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Had some surgery so now have some time off. So I knocked this out to use while I heel. Kind of big but works well together. Its a 5 way front horn system.
Follow Ups:
Hope you are recovering fast.
Is it possible to have, instead of 3 horns, to have one single satisfying horn even if some compromises in extremes of frequencies have to be made. I mean like the full range horns we make with the Fostex. I like to have just one horn. I know it wont be as good as the three but something that can be lived with?
All the best.
Bill
I have built purchase owned designed many full range driver BLH and front loaded horns. Most if one looks closely the cabinets are not truly horns but lets forget that for now. I have found a few fullrange transducer that can if used in proper cabinet design provide for a enjoyable experience. But even the best for my personal use I end up running tweeters and bass systems so still basically end up with 3 ways like in picture that is a SEAS X-1 used as wide band midrange. But I'm jaded. If your really thinking of just 1 driver. I say would suggest fostex f200a or SEAS X-1. Both can be enjoyable on there own and do not require a horn cabinet. If thinking of horn loading Fostex fe206en fe166en sound very good used in the suggested Nagaoka cabinets designed for them. If your thinking of more costly full-ranges I would suggest multiway horns. If just looking for a fun enjoyable horn hybrid. I suggest Altec model 14 15 19 A5 A7, Or 604 drivers in proper cabinets.
Edits: 03/07/12 03/07/12
for that deatailed reply.
A very kind fellow inmate, thetubeguy1954, gifted to me a Fostex 206E. I wanted to make a Sachiko enclosure for it but found it was not feasible in my room. I settled on a Madisound horn design modified by me. Daringly made it triangular in plan, 3 feet tall and 2 feet deep. The bass is not the greatest but I dont mind it or perhaps at my age I dont hear it. But the female vocals are outstanding. This is great because i listen to female singers 95% of the time. I dont like male singers like I dont like male dancers.
All the best
Bill
"Is it possible to have, instead of 3 horns, to have one single satisfying horn even if some compromises in extremes of frequencies have to be made. I mean like the full range horns we make with the Fostex. I like to have just one horn. I know it wont be as good as the three but something that can be lived with?"
I'm not even sure what that means, Bill The K. Are you saying that you'd like one single horn do a "decent" job, even if it's not truly high fidelity? Post again when you're sober.
Very nice Kloss I hope your not suffering too much. Take it easy and don't damage yourself lifting that rig before you heal.Specially if they got you on the opiates and your not thinking to clearly. Its amassing how popular conical horns are getting. I guess there limited loading is a great asset when trying to avoid complex crossovers. Finally the idea of one big bass horn and coax sounds so zen and a great entry to a horn system.
Jon doesn't the bass horn interfere with the horn directly above it? It looks like it would with the way it blocks the bottom portion ---{ I circled in red }--- of the midrange horn's expansion that directly above it or is this a non-issue when listening? Just a question, not a criticism.
I'm not listening to anything...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata )
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
=================================================================================
"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted."
- William Shakespeare from The Merchant of Venice; Act V,i
midbass runs from 100hz-350hz so not a issue at all.
Wish I have the ability to build a fine looking horn system like that!
regards
Very cool!
I have this odd dream of using natural horn response as part of an acoustical crossover.
dave
How does it sound compared to Advantgarde, etc.?
I would say benefits are less room interaction. More of a near-field type of sound even at distance. A bit less combo filtering do to controlled radiation. You know ;)
comb filtering.
The idea of combo filtering is intriguing, though. When I go to rock clubs and have to suffer through some ludicrous opening act trying to make their way in the music business "combo filtering" would be very useful.
nt
"A bit less combo filtering"
Not sure what you mean by that. Could you elaborate, please?
The large bell and controlled radiation patterns mean little direct sound leaks from adjacent channel thus less combo filtering and tighter image.
Thanks for the reply.
"adjacent channel thus less combo filtering"
But I still don't know what you mean by "combo filtering". I have no idea what that is. If you'd describe it, that would be great.
