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In Reply to: RE: Esoteric DV-60 vs. SCD-1 with VSEI mods posted by chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com on March 26, 2009 at 10:30:45
My modded SCD-1 equals or surpasses the DCS stack and Zanden player that I heard demoed through VTL electronics and Escalante Fremont speakers by Sound by Singer. My thinking is that above a certain level of performance, auditions outside one's own system are primarily helpful in judging speakers and source. It's hard to get RBCD "perfect", which makes it easier to identify differences between players when away from home.
Follow Ups:
"My thinking is that above a certain level of performance, auditions outside one's own system are primarily helpful in judging speakers and source."
I can see your thinking, though for me it is impossible to make any meaningful comparison or evaluation in such circumstances as all it is possible to do is compare one system to another.
You say that your SCD-1 "equals or surpasses the DCS stack and Zanden player" you heard, but unless you place your SCD-1 in the same system any comparison is impossible. All you can say is that your system using the SCD-1 sounds better to you, although I admit is only human nature to do what you have done.
Consider that if you were primarily interested in the speakers, you would have come to the conclusion that your speakers were better than the Escalante Fremonts you heard, and if you were primarily interested in the amplification you would have come to the conclusion that your amps were better than the VTL electronics you heard. :0)
Whenever I've been interested in a source component, be it SACD or CD, I've always either taken my source to use in the other player's system, or friends have brought there source over to my place. It's easier with source components obviously as amps and especially speakers aren't quite so manageable.
Even if you'd heard them all in the system though, I wouldn't have even raised an eyebrow at you suggesting that your SCD-1 is better than or equal to the Zanden or DCS stack. I might disagree if I heard the same comparison, but then again I might agree - who knows.
What had me rolling my eyes was when I read that the poster in question was saying the SCD-1 was 'many times' better than 'any' player over 15K when I know this isn't true, and that the poster won't have heard every player over 15K.
Let's restrict ourselves to making comments about our experiences or expectations, rather than passing off expectations as experiences or facts.
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
"I wouldn't have even raised an eyebrow at you suggesting that your SCD-1 is better than or equal to the Zanden or DCS stack"
I remember a few years back that the Zanden got a rave in a rag even though one of the outputs was wired in reverse polarity. Funny how such flawed reviewing can be accepted at face value, yet when another box is trashed people cry because it is their precious toy.
You've lost me - might be the glass of wine I've just had?
Which box is being 'trashed' and who is crying because the box is their precious toy?
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
Just finished Stereophile April Recommended Components issue-- my last issue in a three-year subscription. Suffice to say that Michael Fremer's writing is the only thing that leads me to pause before letting the subscription expire for good. His tour of Vegas emptied out except for rows of $200K components at CES makes the audio industry read like Madoff before the fall. It's a good time to get off a runaway train.
I agree that comparisons involving multiple variables are difficult. But if one spends enough time with RBCD, it becomes apparent that most players-- even very expensive ones-- have difficulties. Some of the differences between players are a yin/yang thing(comparison in the same system of DCS and Zanden was a good illustration of this point.) But few players(even these two) get it all right: resolution & transparency without the compromise of dryness, organic unsynthetic analog-like sound without the compromise of HF roll-off, dynamic scale without the compromise of aggression & fatigue. The well-modded SCD-1 gets all these things right. Whether listening at home or in hi-fi emporium, if things are not right at source then it carries all the way through. Garbage in, garbage out.
One reasonable way to make comparisons between digital sources across systems is to use good vinyl as a benchmark. There is less variability between excellent vinyl front ends than there is between top RBCD players. Few owners of high end vinyl front ends will maintain that their RBCD approaches the level of their vinyl. But if your ears tell you otherwise-- that you're approaching convergence between the formats, then you know you're hearing great digital. The modded Sony approaches this level.
"Few owners of high end vinyl front ends will maintain that their RBCD approaches the level of their vinyl. But if your ears tell you otherwise".
Well, I don't have a vinyl front end and my reference is how natural a source component can make a system sound, not how 'vinyl' which is usually taken to mean 'analogue'.
I've heard digital sources which sound natural and analogue, yet when the digital source is not as good as it can be it manifests itself in a sound which is far less easy on the ear than when a turntable isn't as good as it could be.
I'd also disagree that there is less variation between high-end vinyl than high-end digital when arms and cartridges have such variation in themselves, but if we all agreed then these forums wouldn't be half as much fun as they are now.
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
Yes vinyl is a"forgiving" format, in the sense that a wide range of vinyl gears sound musical. But if you had both vinyl and digital formats in your system and spent time and money developing the two formats to the point where they sound pretty much alike, then you might conclude that you are converging on an end point. Moreover, if you're into modding gear, and reached this point after installing better piece parts and circuit designs, then you might further conclude that there is a convergence of art and science on this point.
"Moreover, if you're into modding gear, and reached this point after installing better piece parts and circuit designs, then you might further conclude that there is a convergence of art and science on this point."
I'm not into modding gear as such, though I do believe that with audio, the simpler the circuit is the better, which also means shortest signal paths, the least processing and the very best components/conductors which means silver.
"But if you had both vinyl and digital formats in your system and spent time and money developing the two formats to the point where they sound pretty much alike, then you might conclude that you are converging on an end point."
If you go to an audio show where Audio Note have a room, you'll find one of their turntables alongside a digital front end, and if it wasn't for the odd click/pop of older vinyl you'd be hard pressed to know which source was playing.
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
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