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This is a quick read from Stereophile. The standout sentence is:
"Audiophiles don't use their equipment to listen to music. Audiophiles use your music to listen to their equipment."
Follow Ups:
I for one and probably may others here started to enjoy music via an awful AM radio.
As life went on i discovered that it was possible to not have static and distortion that came with radio music.
To enjoy the music more and more as time went by I worked to improve the way it sounded. I'm not sure what that makes me based on all of the description here.
If it didn't matter how music sounds I guess I could take my glass of wine and sit in the car and listen.
I just don't understand why this same discussion happens on every audio site, like you have to choose one side or the other. That doesn't mean it shouldn't happen, just that I don't understand.
Not the first thing, won't be the last.
"Audiophiles don't use their equipment to listen to music. Audiophiles use your music to listen to their equipment."
That's rich coming from Stereophile... A magazine always trying to convince you to buy something else.. I remember when the X-can headphone amp, the round one with tubes was on its way out.. Stereophile did a review about the outgoing amp claiming it was terrific , last chance, never again , better get one... Only later to do a review on how great the new one is, just amazing, better everything everywhere... ad nausea..
Once I stopped reading Stereophile and trying to keep up with the latest and greatest "push", I started enjoying and tweaking what I had and let my ears become the experts to listen to..
I still glance at the rags... but hearing for myself and other USERS is a better way to get educated than by sponsors and columnists
Left channel, Left Channel, Right Channel, Right Channel, Clap, Clap, Boom, Boom.
I guess I'm not an audiophile.
"Left channel, Left Channel, Right Channel, Right Channel.... "
I was once drunk and thought I had the speakers hooked up backwards..... So I swapped the wiring to the speakers.... But then I went back to my chair, and realized it was facing the wrong way.........
What's really weird too is having the polarity [phase] incorrect on just one speaker. It creates a sensation of 'spaciousness' and it's really quite 'spacey' ;-)
Mine must be defective, all I get are test tones.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
I admit that I once owned a half-dozen or so of those Stereophile test CDs. I also had an LP that was used for adjusting TT cartridges in conjunction with the "Fozgometer" device.
Edits: 12/31/20 12/31/20
.
Usually, it is the other way around.
Couldn't agree more.
Beyond that it's a laughable 'tool'
For those who own(ed) a copy. Wooof!
"The only cats worth anything are the cats who take chances. Sometimes I play things I never heard myself." Thelonious Monk
View YouTube Video
There has always been a clear differentiation between the notion of an audiophile, and that of a music lover. Of course, most if not all audiophiles are avid music lovers, but they have taken a keen interest in how sound reproduction can be greatly affected by what type, make/model, and methodology is chosen for the purpose. A music lover who is not an audiophile can still be an audio equipment fan, a gearhead who does not pay much attention to what a typical audiophile cares so much about. I've come across a number of AA Inmates who are gearheads, but don't relate to the audiophile demographic.
There are many levels of audiophile interest, with some folks paying close attention to what audiophiles might share in a forum like Audio Asylum, pick-out a nice audio system that fits their lifestyle and budget, and will only casually thumb-through a catalog from an audio retailer to see what might strike their fancy, since their enjoyment of music has been greatly increased by the improved sonics that dedicated if not obsessed audiophiles have helped to develop and advocate over the years. Then there are the very many different kinds of audio gear that a listener can choose from, and this in itself can become a fascinating activity.
There are many special interests that capture the heart and mind of those who deeply relate to such matters, including many hobbies that involve just as much enthusiasm over what others may find uninteresting, or even trite. What's the big deal, they might ask. But audio gear and all things associated have a profound effect in the lives of a stereotypical audiophile, in a manner that can be considered a waste of time and effort for so little reward. It's just music others might say, as long as they can feel the bass, they are quite happy with the Boogie Factor.
There is also a social factor involved in audiophilia, since from the very beginning audio clubs and audio rags were of great interest, especially those who were in the US military that returned to America during the second world war, many who learned how to operate, and how to repair advanced electronics and electrical systems that the military implemented throughout the war, including overwhelming new technologies introduced during such intensive wartime efforts. So technology and electrical engineering is just as vital as being addicted to sound like many audiophiles are, and maybe don't quite know it, as of yet.
