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I am looking to find some links to EV app notes on triple stacking the HR9040 horns. Any info or links to info or to images would be most helpful. I know some here run these "Great White Whales". Thanks for your help. Best regards Moray James.
moray james
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by a considerable amount. Horizontal dispersion would remain the sameunless they were splayed.
I know that in the EV stacked set up the central horn runs full range and the two vertically flanking horns are allowed to roll off naturally in the mid range. From what I understand the vertical dispersion is maintained and horizontal would be unchanged. I would like to read the EV app notes to learn more about the idea and what happens to polar pattern control. Best regards Moray James.
moray james
Completely apples and oranges given the size and pattern control of the HR9040 but you might find the link interesting.
dwk:rhank you for the JBL link that one has popped up a few times. it would seem to suggest contrary findings to those of the EV bulletin. While the work is decades old that does not mean it is not still sound though seeing the JBL bulletin which came out after the EV one is not a very positive I must admit. Given that it may well have been D.B. Keele came up with the triple stacking arrangement I am hot willing to write it off just yet.
I am unclear as to why you would suggest that the size of the horn used would impact the method. I would think that it it does in fact work fairly well (and it must or EV would have never recommended it) it should work on any size horn in triples.
moray james
"it would seem to suggest contrary findings to those of the EV bulletin."Why would you think that?
It is not even on the same subject.
The JBL note shows three stacked horns with no aiming, and running full-range signal through them all.
Please explain how that would be relevant to three stacked with the top horn aimed down, the bottom horn aimed up, and only the central horn with HF EQ?
Can't you figure out that the JBL three-stack at 1Khz looks like the single horn at 8Khz?
Can't you figure out that the JBL three-stack at 2Khz is starting to narrow and show secondary lobes because the horns are without tilt?
Can't you figure out that the JBL three-stack at 4Khz looks like it is excessively narrowing and showing strong comb-filtering in the vertical plane?
Can't you figure out that an EV style three-stack that rolled-off the outer horns wouldn't be narrowing excessively or have the lobes, but would in fact look like the single horn pattern at HF (because only the single central horn is running)?
Edits: 02/20/12
Dennis: there are plenty of things that I can't figure out and that's why we have questions. So is this a bad day sort of response? I have no idea of how to respond to this post. I do appreciate your assistance. Time out. Best regards Moray James.
moray james
""it would seem to suggest contrary findings to those of the EV bulletin."
Do you understand any better now?
djk, would you have the EV material mentioned in this thread?
I'd be intersted as i run a stack of three per side.
rgds,
Ralph
What I can't figure out is why this discussion is about JBL horns, when the question was about E-V horns.
;)
It's all my fault ;^)
Since I did not know what the objective was when stacking 3 HR9040's, I provided the JBL reference.
The JBL reference shows how a particular set of challenges can be overcome by stacking their flat front bi-radial horns, and the new issues that arise when stacked.
Given the opportunity, the need, and the space, I would choose a horn such as the HR9040 to eliminate the reason for stacking. Or, choosing from the EV lineup, select an HR9040 rather than an HR90.
Sorry - glitch caused a premature post.
I believe that stacking HR9040s (in a vertical array, firing directly forward, with identical signals) would create the same behavior JBL describes. There are ways of addressing these issues, which DJK has noted. He is far more knowledgeable on than I am.
For a domestic environment, it remains unclear to me what "problem" one would attempt to address by using 3 HR9040s per side. Vertical control? Unlikely. Power handling? Unlikely.
Dan
The problem to be adressed is vertical coverage angle and fixed by EV with the (inferior sounding) HPx040 series. The vertical dispersion starts to deviate from the nominal 40 deg below 2500 Hz due to insufficient vertical mouth size. There are three physical layouts possible a) all parallel firing, b) verical toe-in, c) vertical splay, of which a) and b) were treated here.
What are you trying to achieve?
the idea is to stack three JBL clones which are 5 x 15 and inexpensive. I am interested to learn about the development which went into the idea originally. I would imagine that there will be other benefits beyond the greatly increased diaphragm area. I am curious to know what happens to polar pattern control with triple stacked horns, it must improve greatly over a single horn. Has anybody with a great white whale compared or listened to say a K402 Klipsch or other large horn? Best regards Moray James.
moray james
Edits: 02/19/12
holy shit!!! you must be nucking futz
I have found some info. given the going prices of the great white whales used more members should be making the jump to save the whales and their ears. I have not heard one but I bet they are great for sure. They do have very nice polar patterns and control down very low. would like to hear them next to a Klipsch K402 which is even larger. Best regards Moray James.
moray james
Yeah six white whales in one living room does seem to be a bit extreme I guess. I am interested in the technique, anybody got any info on this? Thanks and best regards Moray James.
moray james
IMO 3 per side is an excersize in futility. One per side with the rest of the system matching it's capabilities, and what will have is: a world class system. Sell the other 4 units and let someone else achieve this standard of excellence.
I've had mine for about two months now, and I'll NEVER use a cone midrange again. Just for the record, I use the EV DH1506 drivers.
Curious to know what other large horns you may have listened to? Any chance you have auditioned the Klipsch K402? The K402 is about the same width but is roughly ten inches higher than the HR9040. Best regards Moray James.
moray james
"Any chance you have auditioned the Klipsch K402? "
I would say YES to that only IF that is the horn on the top of the Jubilee? It's been quite a while since I listened to the (domestic version) Jubilee, but I remember the mids were fine, the ultra highs chopped off, and the bass sounded just like a folded bass horn sounds.
Other big horns i have listened to:
1) The Sierra/Brooks (huge) tractrix 140's loaded with EV DH1a's, which sound wonderful, save for the extreme highs (above 15k rolls off)
2) The ORIS 150's loaded with Lowther DX-3's which i thought was the most amazing sound from 220 hertz ALL the way up.
I do believe that ROUND tractrix horns are better suited for operation from where ever they are crossed to "all the way up"
vs. 90x40 horns which are better suited for multi-way operation which is how it is in my situation. i.e. I use a tweeter
If you search this: Electrovoice HR9040 horn/DH1012 Score!!!
you might, just might find a willing seller, he claims to have 3 pairs
of the HR9040's
best regards, Scott L
Also 4 EV or community horns not sure, for 2in comps these are large good too 300hz or so non CD. I would sell cheap or trade etc. Maybe give away if I like the cut of your jib and I need to do no packing lifting hand holding ;) etc.
You have a PM on the way. Best regards Moray James.
moray james
Scott: yse the K402 is the horn that you heard on top of the Jub. it is a little bit wider than a HR9040 and about ten inches taller than a HR9040 and you likely hear it with a K69 Klipsch driver(the stock driver). Thanks for your comments on the other large horns that you have heard and for the lead to a possible pair of HR9040 horns. I am interested in these large horns but not convinced I have the space or the money to fly a pair. I was interested to learn how EV had set up the stacked three horn arrangement. I had considered using such a set up with three 5 x 15 inch JBL clones which are inexpensive. The combined horn size of 15 x15 is reasonable and should have good pattern control far lower than a single horn would achieve. I have also considered going with a Lambda Unity Horn with a mouth of about 16 inches square. Thanks again for your help and especially your comments and suggestions. Best regards Moray James.
moray james
I would love to hear just one pair of HR9040 but three pair would be a giggle for sure. I am interested in the triple stacked configuration which EV (Keele?) came up with and DJK tells me there are EV app notes available but I have not been able to find them. I am considering the triple stacked arrangement with a much smaller horn. Any direction or even picture links would be useful. Thanks. Best regards Moray James.
moray james
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