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hi alli saw at http://www.sonicflare.com/ a report of emerald audio wich where at CES2007. I've missed their room, would have loved to hear their speakers. Has anyone heard them ?
What looks particularly intersting to me is their 1"bms driver, with 2 8" Ciare's for the mids. Seems to me a very intersting combination.
What is the clue of open baffles ? how can they sound better than sealed?
However, they use the cheapest of the cheapest drivers.... i dont understant how there can come out deep bass of OB...
Follow Ups:
Friends and I were so impressed with the 3-baffles-per-channel version shown at RMAF in Oct., we invited Clayton Shaw to demo them to the Arizona Audio Video Club. Based on feedback received in October, he made a 2-baffles-per-channel version and brought them to Phoenix in February.Here's the prototype of the double-baffle version in my garage where we assembled them.
The system requires triamplification and uses a dbx digital speaker-management system (SMS) for all crossovers, driver-spacing compensation, and equalization; a dbx DriveRack 260 is included in the price.
In my and many others' opinions, the magic of an open-baffle system is its spaciousness. That spaciousness may be a creation of the speaker in the room and NOT on the recording, but an OB system seems to recapture some of the spaciousness that's lost in the recording process.
Since the system's flat power response in YOUR room is created by the SMS, the tonal balance of the system can be anything you want it to be. Clayton sets his balance to be flat, which has not enough bass and lower-MR energy and WAY too much treble for me, and as the demo progressed, I created another response curve in the SMS (I have one of these in my system) that achieved a tonal balance more to my liking (and, of course, was rather colored).
My only complaint about the system's sound is the quality of the treble, which was always too hard for me. Others had NO problem with that, so I'm sure it's just my tin ears. The system was driven, initially, by my Outlaw 200WPC 7-channel poweramp, but it sounded better (and very, very good) driven by my 2 Music Reference 2.5WPC SETs on the MR and treble.
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Tin-eared audiofool and obsessed landscape fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
definately
> However, they use the cheapest of
> the cheapest drivers.... i dont understant
> how there can come out deep bass of OB...The drivers are cheap because they need to
be hi-Q which means a small magnet.
One of the fellas brought some OBs using Ciares to my place for a club meeting and they were terrible, every bit as bad as Klipsch Heresys, worse even. Real Skilsaws, my teeth are grinding now just thinking about them.As we used to say on the South Side of Chicago "I ain't mentionin' no names" but most of the OBs this fella built sound pretty good. But he also uses box subs. I only heard one subless OB that was worth a damn, that used EV Wolverine 12s. Now Kurt Chang has an open baffle sub that goes deep with power but it's a heroic effort with 8-18" drivers and it uses EQ and lots of power. Brute force. Not exactly what most of the OBers around here are up to.
Oh yeah, I liked the OB line arrays I made for my brother 25 years ago that used a bunch of 6x9 car speakers from the Layfeyette store. I got the idea from Weems. They probably sounded lousy but I liked them because I built them.
OBs are easy to make, that's why they sound good (to the makers).
hahaha Tommy - out of deep social-conscience , I've been trying to be a "fullranger" and so far have "mock Mormon monolith" with "helper tweeter" and one Ciare 10" CH250 dangling off a limp cardboard baffle plus a cheap filament xfomer as "generic-gizmo" (to adjust Z out though relected Z) and can say on drums at 7 inches (yes inches) listening distance. the Ciare has less balls than my K's at 50 feet outdoors.on the good side CH250's treble seems to stick out less than Heresy and doesn't require a helper tweeter plus does ok harpsichord other than missing bass.
21" OB gave impression of going low but with harmonics - how about some nice Magnepans?
