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Average used car payment in the US is over $400/per month, despite declining interest rates.
That's "used."
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
Edits: 03/25/21Follow Ups:
Forced change or "death" can be a good thing if it is managed correctly.
Maybe we need fewer and less accessible objects, not more ?
but isn't that the idea with used cars? They're already built, the resources required are already factored in.
But yeah, I'm with you on less consumption.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
This is AMERICA!!
We NEED our stuff.
Watch that progressive thinkin'!
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
We currently own a 2009 Prius (Wife bought new, to my horror) now with 150K+ miles, a 2005 VW Touareg , bought in 2016 with 103K miles, and a 2002 Dodge Ram 1500, bought in 2017 with 58K (really) miles.
Check the service history, buy them old (preferably with low miles) for cheap, and drive them until they drop.
Please notice I said "own". We haven't had a car loan since 1991 (Wife's new Saturn SC-2. POS. Happy to see it go, but I didn't care at the time... it was what she wanted).
The Prius was worth buying new... Routine (minimal) maintenance expenses for 12 years, but no other repairs... other than body damage from hitting a fox on the interstate in 2014, and teaching my daughter to drive in 2018. I don't fit the car, or like driving it... but it's not my car! We currently don't give a crap (can I say that) about scratches, dings, etc.
The VW has over 60K miles since we bought it, and the Dodge just under 40K miles. It blow my mind a little that I own a 19-YO vehicle with under 100K miles...
My daughter pranged the front end of the WV at a gas station, shortly after getting her license in 2019, but I didn't care that much... It was already old, and relatively cheap (Less than 20% of original MSRP) when I bought it in 2016. I like to think that the battle scars on the Touareg keep parking lot warriors with new cars properly advised that I'm a driver who "just doesn't care"! We bought my daughter a 2010 Honda Fit Sport in 2019 (80K miles). The smaller footprint suits her. She hasn't hit anything in the past 2 years, and feels much more confident in the vehicle. That's good for everyone out there.
If we average our annual maintenance and repair costs, we don't exceed $400 per month, combined, on the Prius, the Dodge, the Touareg, and Holly's Fit. Please note: I do my own oil changes, summer/winter tire changes, and minor maintenance here at home. If you need a mechanic for these services, YMMV, and your maintenance $ will not go quite as far.
The Touareg has been the main offender for service dollars. Again, I don't really care... It's my main ride, and I love the overall vehicle quality, the 4WD competency (we live in VT, where 4WD actually matters for the Winter and Mud Seasons), and the V-8. A guy's gotta have some vices!
The WV is still pretty (and 320 HP V-8)... except for the gas station boo-boo. The truck is not so pretty... but who wants a pretty truck? They're gonna get dinged up, if you use them as trucks. I'm delighted that I don't have to care about appearances, as a general rule. All 4 vehicles are very reliable, because I religiously maintain them.
I'm never gonna win bragging rights at the Drive-in, but I stopped caring about that back in '80, when my hometown Drive-in closed. I do have some bragging rights about my IRA, though... That's where the extra car money has been going since 1991. Since I'm now 60, I am looking forward to not worrying about eating, or where I'm gonna sleep, in the 5 (7? 10?) years left before I retire.
Paid cash for it 6 years ago.
Wife's car is 16 years old. Been paid off since 2007.
My car is in terrific shape but wife's car is rusting out and it's only a matter of time. I know sooner or later the hydraulic throwout bearing will need replaced and that'll be $1000 but it's cheaper than buying a new car.
Don't care about bragging rights, how fast it'll go from 0-60, etc.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
Good Call!
Rust killed the cab mounts on my 02 GMC 2500 HD, which led to the 02 Ram. I miss the GMC...
we can find a body shop that can weld in new rockers for not much money, we might do it. The shop can finish the car in primer and I'll put the color on with a rattle can if necessary.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
Don't look for government to get behind it unless it's a city trying for conventions or sporting events.