Radio Row in New York City, which happened to be where the Twin Towers once stood, offered tube amplifier parts and kits and other gear for sale, and sold finished audio components to folks like my father, who bought a fine-sounding Lafayette tube audio system that I grew-up with, and thus became captivated with the magic of loudspeakers during my youth. So I became an audiophile while I danced in front of the loudspeakers as a toddler, since I wasn't just listening to the music, I was feeling the sound.
Cheers, Duster
When my father was young he too visited the stores of radio row.
Long time ago.
There was also a 'radio row' on 45th from 5th to 8th Ave...but the magic of Chambers,Duane and Barclay was gone- Even the tropical fish stores disappeared. I live on Duane and see across the new towers. Do truly miss what was, but not when the WTC was here.
Sticks and stones, etc.
....so hate me. I also drive a BMW, I'm an engineer (elitist) and my wife is Chinese (something for the racists). No children (selfish) and I'm sure i could find a few other things that people could hate me for. Do I care, not a bit.
Your superior knowledge of craft beers, rare wines, and expensive watches. I notice your system isn't listed though.
....just pointing out some of the many reason one can attract scorn in today's world.
Nt
In Canada?
Ha. I wandered the streets many a lonely night with a belly full of Labatt's Blue...
BMW sells about 350,000 cars per year in the North American market and I'd guess they are on the road for at least 10 years so that's a lot of BMWs.
As for engineers, about 4.8 million were in US workplace and I'm guessing there are quite a few are in Canada as well.
As for Chinese wives, there are estimated to be about 1.4 Billion people worldwide who indemnify as Chinese and a significant percentage are women who are married which means...
Elitism is HARD!
We could be friends... And you've got a much better health Care system. My Canadian Friends are of the few that actually understand how nuts half of America is.
n
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
will do.Audiophile is far easier to say, though.
Edits: 12/30/20
Of a Stereophile writer disclaiming the word "audiophile"? Are they not nearly identical, just limit to 2-channels?
But as viridian suggested, I label myself as an audio hobbyist. However I am among the older ones here. ;^)
"The only cats worth anything are the cats who take chances. Sometimes I play things I never heard myself." Thelonious Monk
Early peoples who discovered fire set by lightning hitting a tree that gave them knowledge of it's uses: warmth, cooking, and light.
They carried containers of burning wood with them for a long time, knowing it's uses but ignorant of the means to create it.
Ab Esse Ad Posse Valet Fellatio
RCMR on Google Groups is having one of their intermittent "Two-Minutes Hate" threads against "audiophools" right now, and I've posted to the thread a couple of times. It's really not worth the effort, but, sometimes, you have to fight the good fight! ;-)
Did Oogh and his tribe dream up the idea of putting a haunch of meat over their fire for some reason?
Or is it more likely that someone of them was fucking around the fire, got badly burned and they all thought, "that smells GOOD!"
Ab Esse Ad Posse Valet Fellatio
It is bad enough the average person will think pedophile when they hear ..'ophile, now you want associate us with cannibalism! And stop supposing how things were done in the past, CfL doesn't like historically informed viewpoints :)
'CfL doesn't like historically informed viewpoints :)'*sputters*!! oh no! another use for the acronym 'HIV' !!
but this one gives you 'Acquired Instrument Deficiency Syndrome'
aka. pianoforte`
OK, move along, nothing to see here ...
regards & grins,
Edits: 12/30/20
I copied / pasted that term right off the interwebs CFL!!
it was being used as a noun!!
and using two, not one, not three, but TWO exclamation points here!!!!
oops
with regards,
'phile = like/love of
'phobe = dislike,hate of
John Kuthe...
nt
Nt
Phile denotes a person who loves or has a fondness for a specified thing. 'Phile' comes from the ancient Greek word, ' phileein' meaning to love. thefreedictionary defines 'Phile' as One that loves or has a strong affinity or preference for. Here are 50 Philes and their love:
Oh, never mind.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
From Merriam-Webster
Definition of audiophile
: a person who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproductionSupposedly first used in Hi Fidelity Magazine 1951
Edits: 12/29/20
yeah, I think that columnist's opinion piece was just that
he should get out more, maybe talk to people outside his 'bubble'
perhaps read things beyond his immediate interest
instead of pulling words out of his .... nah, not going there
regards,
That's your definition, not mine.
