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In Reply to: RE: Thinking about upgrading my SACD player posted by Doktor Brahms on March 12, 2012 at 17:30:20
are u using unbalanced outputs(RCA) or balanced outputs(XLR) from the Marantz SA14 into your VAC pre-amps?
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The SA-14's balanced XLR output terminals were wired pin 3 hot instead of the usual pin 2. Going into the VAC pre-amp's balanced XLR inputs, which are wired pin 2 hot, the audio signal's absolute polarity will be inverted.So how do you compensate for this?
Correct absolute polarity will give you more visceral dynamics, more vivid soundstaging, better definition of image outline, and more realistic sense of musicality.
Edits: 03/13/12
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My previous preamp (a Sonic Frontiers Line 1) had a phase inversion switch on the remote control. In most cases, inverting phase didn't really make that much difference, in my experience. This may indict the acuity of my hearing, but whatever....
I realize that this does not really address the issue of absolute polarity. However, I suspect that in real-world situations, preserving phase integrity is probably not a top priority at the average recording session. Think of all the cables, the mike preamps, the mixing consoles, and on and (alas!) on. It is possible--even likely--that the average recording comes to us with the phase integrity compromised to one extent or another. I may be completely off base here, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
"....I realize that this does not really address the issue of absolute polarity. However, I suspect that in real-world situations, preserving phase integrity is probably not a top priority at the average recording session. Think of all the cables, the mike preamps, the mixing consoles, and on and (alas!) on. It is possible--even likely--that the average recording comes to us with the phase integrity compromised to one extent or another. I may be completely off base here, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it...."There are 2 separate, but interrelated issues at hand here.
I have a friend who was terrible unhappy with his system.
But he couldn't put a finger on it why it was so.
As it turned out, his accuphase cdp balanced out was wired pin 3 hot, going into pass amps.
Switching to unbalanced brought back imaging focus and better sense of dynamic impact into his system.
The sonic differences were marginal at best, but with RCA connection, everything just clicks.
It's a fine line, but my friend just knew it which side of the line he was in.There's another fella whom I communicated in an audio forum.
He is using marantz SACD player with polarity switch.
He just went ahead engaged the switch, thinking that it would help compensate for polarity inversion.
We discussed it at length, and he agreed to take a test
1. SA11S2 polarity switch engaged (180 degree polarity invert), player end of interconnect wired pin2 hot
2. SA11S2 polarity switch disengaged (0 degree no polarity invert), player end of interconnect wired pin3 hotHe had another set of identical balanced cable wired pin 3 hot at the player end.
He heard the difference straight away.
In this test, absolute polarity was the same in both cases, so why would he hear a difference?His own words were someing like "...Frankly when the phase invert switch was engaged, there was very little difference. Some have said that this switch is for recordings recorded out of phase and not change in polarity of the pins. That's why I had to change the polarity of the interconnects which did have a difference...."
i was the one edging him to change the pin configuration on the XLR connector at the player end, even though everyone else was saying that absolute polarity was the only problem and merely engaging the polarity switch was sufficient.
You see - it's all about maintaining the correct signal flow directionality.
despite the fact that his marantz already have a polarity switch to correct absolute polarity reversal, the bigger (and more audible) problem for him then was that the positive signal from player's XLR output pin3 was being transmitted down the negative signal carrying conductor of the interconnect and vice versa. this constitute a reversal of signal flow directionality on the balanced XLR interconnect cable between the SACD player and his pre-amp, which was audible to him, and was retified by the XLR terminal pin configuration change.
Edits: 03/15/12 03/15/12
When I owned my SA-11S2 I was able to invert the polarity via my ARC preamp. Failing the VAC having the same capability one can always swap the pos/neg speaker cables which would do the same thing.
There is also the lengthy debate on whether or not the recording itself has the "correct" polarity so inverting the polarity at the source, within the preamp or swapping speaker leads may not realize the optimal results on a recording by recording basis...
But you had reversed the signal flow directionality within your arc amps, by engaging its analog domain polarity switch, which is even worst.Even if you were to invert the absolute polarity digitally on the newer marantz SACD players, you'll still subjecting the XLR interconnect cable between the player and the pre-amp to reverse signal flow directionality.
People who had done the comparison below found that sound is different, even though polarity is the same in both cases.
1. SA11S2 polarity switch engaged (180 degree polarity invert), player end of interconnect wired pin2 hot
2. SA11S2 polarity switch disengaged (0 degree no polarity invert), player end of interconnwire hanged pin3 hotThat is because signal flow directionality is far, far more audible.
Edits: 03/13/12
That doesn't sound right.
Regards,
Geoff
"signal flow directionality"
What the hell is this? Never heard of this concept
Don't AC signals flow in both directions?
Also the absolute polarity on most multi miked recordings is a crap shoot anyway.
Alan
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