When music arrives from two sources i.e. two horns there is some overlap between the frequencies covered each horn . Because of the differences in distance that each horn is from your ear , there is some cancellation when the two soundwaves arrive out of phase and some reinforcement when they arrive in phase . This leads to dips and peaks in the response called comb filtering .
I understand combing with regard to multiple drivers.
I'm asking what "combo filtering" is.
nt
Jon I cannot express how much I envy you at this moment. They are absolutely gorgeous and you're using Fostex t500amk2 tweeters on top???!!!!!! How much of an improvement are the t500amk2 over the T900a?
As far as the entire speakers are concerned how do they sound? How tall and deep are they? When can I borrow them? < < < <{ just thought I'd try to slip that last one in while you're still on pain pills and recovering }
I'm listening to:
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata )
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
=================================================================================
"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted."
- William Shakespeare from The Merchant of Venice; Act V,i
Over 9ft tall 8ft deep very large sound stage but I do have it integrating to the point that the image isn't over sized. Does sound real good through out my home I can enjoy them in most any room. SPL stays near the same. Kind of a cool thing about large horns is once on its not that much louder near horn as it is 15 -20 ft away. I do at times use just the big conical it has a coaxial and I can use it as a bass horn or as its own loudspeaker.
Edits: 03/01/12
I've used many t500amks and t900as. The ones I sold you I used in my office system. I have 3 pair amk2 about spoiled I know..The 500amk2 is just over all better sounding than t900a but is 110db over 106 db and if you only need 106db then t900a is the best choice.
Jon those T900a at 106dB are more than enough for me and I cannot thank you enough for selling me the pair that you did!
However, you still haven't told me when I can borrow these new horn speakers! I promise to give them back when I'm done...
I'm not listening to anything...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata )
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
=================================================================================
"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted."
- William Shakespeare from The Merchant of Venice; Act V,i
I would love to have a listen of this!!
I would say it's almost GINOURMOUS!!! hahaha!!
great work!! and yes, more info please!!
What can you tell us about them? What type of crossover are you using? Drivers and freq range you are using for each? How about a pic from the side?
Thanks!
Steve
Remember, it's all about the music.
Passive networks with transformer adjustment on conical horns.Active on sub bass horn. The bass horns use a beyma coaxial I some times just run it as its own speaker. Or just use its woofer with the mid-bass conical, uses a 12in or 15in EV or Eminence I like to mess about a bit, the mid-range ev dh1a or JBL 2440 2445 or 2556, the tweetersFostex t500amk2, the Sub bass horn uses 4 15in Lab. And is powered by 500 watt ice-power. Rest I run off my VIVA 300B. Please excuse any errors I'm just out of surgery feel a bit off.
However they sound, I congratulate you on realizing the project! They look wonderful!
If I had the construction skills, the time, the workspace... in another lifetime.
One comment: You've clearly got diffraction and shadowing going on. You might consider downsizing the stack and improving the source quality by putting one horn inside another where applicable. For example, put the upper mid horn inside the bass horn, and put the tweeter inside the mid horn. Properly done, this will make a beneficial difference.
Carry on!!
Its a temporary system. And none of the horns could be mounted coaxial as you mention. If you reread post you will see where I mention I also use the large horn with coaxial from time to time. Also you can not time align the wave launch if horns are just inserted. The conicals have narrow radiation so its not a big issue with diffraction or shadowing etc. And the stack is angled so midrange tweeter are pointed more at listener.Keep in mind the narrow range ea horn uses the midbass is only running from 100hz-350hz it cares not that the larger horn is slightly blocking.
I re-read your post about sometimes using a coax driver. Yes, mounting the upper mid horn inside the bass horn would be a problem in that case.
Regarding time alignment, you could use a digital delay to achieve it. But, that's another component in the chain, and would require multiple amps. Still, it's something to consider on down the road.
btw, did I ask where you are in Wisconsin? If not, where are you in Wisconsin?
:)
Is it the right tool to use ?
Is it going to degrade the sound quality of the system ?
Edits: 03/06/12
Wow!! Looks like some giant prehistoric plant blooming.
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