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as the topic suggests...
everything I've seen suggests 800w per channel or more for pro sound applications... is this really necessary for in home use?
TIA
Follow Ups:
Although I use a Carver TFM-42(375w/c@8 ohms,500w/c@4 ohms),this is totally unnecessary,unless you like to knock things off of shelves in adjacent rooms,and vibrate furniture across the floor!!!I have actually done this on occasion.:-))Under normal conditions,(music and HT)the 4 watt output LED indicators on the amp never even flicker.110+db
Anyone who tells you that you need a big amp for home use have obviously never heard one.
Anyone who was in the lobby at MAF will attest to the output capability of the LABhorn...and I wasn't even close to approaching the full output of the amp before they shut me down...
Guys, Don,
I built a bass horn about the size of the LAB, but using the lesser 10" driver pair from MCM, a design that John Sheerin worked up. The idea was to keep costs down using a $37.60 driver. The drivers are rated just under 90 dB and 175 watts. In the present smallish room it will roll off fairly rapidly below 40Hz, but I use a DT300 plate amp from Adire rated at 300 watts 4 ohm. I have never had it to 9 o'clock on the volume yet because SPL reaches 120 dB at the mouth first. Just hellish loud with very little power. This horn and John's bass horn both work even better on concrete. With heavy low bass material at say 30 Hz, it feels like you are in a airliner with faulty cabin pressure - a physical pressure in both ear canals - so pressurized is the room.Normally a big believer in headroom, I really can't imagine needing more than 100 watts in a horn of this type for residential use. An auditorium may need the big power, but not in my house.
they are 103db/1watt approximately dont forget ;-Dthe question is,
is home use (for you) similar to pro use lol
in a house they are ok in a corner i heard
people EQ them..
the forum is : www.prosoundweb.com there is a link recently when they EQd and tested responses of them.in theory-
103 106 109 112db
1 2 4 8 watts
More than enough power and good sounding too, without breaking the bank.
thanks for your reply. I'm intending to use the LABhorns in home at reasonable listening levels, say 60-80db at 3-5 meters on average. Certainly not 130db at 10 meters which is the kind of output the guys in the pro sound forum are pushing at times! I don't want to have to EQ -24db or more just to get the horns down to a level to match my 92db efficient floorstanders ;-) cheers all,
more info...My room is 35x18, narrowing to 14 foot wide for the last 10 feet, sort of a rectange with a smaller rectangular chunk cut out of one side. Not ideal, but with nice clean corners in a fully concrete wall/floor/ceiling room (14th floor of a condominium - scared neighbours assured!). corner gain will probably be quite significant if i choose to load them that way.
Music choices vary greatly, orchestral, chamber, electronic, vocals... so not much help there. I'll probably try out my AKSA 100 first, then move on to pro amps if needed.
it depends how low you want to go,i think 2 labs have enough mouth for 30hz ... i think...1lab in a corner needs EQ,slightly,apparently..
otherwise your getting a rather efficient 45hz or so/?check out the links at the site i gave u,at the files page.
www.prosoundweb.com/lsp
im not full of answers,just links lol
I'm getting good response down to 30 hz with the LABhorn in a corner closet,with no EQ.1 and 1/2 cabinets would be 30 hz 1/8 space loaded,so 2 cabs stacked in the corner should do VERY well.Would that be 1/16 space,loaded into the floor and ceiling?
I did some writing on this topic (requried power and such) in the following thread. I think some of it may be on the second page.http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=272320
-Mark
too bad i live in new zealand :'(no CNC cutting stuff that i know of, no lab12 woofer(or perhaps with 200$ US shipping lol)
my only choice is shiva or peerless xls 12 :P
il model the peerless 12 in a lab..john sheerin apparently has modeled 10inch XLS in his own 20hzish basshorn,
ive lost the Lab mouth and Throat and Vb values though .
so my 2nd hand reconed 2226h wil do for now :-D
175L 33hz Fb, just gota find a place that cuts wood square ,cos i have no -tools-workshop-space to work on it -
thats also why i cant get a labhorn lol_mike
"too bad i live in new zealand :'(
no CNC cutting stuff that i know of, no lab12 woofer(or perhaps with 200$ US shipping lol)my only choice is shiva or peerless xls 12 :P"
If you have access to Adire, see if you can get the DPL-12, as it is very close in parameters to the LAB 12. Dan Wiggins is in the process of finishing two LAB subwoofers loaded with DPL-12s for his church where he is corner loading them, stacked one atop the other, with a limited height at this point in the room. At some point he is supposed to take some measurements of them.
no CNC cutting stuff that i know of, no lab12 woofer(or perhaps with 200$ US shipping lol)You don't need CNC, just take your time and be careful with the layout. My 4 drivers cost $US800 including surface insured shipping, and took 8 weeks or so.
