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how did Labhorn vs Lab12-TH do with various music? Did the small footprint sub fare well with everything? what music was tried?, what xover, amps and speakers ran with the subs? what's the lowest ceiling that TH wil arc up to?
Follow Ups:
I was going to start a separate thread,but since it is being discussed here,I might as well put the info here.I built the tapped horn last weekend,based on the plans for the 30 hz horn William Cowan has on his website,but extended it to 90",and used the LAB12 genII driver,as a start,to see what these things will do. I was not expecting it to work anywhere near as well as it does on the first try.
For shear output,the LAB is the winner,(I'm talking about stupid loud,knocking things off of shelves,pissing off the neighbors,and getting a visit from the police)but for any normal use,that is really not a factor.
The tapped horn wins hands down for low freq extension,plus it is much easier to build,and can be used standing in a corner,laying down along a wall,or mounted under the floor,through a wall,or in a ceiling.
The subs are crossed over at 90 hz,LFE output from the Yamaha DSP-A1 HT amp,and powered by a Carver TFM-42 amp,one channel for each sub,with level adjusted for the difference in efficiency.
Except for music with really deep bass content,the difference in sound is pretty small,with the LABhorns being slightly tighter.
I'm not ready to haul the LABs out to the curb just yet,but for anyone who doesn't have room for the LABs,the decision would be a no brainer...
in aural presentation vs LAB?what's happening on excursion and how did you brace the divider?
does it tie with gussets to front and rear wall? - is there much flex or cabinet reaction on strong passages? does it sounds "taut"? (- realize you may still be tweaking xover & level)
I glued 1" dowels between the center baffle and the front and rear panels,about 12" apart.Seems ok,but would be better to have more.Since this was an experiment,one side panel was left unglued,just screwed with a gasket of duct tape,so it could be easily taken apart.It takes most of 2 sheets of ply/MDF to make 1 cabinet,with enough left to use for bracing.I will probably add more bracing eventually.
As it is,there is some vibration of the panels,(no audible)but with it in the garage,there is far more vibration of the garage wall than the box,so it is not a real concern at this time.
Cone excursion is surprising low,a bit difficult to see with the magnet facing out,and the opening down in the corner.I will try to come up with a more accurate method than sticking my finger against the cone,and use sine waves for a better point of reference.
wouldn't test excursion with sine - too chancey - I smoked a pretty big voice-coil accidently with 90 watt rated amp when a transform was left onhow does one kluge-simulate TH with McBean?
here's a quick and maybe not well-described sim of yours just from rear-load perspective - indicates some power dip around 32 which may not be in effect with TH - might be kinda ballpark--?
quick BLH sim
power dip
Don,It appears that your driver is facing the inside of the horn but Bob C's is in the other direction. Is there a reason for this? Have you taken any measurements?
Thanks,
Don
On the Cowan Main Page select "Tapped Horns".
The LAB12 driver is 6 3/4" deep,plus it needs some clearance for the vent,so it won't fit the other way.:-( I would have mounted it facing forward if it did,but don't think it really makes any difference performance wise.In room response measurements are always suspect because of standing waves,but is reasonably flat to 25 hz,and down a few db at 20.
those look like a very easy weekend project. Looks like three or four sheet of 3/4 MDF and a couple drivers and away you go. Cheers.
Fred & AllYou would think with detailed maps, BIG instructions and GPS too, I would'nt a gotten lost, but no.... If you go to Don's, follow his instructions only, don't improvise. Mats beat me there, and we started with a tour of Don's shop and his heroic lathe rig where he turns his MDF mid and mid-bass horns, these have been pictured here on Hi-E. On to the sound, which was very good, one of the best DIY horn rigs I have heard. Don had switches rigged up so we could switch between the Lab-horn and the Taped-horn, or both off too. We played Tom Danley's Fireworks CD, and only realized that the subs were off several minutes into it. The subs put a very solid bottom on it. Both Mats and I remarked on the utterly effortless quality of the deep bass compared to direct radiator subs. Don played a bit of the War of the Worlds DVD with his projection TV going, and some of the car crashes literaly shook the house! It's a close call between the two subs, Mats thought the Lab-horn sounded a bit fuller, and I agreed, but it was hard for me to tell which one was playing unless you A/B'd the exact same section of music. The Cream Re-union DVD had a very vivid you-are-the-audience sound, and looked great too. We played the Shefield Drum CD which sounded kinda ping-pongy stereo as usual (IMHO), and we followed it with the Clark drum solo CD from the Freddyi list, which sounded much better. This was about as close as you can come to having an actual kit in your house, you could really feel the thwack of the kick drum. Following to the F. list, we also listened to Ukulele Ike over lunch. Did'nt get to Roy Smeck or Whispering Jack though. I ran the rig through my ususal suspects too. The ACEH organ sounded great, the 64 ft. Diaphone demo has a ghostly shudder. The robot whuped some butt from The Day the Earth Stood Still, and Jean Guillou did his moody stuff on the organ pedals in Pics at an Ex. I tried the Black Rebel Motorcycle Club's 'Shuffle Your Feet". and this sounded very good too. Don's rig likes everything! Everything we played sounded great. The amp was a Yamaha S.S., which proves that transistor stuff can sound good through horns (Tom Brennen has been championing this). For anyone considering a horn sub though, you'd better own a house. They literaly shake the building, I'm not exaggerating! Thanks Don, great sound!
Don opened up with Tom Danley's Fireworks and War of the Worlds, bad guys come out of the ground, and soft liberals like myself jump under couch pretty much. Then a trip to Albert Hall for the Cream reunion. Very loud and clear, like being at the show, no strain. Don's rig is very open and musical, non fatiguing. He treated us to several more bass sensations and some obscure music that you Freddyi seems to have inspired :-) Plenty of weirdness out there in the Indiana corn fields.The TH is about 90x15x17 and by itself goes a little lower than the four Half Labhorns, which in turn may be a little fuller sounding? Crossover was undetermined using a HT amp. I'd say there was a little room to fill around 80-150Hz. I brought the Brian Bromberg "Wood" disc, and playing the opening track bass solo, I heard the full bottom of his beautiful instrument. It is interesting to contemplate how much bottom "headroom" you need to experience the freedom of bass. ( sorry if this sounds like a Steeophile review :-(
I still wonder how high up in frequency this type of devices are useable. The bottom though was unbelievable.
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