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In Reply to: RE: -3db @18 Hz?. Doesn't horn physics get in the way here? NT posted by Coner on November 27, 2021 at 12:03:14
You have to hear/feel it to believe it. The new Jubilee is state of the art in horn design....
High sensitivity, wide dynamic range, low distortion, and smooth frequency response. Pwk
http://www.itishifi.com
Follow Ups:
As we like to say in Brooklyn, The designers of this horn speaker had to pull a "Fugazi" (look it up) to even come close to 18 hz. !!!!!! At a cost of $35k+,for a 2 way system ?? I guess if you have the space,cash,like the looks, go for it. I sure hope it sound good---for the price.
Joe
Joe,
After having met Roy Delgado of Klipsh 15 years ago and spending time in Hope with him and others experiencing the Klilpsch Pro stuff, I sold my Khorns and got MWMs with the K402 horn. Later I got a clone of the Underground Jubilee because the factory unit only came in black. Mine was in beautiful Tigerwood.
I still have the K402 horns (my 3rd pair). Coupled with a custom phase plug and the Axi 2050 Driver from Celestion, the horn plays from 250 to 20 khz. Also Roy developed a shallower horn subwoofer for theater. He uses the same technology in the new Jubilee to get from 18-300 Hz. using Twin 12" drivers in a Ported box Inside the Horn.
The secret is having a custom Digital Crossover with PEQ and Time Delays to make the whole thing flat and Phase Coherent. Considering the bandwidth, and since Amplifiers with lotsa watts are cheap, this is how he can perform to this level. I had Jubilees for a year and they got down to 30 Hz. with very little PEQ. Now that the back chamber for the ports is huge, I'm not surprise he can get theater subwoofer performance out of that horn, but it is a HYBRID design to keep the Cubic Feet reasonable.
When people say horn to me, I assume it is an actual horn, that is guided by physics and physical parameters. If it was said up front that this speaker is a hybrid design, I would not have questioned the low end specs. Those speakers are large enough to slip in a pair of small SVS subwoofers for all I know. I have absolutely nothing against innovative speaker designs, just be honest with a product you intend to sell to the public.
Joe
What's the difference what it is as long as it meets the spec. and it sounds good? I prefer "actual horns" too (Danley, Edgar, Klipsch, etc.) but there's other hybrid technologies that perform well. I believe in using all the methods available to get there, regardless of nomenclature on combinational elements to make the synergy happen!
No one is "lying" from the Klipsch Camp. It's a speaker cabinet that looks a certain way and occupies X amount of cubic feet of space in a room.When fed music signal, the sound it produces at a specific bandwidth at X amount of distortion/clarity, period.
Now for those who want to get technical as to "how it's achieved," if it's that important:
Then one could say it's about a 5 1/2 foot folded front horn bass unit with a built in subwoofer that uses the back wave of the double 12" cones in a resonant cavity which is fed into the volume of air and operates at frequencies below the natural horn's low cutoff. The upper range above 300 hz. or so is fed to the world's most advanced, single diaphragm compression driver into a Hybrid Formula, straight axis mid/treble horn that contains a custom phase plug. The speaker makes use of an AD/DA converter that modifies the resultant waveforms to compensate for the acoustic behavior of the driver and the room, yielding a low distortion response with an 18 hz to 20 Khz. bandwidth.
So if it's 2 Front Loaded Horns from 50-20,000 Hz. with a bass reflex box with many ports to function as a built-in generator at Sub Woofer frequencies of only 1.5 octaves vs. the other 8.5 from the horn portions, with PEQ's to flatten it all, where is the "LIE" from a marketing perspective exactly????
So does the implication mean that the only way to NOT lie is to have MONO Full Horn Subwoofer the size of a Refrigerator (that also uses a 6 db boost below the horn's cutoff because the horn is too short as a subwoofer and never reaches 20 Hz.) between 6 straight axis horns the only way to do this, a la Bruce Edgar????
Where do we draw the line in the Semantics vs. Physics game, I wonder???
Edits: 01/09/22 01/09/22
DSP isn't exactly a secret, it's been SOP in pro-sound since the EAW KF850. The physics dictate that at 18Hz, and likely to 30Hz, this box is operating as a bass reflex, with sensitivity well below what it is above that where it is horn loaded. DSP can account for that, but at the cost of driver excursion and amplifier power. You're not going to get all the way down with an SET.
Yes. Physics is physics. Nothing new except Roy basically put a Klipsch Cornwall box inside of a horn, whose ports are feeding a VERY tight corner in the same space we call a Horn.
The low end extension is only a small part of the story of this speaker. You will have to hear it to understand. You are either a heard or not. When it is out in the wild just listen to it.
BTW I saw Fugazi live in the late 80's many times.
High sensitivity, wide dynamic range, low distortion, and smooth frequency response. Pwk
http://www.itishifi.com
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