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In Reply to: RE: BIS SACD posted by Tony Lauck on June 09, 2012 at 12:14:00
"A system should reproduce music undistorted at live concert levels, e.g. row 20 in an orchestral hall. If it can't, then complain about the system, not the recordings. "
Really was not complaining about BIS, did you by any chance read the rest on my post?
Vahe
Follow Ups:
Tony Lauck says:
"A system should reproduce music undistorted at live concert levels, e.g. row 20 in an orchestral hall. If it can't, then complain about the system, not the recordings. "
Should all the BIS buyers own a high end system?? If so a warning label should be on the cd cover.
A few of my classical music friends that do have modest system complains about the BIS volume settings.
Should all the BIS buyers own a high end system?? If so a warning label should be on the cd cover.
"
And speaking of warning, Telarc used to place warning labels on their early recordings both vinyl and early RBCD, but this was not audio signal compression related issue, it was primarily to stop woofer blow ups because of their super exaggerated BOOM BOOM bass drums which became Telarc’s signature house sound.
No such problems with BIS, theirs is true high fidelity, do not mess with the signal, you can always blame the orchestras for the dynamic range that they produce or the playback systems that can not cope with it.
And then there is the popularity of vinyl, an entire generation of old timers that got used to the limited dynamics of this antique format and would not accept anything different, even if it happens to be the real thing.
Vahe
BTW, BIS also used to have stickers on their early CD's, with warnings about their wide dynamic range.And if I may weigh in on the home sound pressure levels issue, I've checked my system with a SPL meter, and I do not exceed 90 DB, and yet a have no problem with hearing the softer portions of BIS recordings. This whole discussion just sounds crazy to me - although some posters, such as you, Tony, Fitz, et al, have injected some sanity back into the discussion. ;-)
Edits: 06/10/12
What Tony Lauck says is absolute nonsense ,you cannot reproduce Concert Hall levels in a normal domestic Home environment.
Edits: 06/10/12
"What Tony Lauck says is absolute nonsense ,you cannot reproduce Concert Hall levels in a normal domestic Home environment."
I do this every day for most kinds of classical music from solo piano through Mahler Symphonies. About the only classical music that I can't reproduce at concert levels are organ fundamentals. My near field monitors are rated at a peak SPL of 118 dB at my listening distance.
I listen in a small room, formerly a bedroom. I live alone and there are no neighbors within hundreds of feet most of the time, so I play the music as loud as I like. Volume is constrained only by my desire for the music to sound unamplified and for my ears to remain undamaged.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
and your ears are still OK ??
I tend not to like loud music, especially in a smallish room.
I also do not like live loud music, when going to listen to live classical music I prefer sitting near the back.
Once I measured at what level I was listening to classical orchestral music and the peaks where around 90db at the listening position and this was pretty loud. My speakers are efficient (92db) thus in theory I was only using less than 1 watt of power with the volume control about 50% open.
I do not listen at 118 dB. This figure comes from the manual for my monitors. The manual also includes a warning about possible hearing damage.
I play most recordings at a volume setting about 20 dB lower than what the system is capable of, which means instantaneous peaks just under 100 dB and fortissimo orchestral passages at an average of 85 dB, about the same level you describe. Anything louder for more than a short period will result in hearing loss. However, I know that the system still plays cleanly after increasing the gain by 20 dB from this usual setting, but I have to be in the hallway outside the door at the back of the room at this point.
The confusion comes from the difference between peak power and average power. For a sine wave, this difference is 3 dB. For a typical recording of a symphony orchestra this difference is more like 20 dB. The better the recording the more power will be required to handle peaks. A typical current pop/rock recording will have a ratio below 10 dB, which means that you can destroy your hearing while creating 1/10th the greenhouse gases. :-)
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
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