The whole idea of having more power is achieving those lower
octaves with the least amount of distortion. Now, since you
are using a horn like the Lab Horn,you will achieve those low
notes. However, those lower octaves require alot of power.You said 60 - 80 dB at 3 - 5 meters away. Well, you should
still feeding it (The horn) around 800 watts or more each
speaker to achieve a better sound with less distortion.The good news is that there are TONS of commercial amps on
ebay floating around in which will do the job, without
breaking the bank.Remember, you are better of with a Pro amp, than a Audiophile
amp, for you want brute strength and, current, and not something
that's going to give you transparent highs.I use an old Crest 5000 I picked up on Ebay, early this year
that puts out 2000 watts in which I use the power 4 Double Fifteens.And, looking at the meters, its the 30's, and, 20's which pulls
the most power, not, 100 - 40Hz.Hope This Was Helpful.
See my above posts for some info based on actual experience....
My answer was more of a Reality Check Answer.If you are familiar with low frequencies, you know that
it requires a sizeable amount of power.Its better to have headroom than, none whatsoever.
Especially, when you are going down to those lower octaves.
He wants 60 - 80dB on 5 - 10 meters away on average. So, what
is he going to do when he wants to crank it up?Also, he never discussed the type of music involved.
This is why I recomended feeding each driver 800 or more watts
for that extra headroom.I see your using less than 250 a driver. I say less due to
each driver is 6 ohms, not 8 ohms. so your Carver is running
a heavier load than it is made for. (That particular model is
4 ohms minimum stereo)Considering the minimum Thermal requirement for each driver is
300 watts, you are underpowering them. Which is fine for you,
for you already stated, you are no where near clip. However,
unless you need 60 - 80 dB, 5 - 10 meters away, you can't just
say the 375 watts is more than enough for his application.Again, you can't go wrong with more power. Headroom is the key
to a better sounding system.
Best Regards,
The Carver is 375 watts PER CHANNEL into 8 ohms,500 watts PER CHANNEL into 4 ohms.One channel for each driver,mono signal.Over 400 watts to each driver.(Measured with a scope at clip point) At this level,video tapes were falling off my TV,an end table vibrated across the floor,and things were falling off of shelves in other rooms.Driving the LABhorn with the headphone output of a Sony Discman,I was reading 90 db at the mouth of the horn,playing "Sharp Dressed Man" by ZZ Top.
True,his room is somewhat larger than mine,but he'll have no trouble getting 60-80 db(or even 100-110 with a small amp.Considering he's in a condo,unless he invites all the neighbors over for a party,he'll be visited by the police long before approaching the limit of even a small amp.
800 watts per driver? That's not "Headroom",thats "Time for a new room!"
AHHH!!! I love the sound of cracking concrete in the morning!!!
"800 watts per driver? That's not "Headroom",thats "Time for a new room!"Only if you use the full 1600 watts. :^)
I listen to more heavy bass orriented music (Strong 40 - 20Hz)
so, that headroom would be better suited for me.
"AHHH!!! I love the sound of cracking concrete in the morning!!!"I already had to plaster my ceiling due to the bass. I may not
have a Lab Horn, but, stacking 4 Double fifteens in a corner
using a DBX 120, and a Crest 2000 watt amp,I'm pretty sure I'm
getting the same sub low frquency as one Lab Horn :^)
Best Regards,
Elliot
Hi DonYour spot on Don (IMO), there is no need for "real big Watts" in the home with one of these, they just don't have a good grasp of what the LAB sub is/does relative to what there used to.
You on the other hand can make your room move with ease now so more power is, well more than enough?
I don’t know, as a male, there seems like something wrong with the concept of “more than enough power”.
I do know that the Pro sound guys use amplifiers in the 1000-3000 Watt per box range and so far as I know, no one has blown a driver (yet). But in the home, YIKES!!!.
To be honest, I was kind of surprised when I started to hear about people putting LAB’s in the home, I remember yours was one of the first I heard about..
After trying this style horn in my home system, I can see what the attraction is as it still sounds (is) totally effortless at levels that make one flinch using a very modest amount of power..
Cheers,
Tom.You are the designer of the Lab Horn (Among other fine Horns)
If you feel that low power will get the job done, that's
fine by me. :^)
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