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In Reply to: RE: They bombed Darwin 42 times, IIRC. posted by Timbo in Oz on March 12, 2017 at 13:45:30
...Japan had all six carriers at Midway. Probably would've ended up a draw, at BEST. Maybe a lot worse.Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
Edits: 03/12/17Follow Ups:
A big --- and not sexy part --- of winning any war. Japanese had the SW Pacific and Germans had Russia.
Did you read the GREAT US Submariner book by Theodore Roscoe? One of the best books on the strangulation of Japanese supplies by US submariners.
They had just four fleet carriers, because it was only a month or so to repair one and get two sets of air crew. So, Zuikaku and Shokaku were out of service, still.
The IJN's aircrew training program was not up to that kind of speed, nor were it's ship-repair facilities. Aircraft production delays may have been a factor as well
The other two carriers were in the II Carrier Striking Force and were not fleet carriers, the small Hosho and small Zuiho. They did not engage any USN forces during the battle. They were not within range during the crucial day. So, they were never a factor in the battle's outcome.
Another big factor in Coral Sea / Midway was the lack of effective damage control in the IJN's carrier fleet. Victory Disease at its worst.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
nt
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
What-if discussions about real battles don't interest me much, I find it difficult to take them seriously. Unless they are being used to reinforce useful lessons about actual outcomes.
Otherwise, they smack to me of 'de sowf will rahze aginn' syndrome.
Further, it seem silly to consider Midway in isolation from Coral Sea, which took out two IJN fleet carriers, so that the former battle defined the USN's ability to win Midway. And the timing is so close.
Midway wasn't a draw, it was a shattering defeat for the IJN, and the turning point of the Pacific War.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
If the IJN had had at Midway the two carriers taken out of operations at Coral Sea, how might things have turned out? Probably no better than a draw or worse. Sorry, I DO like to play "what if?" scenarios, my apologies to anyone who doesn't care for them. Time for me to be done with this, apparently.
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
It didn't happen and after Coral Sea, it couldn't happen.
Do try to get your head around facing up to reality, it might help, and can't hurt in the long term, just like chicken soup.
Denying reality is not a good path.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
You are being awfully bitter and ad hominem. I am truly, truly done with this now.
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
Big roles in this much discussed battle.
Seven total US Navy AC carriers at end of 1941.By the Battle of Okinawa (1945), US had 11 fleet carriers and 22 escort carriers. Plus, 4 British carriers the attack force. For 37 total AC carriers. Crazy demonstration of industrial might.
Edits: 03/12/17 03/12/17
I figured out recently that my father was on ship in Okinawa. Not fun. A history of his ship mentioned two missed plane dropped torpedoes which were dead on but missed because they went under the ship. Doesn't seem to make sense to me that the Japanese would be that sloppy? Supposedly certain death for anyone below deck. So thank Japanese incompetence for my many valued contributions to AA folks. T456
"The Borg is the ultimate user. They're unlike any threat your Federation has ever faced."
- Q, 2365
The USN Submariners had a notoriously bad time in the first half of WW2 with "duds." These weapons are extremely complicated and malfunctions plagued not only the IJN and USN, but also the Germans, esp during WW1.
During WW2, German U-boaters disabled the tricky magnetic detonators, in favor of contact fuse. And used contact approach solutions to increase explosion rates.
The whole topic is a very interesting one. Well documented in the attached article.
the intransigence of the Navy bureaucracy.
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
Single-handedly made the US Submarine Force into the offensive and reconnaissance force it still is today.
Submariners are what they are today, because of a few good folks during the war.
He was part of the problem for far too long!
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
role and effectiveness. There was a fight to keep the service separate, after WW2. A very interesting part of US Navy history.
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