Sapiens, My Ass
Georgia Republicans Just Made It a Crime to Give Voters Water
nt
Expansion of the student loan program supported colleges increasing prices. Like longer auto payment terms we've seen industry removing and modifying regulations and accepted standards in order to increase prices and thus profits.You see lots of this kind of crap in health care. Medicare could have been a cost control (this is why Obamacare was so hated) that turned into a profit center for industry escalating prices.
And agriculture and oil. What a farce - government in bed with folks polluting our air and destroying our environment, and other folks promoting diabetes and cardiovascular disease. Creating new profit centers for the health care industry.
Of course the financial sector gets a piece of it all.
This shit just goes on and on and on...
Edits: 03/25/21 03/25/21
"This shit just goes on and on and on... "
No, YOUR Shit just goes on and on .......
Not my problem that you deny what's happened and happening right in front of your face.
Edits: 03/25/21 03/25/21
Obamacare's "hate" was completely and totally a partisan issue. As it was enacted, with plenty of compromises, it still had less yearly increases than the previous president's system.
I said Obamacare was a control and that's why it was hated. The fact that it reigned in costs was why it was opposed. At the voter level we see the typical smear campaigns mostly fueled by misinformation to convince those whose minds are mostly already made up to see it as a great evil.
I'm tracking what you said Goober ...
it's amazing how many people's minds get made up by other people isn't it?
I'm thinking it's not as much a lemming metaphor as it is a stampede dynamic
*sigh*
like I said, the ACA was pretty popular unless it was called Obamacare
really got watered down 'reaching across the aisle' to be bi-partisan
lesson: don't look for bargaining in good faith where there isn't any
regards,
To Joe Lieberman?
yes, that's a specimen from the past ... there's a Manchin problem now
he's enjoying his new found power broker position a little too much I'd say
regards,
d
They didn't get it due to working hard and earning too much. But they are glad to pay the extra taxes and share with you!
LOL!
I don't think it matters if a person is conservative, liberal or socialist. I doubt if many people AT ALL will "send it back". I'll probably put it toward my future Federal taxes. Paying myself back, so to speak, for a loan I didn't ask for.
****
"So it is written, so it shall be."
you'll notice that I didn't respond to Tin because that post was a non sequitur, but your statement that 'they are glad to pay the extra taxes and share with you' doesn't describe any 'conservative' I've encountered over the last 50 years ... who and where are these sharing souls you describe?
I think that you're trying to pull someone's leg there mon frère
regards,
'this is why Obamacare was so hated'
'compromise' and propaganda are the real reason but the ACA was actually fairly popular unless it was called Obamacare ... go figure
'This shit just goes on and on and on... '
yes it does .. oh, you left out 'big pharma'
regards,
You know folks who worked hard but couldn't afford coverage.
We have had Cadillac insurance plans most of our working lives so it wasn't about us personally - it was about other working people who were not so fortunate.
Though it could save us if we lose coverage a couple of years before retirement.
It's a great idea. It threatened the profits of both the health care industry and the insurance industry and thus lots of money was thrown into legislative support and campaigns to convince the public that it was a very bad thing indeed.
it indeed threatened income streams from industry > lobbyist > politicians
can't have that!
as it so often turns out a huge conflict in public interests is what's good for the country is very often bad for business and the way that's conducted
huh, wonder how long before these threads go *poof* or get locked
From the outside looking in it seems that one of th problems with US healthcare is that there is no one involved who benefits from a healthier population.
With the UK NHS doctors are salaried so the the healthier the patients signed up with them are the less work they have to do for the same money.
It kinda works...
it's like religion ... misery sells (and it loves company)
of keeping a car past payoff of traditional length terms. Not 72 month plans where you quickly find yourself underwater.
nt
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
We see it almost everywhere except in services and rents. The CPI isn't really reflecting it, which is keeping rates low and the housing and stock markets up.
d
How do they manage to get that number - it defies any common sense. Every time you buy something you bought before there is huge price hike.