Dictionarynouninformal
noun: audiophile; plural noun: audiophilesa hi-fi enthusiast.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 12/29/20 12/29/20
my favorite, has goofed. Says A person having an ardent interest in stereo or high fidelity sound reproduction. I like Mono a lot. What is high fidelity? I ardently like the sound of Thunderstorms and even air horns and police sirens. The sounds made by cats and dogs are high fidelity? Really surprised Heritage came up with such a definition.
Happy New Year
Bill
All real sounds are what they are. When a sound is recorded and played back it either sounds very much like the original or it doesn't. If it does then it's called high fidelity.
high fidelity, a high degree of fidelity to the original.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
"the degree of exactness with which something is copied or reproduced."
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Seems like a good many prefer euphonia -- high 2HD, low output tube amplification, speakers with resonant boxes and gross inaccuracies in the frequency and phase domains, phono cartridges with rolled off HF response, highly capacitive cables, dubious tweaks, etc. Some of these are openly contemptuous of measurements, engineering, or any pursuit of "accuracy" whatsoever.
There are definitely two (or more) schools of thought under the general umbrella of "audiophilia."
Excellent post. You said it. Even though the definitions say exact reproduction lovers, audiophiles love playing around with sound. The example of Set amps hit the nail on the head. And Set owners are considered the greatest audiophiles.
Happy New Year
Bill
A study of Psychoacoustics is needed here.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Link below:
Dictionary
hi-fi
adjective
adjective: hi-fi; adjective: hifi
of, used for, or relating to the reproduction of music or other sound with high fidelity.
"hi-fi equipment"
noun
noun: hi-fi; plural noun: hi-fis; noun: hifi; plural noun: hifis
a set of equipment for playing recorded music in high-fidelity sound.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Or a Stereophile. So, yes, there could be a better word but the meaning is still the same i.e. more excited about buying a new cable than a Qobuz subscription.
13DoW
nyuk nyuk.
Nt
nt
If I asked a guy who did not have an analog reel to reel deck if he would like a reel tape or a pair of interconnects my guess is he would take the interconnects, no matter how he identified himself. Or do you need those streaming things to be a music lover?
I think listening to reel-to-reel says a lot about a person. Like the serial killer at the end of 'The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo' listening to Enya as he tries to disembowel the hero :)
Just joking. Actually, being a serial killer is one thing but listening to Enya - that's sick.
Nt
I write a column for Hagerty Media, and the recordings I recommend are collected in a Qobuz playlist, for one-stop listening.
And, their hi-res requires no additional equipment...
jm
But no derision for digital sources, much of it sounds great. Just not for me. So for me, your playlist would require additional equipment. The hobby is big enough for all of us, I hope.BTW, always enjoy your writing, kudos on the new gig.
Edits: 12/29/20 12/29/20
Is it the case that the analog tapes you play are recent copies?
The reason I ask is that the analog tapes from the time my JMR projects were recorded all-analog (1982 to say 1994), are in pretty fragile shape, with justified fears of Sticky Shedding Syndrome.
I know that there are new copies being dubbed... but the prices I have seen are eye-watering.
Ciao,
john
15 ips 2 track dubs of JMR material could bring $200-300 per with the proper promotion (no, I'm not volunteering) I'd be a likely buyer though. Factor in the price of new tape, reels and packaging and it might still be a mouth-watering prospect. Source would be safety masters, not onesy twosy dubs from precious master tapes. Acoustic Sounds is selling such tapes at a 300/month clip at $450 per, or so I've heard.
That's Sticky Shed Syndrome, btw. Tell me offline what tape stock was used and I can probably tell you whether SSS is a worry, if you're interested.
Making do with older tapes and groups that I recorded myself. But ya, shedding and print through are real problems. It's happening to the Columbia tapes, you know it is happening to mine.
Surprise, reel tape turned out not to be an archival medium. Thank goodness digital masters will, presumably, not degrade. I shake my head at how much of our rich musical heritage that has been lost. And don't forget, those eye wateringly expensive tapes are being dubbed from 50 year old masters that have the same issues. It's no win, unless you can get new analog recordings on new tape. And who is to say that you will like the music? I would fold that hand.
I haven't referred to myself as an audiophile for about two decades now. I got tired of the pretense and silliness and didn't, and still don't, want to be associated with that end of the hobby.
If you asked 100 people what specifically an "audiophile" is, you'd likely get 100 different answers..... The only commonality is that he/she enjoys audio.
