duty guys in the hospital
me at the actual biomed photo school in Bethesda, Md totally unaware and photographed by a fellow student (Rick M) who's a friend on fb
Me (below) at my first duty station after graduating as a medical photographer. The duty station was Naval hospital Oakland, Ca. Had the absolute best time of my life, the Bay area is beyond words. This was in the 90s where I would take up bike riding, the fellow behind me is Wael, he was the OJT there and the guy who would take the next photo below. We've remained friends to this day and he's visited me several times over the years (his brother lives in my community). Herb, the gentleman sitting ran the Audio/visual dept we fell under. Ponce (young guy in the back) was his assitant, Roger (tall guy in front) was the video tech, he was a hoot lol..I got there in 1990; sadly Congress shut down that hospital in 1995
as well as the Army hospital in San Fran, and pretty much ALL the bases in the bay area.Whats crazy is I was there right after the World series Earthquake, the Rodney King riots, the OJ trial and verdict, and the devastating Oakland hills fire which at that time was the most costly in U.S. history.
Me and my buddy Wael argue about this pic all the time .. we were waiting on an award ceremony to start behind us at the O' club, I had the camera all set up and ready to go and handed it over to Wael and said "here, take my pic"...HE says since he took the pic, he gets all the credit for it LoL..that argument has lasted over 27 years :)
At this point my photo confidence was through the roof, I shot portraits of friends and neighbors in our livingroom where I had my studio set up, part of my business was 'if you couldn't come to me, I'd bring the studio to your house'. For lighting I used the old 'white lightning' 'cans' with different backgrounds.I also shot numerous military formal balls all lined up by me by simply calling the Command master chiefs or Army and Marine SgtMajors, and say: "Sgtmaj, hi, I'm a Navy photographer here at Oaknoll Naval hospital and I was wondering if you have a in-house photographer lined up for your upcoming Marine Corps ball? from there I'd have them eating out of my hand LoL....great times, man I miss it!
Word eventually got around I was the man with the camera and I'd get at least a wedding or two a month. I used a sliding scale depending on the guy (or girl's) rank. My best was a wedding I shot in San Jose at this absolutely beautiful cathedral, it was incredible.In fact that business card is a photo I made in my living room and superimposed the words (loooong before home computers were around).
Ok I'm done - lol
Edits: 04/18/21
Obviously being a photographer is a great way to meet people!
Have to have the right personality AND the proper skills to make it click.
(shutter joke....)
Must have been nice to hear Lou Rawls' wonderful voice in person
(not in performance or on TV), especially when directed to you.
Personally, I think it's fun to delve into certain artistic accomplishments from
the past every once in a while (if they've been set aside for a time) and find/discover
some new aspect of them to celebrate.
If you have them of course - which it sounds like you do!
It's good for the heart, mind and soul and as the years go by we need to nurture those.
Sounds like you're taking good care of your physical self with the bike...
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
thanks, I'll try and dredge some up, but don't expect Ansel Adams quality lol..Here's my old instructor using the speed graphic 4x5 we were all fond of:
...
I'm going to DM him to see if those old photos are still around (the school closed some years ago but it wont hurt to ask since I've since lost that print
Edits: 04/18/21
Using an 8x10 was certainly a bold choice. For creative purposes? WOW is all I can say. Triumphed in what pepole who know even a little about photography is a 'worst case' scenario.
fitting the dynamic range from pure white to just black AND getting the shadows right is tough and for ME, a big ot luck AND bracketing.......if possible.
That's why I liked using Kodak NC films at weddings. It was what came AFTER Vericolor S and was better in most ways. First wedding I shot (after a 1 roll 'test') had perfect contrast and you could see right into the folds of the black tux slacks the men were wearing.....And no blown highlights. Of course, flash was in use to 'even' things out a bit. But still? I could never have got those shots with ANY of the Kodacolor I'd ever used.
As for Grey Scale? Good Improv. The trick, is of course, the MIDDLE tones. If you are still processing, I have both a Color and B&W Dataguides from KODAK. Info about most of the films is gone and I haven't seen E3 processing in decades....BUT, the technical stuff is good and not only does each book include a GREY SCALE but a step tablet, too.....
Want 'em? Still good material with the B&W even having all the TMax films listed....
Since you guys at class were Film Based, any problem with simply bracketing your way to success?
Maybe a couple rolls of same +- exposures followed by different development times? Without knowing what YOU know, that's the way I'd start......?? Any merit to that approach?
I know, THAN you hae to PRINT IT.....something I was always weak at. Not having any schooling OR mentoring, I learned by myself, and probalby HALF o THAT was wrong!
Too much is never enough
Especially with b/w which had a HUGE latitude for exposure correction (if I'm not mistaken '7 stops!' and I think Pan-X had even more..although during certain operating room cases where there are 'no take backs' I did bracket early on because we were using ekatchrome and you're lucky to get the 1/2 stop latitude Kodak claim it had it.
Personally I used a gray card for b/w metering it with a spot meter especially for landscapes.
Other up-close work our Nikon flashes pretty much nailed it each time
thanks for the offer but I'm ok on litature.
that's what my first Digital camera reminded me of......Transsparency film......I shot lots of HS Ektachrome @400 (push) and if I wanted saturation? Drop 1/3 stop to 125.......
Fuji Velvia was also picky. Bad color balance for PEOPLE but terrific for NATURE. I can't remember, but I think many people bumped it 1/3 stop on a regular basis......
My Go-To transparentcy was Provia. I think you could get it at 1600 or 3200? Don't remmeber.
But I DO remember Fuji 800ASA print film, which was for me much better than Kodak which always seemed 'blocky' to me.....I think Fuji called it 'Superia'.......
I kind of go a different direction for metering. I use my Sekonic as an incident meter ON the subjects. Both those dataguides I reffered to have grey cards in 'em.....
Never used flash until I started doing weddings. But I must say that the Nikon Metering system is great. Even If i'm being picky, 1/2 a stop is about IT for corrections. Viewfinder CAN have a full histogram display, but I seldom use it. distracting.
And NOBODY but the dedicated Home Develpper would want either of my dataguides. The color guide is from '68 (was 4.95$ than) and the B&W is from '88 and was 12.95$ Nested with these guides was a Kodak B&W darkroom guide. Perfect for the newbie....
Too much is never enough
Edits: 04/18/21 04/18/21
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