In one recent example I looked at the cost of International Priority - their Small Flat Rate box was $26 just a few months ago.
Today? Why... $39.
There you have that 1.5%... and then some...
(later CPI - earlier CPI) / earlier CPI X 100 = inflation rate
varies by locale
varies by measured time frame
varies by goods / services measured
CPI is a lagging indicator not just because of reporting cycles it's because it's affected by Store of value, Medium of exchange, Unit of account ... 'true inflation' figures are always forensic
with regards,
Fucking chicken leg quarters are up 20% in the past month. Butter, also. Ask a Mom how much Captain Crunch is up from a year ago.
On second thought, maybe Mom is OK with the Captain being up.
Sapiens, My Ass
a 'mom joke'? at least you didn't work the 'catamite angle' not that you would
Sapiens, My Ass
I'm sorry ... here, please use mine:
Won't be seen by the consumer until YOU raise your prices based on your increasing costs.
From where I sit, I'm not seeing any of it yet, but we haven't eaten out or traveled for over a year plus draw-string pants and sweats are cheap. :-)
.
Food prices
Home prices
Home improvement, remodeling, and maintenance
Autos, RVs, campers, boats, quads, motorcycles
Bicycles, swimming pools, hot tubs, fitness equipment
And just about any other kind of recreational product
Furniture, home goods
Appliances
Electricity rates
Gasoline
Even seeing it in some consumer electronics now
What's not going up?
Apartment rents
Health insurance (finally)
Most services
Same here in N Illinois going right down your list. I just read an article the other day that said building supplies had gone up 100% in the last year. I was talking to my hardwood supply guy about a week ago and he said a year ago he paid $5.50/sheet for 4x8 cdx plywood and sold it for 7.00/sheet. Now it costs him 26.00/sheet and he sells it for 32.00/sheet. It has to be difficult at best to be building homes these days and trying to stay on top of pricing. Lock in and buy everything asap would have to be the norm.
'What's not going up?'
add 'income' for the lower three quartiles
regards,
d
number of areas around the country.
Fortunately, it makes zero sense in the small college town where I live. :)
I work in public transportation and I can't imagine anything more wasteful.
subsidizing oil companies? How about all the wasted time spent in car gridlock, traffic jams? How about the health problems caused by the pollution generated by all those single-occupancy vehicles, creeping along?
The rest of the civilized world has FAR better public transportation. Are you saying we're more dishonest than ALL of them, precluding our ability to create an efficient system?
Don't forget "how about subsidizing wind and solar companies".With regard to: "The rest of the civilized world has FAR better public transportation."
It would be very useful if you could cite a few places where you've witnessed that first hand, and have eliminated the traffic problems which you mentioned.
I've been to several countries and cities where they have extensive public transportation (rail and bus), AND traffic gridlock. London is a mess. Paris is a mess. Nice/Menton is a mess. Florence is a mess. San Francisco is a mess. Chicago is a mess. Even two of my favorite places, Montreux and Sion, are a mess along their main streets.
And they ALL have public transit systems.
Have you ever driven around the Arch de Triomphe in Paris? It's a six "lane" round-about, and you better know how and where to get off, or you'll go around multiple times. How about the 880 along San Francisco Bay? When's the last time you drove over the SF-Oakland Bay Bridge (from Oakland) before 10 AM? It's an hour and a half ordeal - even though there are trains available.
So, tell us where you've been where public transportation was wonderful, and without traffic gridlock.
****
"So it is written, so it shall be."
Edits: 03/26/21
Is it beyond your capacity to understand that without mass transit traffic would be even worse?
Munich has a great subway system. Quiet, clean, fast and you can literally set your watch to train arrivals at stations. They do have traffic congestion in some areas at rush hour, but not bad for a metro population of around 6 million. Beats hell outta most U.S. cities. AFAIK no fairly large city in the world is free from traffic problems. BTW - their streets/highways are in amazingly good shape too and they keep them that way.