Did you ever try that fostex FE164? Makes a decent 6" tweeter if horn loaded, but still kinda needs a piezo for the tippy top.OB - I like my celestion in my guitar amp........
hey GB - tried it on cardboard OB - pretty nice mids and wizzzer not missed. how much good did your secret-sauce do with that Fostex? Celestion 12 guitar speakers are good even in sealed box.must I go to BLH for FR bliss and dynamics? what am I missing vs other aggravating and disappointing stuff? Freddy
Secret sauce made it a little cleaner and less shouty. The FE series are kinda midfi compared to the sigma, FF and FX models i've heard. Haven't tried the bigmag FExx6e series though. That FE164 jumps a lot better in a front horn (big surprise). Thanks to the late great Terry Cain for convincing me to do the whizzerectomy.BLH? Maybe. I prefer the smaller Fostex units. 6" is OK. Maybe those BK16/FF165 madsound sells would be nice crossed to yer tall K18 at 80hz or so - if you don't mind sub/sat system.
had good vocals with internal k-tube (better in places including vocals than Revere 12 or Ciare 10 or SI) but internal k-tube with 1st order highpass seemed to dump some below passband ripple into the upper half of the coupler making it bark on a couple of poorly mixed taiko cds. I briefly ran a Unity on top of it with kluged xover around 300.if one opts for a sub, does BK16 make as much sense as RCA-Fan's BLH, "Veich", or BIB"? Can BIB do dynamics well running without a sub? Do you suggest 6" over 8" Fostex?
the 42" tall 18K is a good player overall - or was til a x15 wing's sharp tip fell over and punched a hole in the woofer - wonder if weldbond and coffee filter paper would make an invisable path?
enough of this horn crap - its time to get on with KRAP !!! - any ideas?
I prefer the 6, or even smaller if used as a mid. The larger ones veer kinda harsh and shouty, though FX200 had nice dynamics. I bet the FE206 or FF225 in RCA fan horn would be cool though. Either way is probably fine, but personally i'd lean toward BK16 with a sub.BIB from posted FR seem to have some midbass suckout. Could be great for a purist FR system in the right room, but I'd think if using a sub, going with a higher Fc BH that isn't lean in the mid and upper bass would work better.
hey GB - BK16 would save JL some grief on horn so it could be better applied to new coupler. I refuse to give up on K (for now) and think they offer some value and possiblities for adjustment - whadya think after suffering K15 & K12?btw - 115BK is fun for a hit box (lmited to ~80 outdoors) and has with its 20 degree baffle more subjective mid output than K15 - so the game is to make a leaner sounding 15" coupler which will be taller but no bulkier than K15 and have similar extension - maybe 20"W by 36-38H? - use P-Audio low mass neo 15" and K-tube.
got 15" B&C = with reflex = too thick & lifeless for 2-way with stuff I've got - probably sound thick in aperiodic...
Karen Black vid
I still like the Karlson K15. No room for them anymore unfortunately. K12 were better than i expected - kinda weird but strong holo image, but needs a sub and the right driver.I don't think I'd go narrower than a stock K15 myself, just a couple inches taller - but 20" you can probably get away with. Still curious what canting the wings out a few degrees would do.
Wonder what a fancy seas aluminum or mag cone 8 or 10" driver would sound like in a small K? Lower SPL hifi drivers might be best in a K8/10 etc, so as not to give up too much of the low bass.
Cool Karen Black vid. BTW, played a show last year with Nancy S's daughter - em me for details...
with all the beautiful & varied women in the world Karen proves j-girls rule the roost.....incredible & mezmerizing plus nice voice.does Nancy's daughter have some of "that" timbre? - or different sound? what was your band at the time?
K12 with 80oz magnet coaxial with APT50 hits a very hard and holographic sound with "Zarb" by Pablo Cueco - maybe a couple of tapped-style horn towers could keep up.
taller 15K might be good to tighten up sound - do you think taller and less baffle angle could work for 12"?
I want to try an 8k FR with cheap 2.17% efficient Sammi - its loud in klam 8 and two klam 8 might do some sorta party work - one klam at 100ft was reasonaly loud - still pretty loud nearly at 200
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