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Was just wondering what horn driver could be successfully used? Thanks for any input, Bobby
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Hello,
a few Khorn users, like my satellit horns, crossover 150 Hz.
hm-moreart DIY horn speaker
http://www.hm-moreart.de/1.htm
I put an Oris 150 horn w/AER driver on top of the bass bin and used an active xover to bring the cut-off down to 160Hz. I really like bass horns but wanted to cut off the Khorn below 200Hz as it begins to distort above that. I tried a few horns on top and the Oris/AER was the best option I could come up with but that was 10 years ago so I'm sure there's something better (cheaper?) out there now. I did try the Orphean horn/compression driver setup which sounded very nice but the frequency range was more restricted than I wanted.
I'm in Towson (MD) and you're welcome to come by for a listen some time. -Bryan
Nice.
How do the added wings work out for you in place of pure corner loading. We were going to try to show the K-horns at the CAF in a few weeks but the lack of clean corners in a hotel room made us switch to a pair of 15's in an open baffle. We had thought of building "fake" corners but felt it was too risky for a show.
dave
The wings were a necessity because I only have one good corner and I needed a top plate to place the Oris horn and amp on. I also added a bottom plate so the bass bin is enclosed. They gave plenty of placement options and allowed me to set them up for the best image in my room. One speak sits about 6" off-axis in a corner and I moved the other one around to suit. They do a nice job of tightening and focusing the bottom end and I wouldn't hesitate to suggest them.
They are fairly easy to build - I blocked them against the back plate and anchored them using the existing wing nuts so everything is reversible. I would imagine you could hinge them for easier transport but they are quite heavy. I used 4' x 4' panels of hardwood ply and MDF with a sheet of absorption material sandwiched between but folks have plenty of good suggestions over at the Klipsch forum - just search for 'false corners'.
Do you use a high pass crossover on the Oris Horn or just let it roll-off naturally?
I originally used Bert's (BD Design) xover design but I soon wanted more power for the bass bins so I added 2 amps and switched to an active xover. I tried a few digital and pro sound models but finally settled on a Marchand XM26 crossed at 160Hz. It doesn't allow for time alignment like some others I tried but its silent and doesn't add anything to the signal that I can hear.
I'm on the eastern shore btw.... Thanks, Bobby
Send me a pm Bobby and we'll touch base. I work out of the house so my schedule is very flexible. -Bryan
If you have the corners, a pair of 160hz LeCleac'h horns biamped with a line level crossover does a wonderful job. In the two systems above they chose the doorknob diffuser which stops response at say 13Khz and they add a supertweeter with a series cap. If you went with a bullet phase plug, you would still be a 4-way design, but the three crossover points in the lowther would be mechanical.
I believe both systems crossed over in the realm of 250hz.
dave
Why would you want to do that. Because "conventional wisdom" says two ways are better because they don't have the extra crossover components and driver?
If I had no other speakers than my Altec Model 19's I'd probably be 100% happy with them but because I have others to compare to I see the 19's as a very good two way as is but still a compromise because of the HF rolloff.
With 3-4 db of treble boost they sound much better. If you like the higher frequencies to be more solid so you know there are bells in the grooves, the alleged evils of 3 ways aren't important if your enjoying the music more and a real tweeter could mean less treble boost.
As with everything else, execution and quality counts.
Edits: 06/27/12
Just wondering if anyone has done it with much sucess. Its just for fun, not a big deal.....
Yes, I did it with a JBL 2360 A horns with 2446J drivers. You have to use "shelving" EQ on the JBL, like all CD horns to get the high end over 4 K right, then EQ up the Khorn to 500 Hz. bit it works and sounds great. Used a Behringer 2496 digital Xover and a couple of chip amps....milliwatts.
Edits: 06/27/12
For reasons already mentoned PWK himself had no luck making the Khorn a satisfactory 2-way which is why late in life he developed the Jubilee which had better high frequency response from the bass horn and allowed a higher crossover and thus a good (to his thinking) 2-way.
This is true Tom, but the co-patent holder of the Jubilee, Roy Delgado, told me a Khorn will EQ UP just fine to 500 Hz. with a modern digital Xover. This is also how he has set up all the current Jubilee owners with 2-Way, except the Jube has a different EQ than the Khorn, but both bass horn can be made to work with a big CD horn on top, no problem.In fact, I think the best thing to happen to ALL horns, which are seldom flat, is Active EQ with Linkwitz-Riley slopes.
In fact, a Behringer 2496 and a couple of small watt amplifiers is way better AND cheaper than trying to do it with $2,000 worth of passive parts and a crossover base that won't fit in the trunk of a car.
In my situation, I chose a hybrid approach and a subwoofer since I prefer zero to as few folds as possible in a bass horn. So I use a Klipschorn K-33 woofer in Peavey FH-1 bins (cheaper and better built than LaScala bass bin), PEQ it smooth from 70-300 Hz. Rather than try to EQ a Khorn on the bottom, I built a Tapped Horn with a LAB-12 driver that is 6 db down at 16 Hz.and flat to 70Hz. The top end is a K-402 with Klipsch K1133 driver fed by it's own amp, with no EQ mated to a DE-250 driver with QSC horn (look like a mini K402) both with only one capacitor in the passive Xover. Any EQ that happens to the entire system/room comes from Audyssey on my Receiver, which is the best thing since sliced bread.
I could easily make this a 2-way with a Klipsch 1132 driver or JBL 2446 or EV DH1a, or Faital Pro, or many 2" throat drivers up to the task. I would then need some PEQ at the top end instead of a tweeter, which I chose for better dispersion than what used to come out of my JBL 2360a's (Elephant Cheeks)although the dispersion of those horns was still full width at 8 Khz.....amazing
Edits: 06/27/12 06/27/12
NT Or use a coaxial like BMS or JBL. Then its a 3 way.
The Klipsch bass section will struggle to go much higher than about 450Hz. If you now want a HF horn to go that low and also get up to 16kHz is tricky. The Altec horns mentioned are not good choices to cover that bandwidth. You will probably need a 2 inch throated horn/driver (to go that low).
Candidate horns (with appropriate drivers) include the Pro Sound horns from Klipsch. The K-510 horn (about 12inch wide) or the K-402 horn (about 39 inches wide)
An alternative could be the Electrovoice HP640 horn (about 28 in wide) or the HP940.
Keep in mind, shooting for a two-way is a series of compromises. It is hard to get good sound over that bandwidth. The crossover choices become limited also.
I'm not sure why anyone would do this when there are great two-way horn speakers, designed as such, out there (Altec, in particular, made several, 19s, 14s, 15s, etc.) and horn buffs who want 3-ways buy Klipsch because they are 3-way, but one tweak you might try that doesn't cost a whole lot is to buy some Altec horns for the K55. I tried this when I had K-horns and preferred the sound to the Klipsch mid-horn.
I think Al Klappenberger's Web site, (Google ALK Engineering) has some info you might well consult.
Cheers,
George
JBL 2435 etc, maybe the coaxial ones too?
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