What's your idea, forget about improving inadequate, inefficient, filthy, loud mass transit systems desperately in need of repairs and modernization?
"Is it beyond your capacity to understand"
"What's your idea, forget about improving"
Rick, such snipey and sarcastic comments don't do any good in having a conversation among people who disagree.
A forum poster wrote something about spending more money on public transportation as being a solution. I think the word he used was "irrefutable", and "the rest of the civilized world".
I disagreed, and cited examples.
Please, move beyond just throwing turds.
Still waiting for the poster to tell us his experience.
****
"So it is written, so it shall be."
Well, if the horrific waste I'm seeing is the lesser evil I guess that explains what's happening.
Where I work the employees run the show, we set the standards for how much work gets done every day week and month.
We drag our feet as much as possible so there's work to do on overtime most every day for those who want it.
If there is not enough work for everyone who wants overtime the supervisors will sometimes generate work to prevent squabbling.
Rebuildable subassemblies are sometimes discarded in favor of just getting a new one from parts.
Employees high in seniority tend to just watch everyone else work with no consequences.
But the most telling is there's no auditor to report abuse to because we're a County organization not State.
I don't see the sense in thinking because there is waste and corruption we shouldn't have good 21st century mass transit where its basically a necessity. Maybe San Diego doesn't need it but cities like NYC/Boston/Chicago/Philadelphia/Washington, D.C. sure do.
We live in a corrupt society. Your biz is no worse than pharma, lawyers, legislatures, oil companies, building construction, defense industries and/or damn near everything else. Should we just grind to a halt and give up on everything due to waste and corruption?
I know the MTA inspector general in NYC and though she faces daunting problems (to put it mildly), she is REALLY diligent. Sounds like SD could use somebody like her.
I live on the outskirts of the Boston metro area and it seems like Massachusetts is always debating how to spend on transportation infrastructure because there's no simple answers.
The Boston area has a subway, bus system, and ferry service covering the city proper and innermost suburbs. There's also a regional commuter rail network, and some commuter bus services. There's currently a project to extend one of the subway lines. There's another project to add a whole new commuter rail line. Both of these projects are hugely expensive and will only reach a relatively limited number of new riders. So the bang for the buck is low.
A second problem with rail expansion is rights of way. The commuter rail expansion project is only possible because the state retained an existing right of way left over from an old passenger rail service that stopped operating in the late 1950s. But if there's no right of way, you have to tunnel under everything. That is impossibly expensive, as we found out here during Boston's "Big Dig", and NYC is finding out now in its subway expansion.
A third problem is that bringing more train commuters into Boston dumps them onto a subway system that is already operating at maximum capacity.
Buses are a much cheaper and more flexible solution. We've added park-and-ride bus stops at interstate exits, but they are underutilized because the buses just sit in traffic with all the cars. They make people's commutes significantly longer. So it seems to me that you have to create dedicated bus lanes on the highways to bring people into the city rapidly, and then reserve bus lanes in the city to take up the greater demand on urban transport that the subway can't handle. But you cannot get public support for it. People don't like to ride buses and don't like to lose road space to buses.
Of course, all of this assumes that moving a million people from the suburbs into the city and back out again every day is a desirable thing. I don't think it is.
at present with transit are temporary. The necessity of going to a central, urban area for work should be phasing out, except for service workers. Where there is a problem that is not ignorable, however, public T is the only reasonable solution.
How do you figure it's temporary? The pandemic is temporary. The traffic volume on my commute is already back to about 75% and slowly growing.
Social gravity pulls business, entertainment, education, government, et al. together until density reaches a point where it's not economically feasible to concentrate any further. The only way to prevent it is via the heavy hand of government planning, zoning, and building regulation. And governments face all kinds of opposition from developers, businesses, and residents.
I don't see an end to it unless people get on board with mixed use development that includes business. Around here, we're starting to see a wave of mixed use development that combines residences, a supermarket, retail, and restaurants in a walkable layout. That's good, but unless we can reverse the trend of commercial/business development and get it out of the cities into the suburbs, the commuting nightmare will continue.
there's sure a lot of public support for tele-commuting though
nah, too easy
Before the pandemic, there were a lot of people wishing they could be telecommuters that couldn't. Now, I feel like the pendulum is swinging back. A lot of people are realizing that working from home isn't as great as it seemed, and are missing the workplace. It's easy to miss all the social interactions. And work friends. And the "buzz" of activity. Some people struggle to be productive from home. Some start to suffer depression, or weight gain, or alcoholism that they never had before.
I would say that most of my coworkers and friends are eager to spend more time at work. Some are happy to just to keep working from home post-pandemic if they can. But most are not.
That doesn't mean it makes sense to swell the population of a city by 50-100% during workdays. In the years before the pandemic, there was a movement of people and employers towards the cities that was overwhelming public transportation in places like Boston. There was a wave of urban renewal and gentrification associated with young people wanting to stay urban after leaving school and starting their careers. Basically, a new generation of yuppies. That was drawing business expansion out of the suburbs and into the cities.
IMHO, we need to do better at civic planning, focusing on mixed use. Having business and industry cluster in one place, entertainment cluster in another, and residential housing cluster somewhere else is inherently inefficient and drives the need for more and more transportation infrastructure.
'we need to do better at civic planning'
though much needed it's probably too late and will be too slow
there's budget constraints with economic inertia, cultural clash with socioeconomic stratification, along with a lack of shared vision and political will to reverse what has evolved into the status quo ... a host of the same dynamics working against revisions for dealing with climate change ... the least being distrust of and resistance to centralized planning
'we' struggle just to maintain what's already built let alone set a course towards anything new. besides, everyone's hands will be full responding to ongoing and emerging bio threats and climate events that already stretch resources to their limits
I just bummed myself out
with regards,
'The rest of the civilized world' is a helluva lot smaller than the USA o!
the only comparable places being the USSR and Australia and their mass transit systems don't look markedly different except at the urban level
but in truth, all mass transit was 'evolved' rather than 'planned'
So it can take an hour to get to work instead of 15 minutes? No thanks.
And so a huge amount of our taxes can be spent on public transportation?
In some cities it would make sense, I agree. Not here. Too much space to cover.
View YouTube Video
sitting on fields next to airports?
OK, some mysteriously caught on fire, but seems there were millions.
The article seems to have discounted the current "chip" shortage that's driving numerous auto assy plant shutdowns. Supply chains are very strained at the moment. And then there's the blocked Suez Canal. It's interesting that many auto mfgrs are curtailing car production so scarce electronics can be shunted to higher profit truck/SUV production. On top of all this there's the pent up demand thing. Looks like veh purchase prices aren't going down in the near future.
Who knew?
So I cut a deal with the better half to move the living room couch to the 'Cassita' AKA 'horns/tubes/vinyl' man-cave and she gets a new one for the living room.
But it has to be a 'nice' one made in North Carolina and expensive and, and, and.
OK, we've done nothing and spent no real money over the last year, even giving away our stimulus money and STILL have a bank account and I do need furniture in the man-cave, but....
Due to the 'big freeze' in Texas, many of the refineries are shut down. Seems all of these expensive, German made 'valves' froze up and many cracked. They take forever to get proper replacements (and the German factories are slow due to the COVID) so no chemicals means no foam.
And the cushions on couches (even expensive ones made in North Carolina) need FOAM!
20 week lead time for the one we're looking at and others are over half a year.
d
This is how the Roman Empire ended...not with Huns, but with a cracked water main
Edits: 03/25/21
We do excel in the manufacturing of upholstered furniture. I have been involved in the business off and on for years and never give it much thought and then see your post and realize our products are a big deal nationally.
I will take foam over down any day of the week. We have both and down cushions eventually leak and lose their shape. Comfortable as hell though!
...to revisit the "just-in-time" concept of supply chains. As applied today it appears to induce a difficult to manage fragility.
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