Take the word "discrimination" for example. The original dictionary definition simply means you can tell the difference between things -- this apple has rotted and will make you sick while that one is fresh. It is very good to be able to discriminate in this fashion.
However, for many these days, their minds leap instantly to the limited social negative connotation of the word. I suspect very few people would state out loud in a crowd that they practice discrimination, even if they were talking about good food versus bad. They'd find other words to say it.
Lots of words carry similar baggage. Audiophile is just one example.
That's the way language works. People use language to represent what's inside their head. They can also use language to create new things that never existed before. Since people use language in these ways then language will change as people change. Whether that change is for the better or worse is up to all of us to decide.
Agreed -- the popular useage of words can change and overtake the dictionary definition.
And sometimes that leads people who had formerly used the word to stop doing so.
I personally kind of block out all the noise.....
I've called myself an "audiophile", and some people also claim I'm not..... Two minutes later, I'm off the subject......
I do think the stigma audiophiles have received over the years has played a role in the 50 year stagnation in regard to sound quality of both mainstream audio and mainstream music...... Because producers and mainstream audio designers have brushed aside the critical feedback that audiophiles provide, which could have been valuable to the refinement, advancement, and consumer satisfaction (audiophile and non-audiophile) of the products from both industries.
Like many other industries -- TV, fashion, movies and others -- the main thrust of the music industry has long been the mass market, which for music means the stuff young people buy. That's where the mass market lies, which in turn means that's where the money is.
But, like other industries, there has always also been a niche market for quality. A few smaller record labels, often classical and jazz, but sometimes including other genres, do focus on producing quality recordings.
But, when a company's focus is on peddling the latest pop or rap track to people in cars or using ear buds with their iPhone, the concept of "audiophile" recording quality goes out the window. This is no surprise and any other expectations for the mass market are rather futile.
'50 year stagnation in regard to sound quality'
that's not what I see but maybe I'm just not looking where you are
there's been ongoing refinement and advancements in speaker [driver] technology, amplification [despite the SS vs. tubes thing], playback front ends of all manner ... digital streaming / DACS in particular ... a revival in vinyl and getting it right
the loudness wars were left behind quite some time ago [now it's a battle over compression and pitch processing in pop] yet there's strong parallel efforts for naturalistic recording technique, a return to 'old school' methods, in addition to commensurate advancements in recording tech with those ideals kept in mind
so maybe you're not looking where I am, or dismissing it out of hand
there's even greater access to quality instruments than ever before as well as media platforms to get musicians actually heard around the world
ah well, now you'll tell me to get off your lawn right?
regards,
The speakers have indeed improved, across the board...... The measuring equipment has improved, the technologies in drivers, enclosures, materials....... I cannot argue that.
I contend that digital audio sources have gone sideways, if not regressed..... I don't hear much in non-CD sources (servers, high-rez, etc.) that enthrall me all that much..... Although I do think DACs for CD and CD quality playback have improved from a digital filter standpoint, mainly because designers have realized that asynchronous sample rate conversion (aka "24/192 upsampling") was a regressive "technology".....
I believe vinyl playback has improved, especially in regard to inexpensive turntables, cartridges, and phono stages..... The problem is the quality of recent vinyl recordings/pressings are too much "miss" and not enough "hit". (A lot of the better recent recordings, both analog and digital, seem to have a focus on "system compatibility" rather than ultimate fidelity and dynamic range.) I've seen more "birdbath" dish warps in LPs over the past year than all of what I've seen prior to the year 2010..... (It used to be a sight to behold, now it's a common occurrence.) Warps in LPs made me invest in a "Vinyl Flat" record flattener, and I use it all the time. (There is a learning curve to making this work, by the way.)
Overprocessing, Auto-Tune, and digital processing artifacts too often make it to recordings, often making audiophiles pull their hair out wondering why the sound isn't any better..... I'll never forget about 10 years ago, an audiophile acquaintance spent hours upon hours trying to fix midrange anomalies in his system, not realizing it was the Auto-Tune on some of his evaluation recordings that was causing the problem.
I think that the vinyl pressing issue will get handled as more $$ flows to it. I keep hearing & reading reviews of new LP's without mention of the mfg. problems you cite [my T/T is mothballed for the time being] and as I stated, there are those involved in music production from the recording process to end point who hold forward looking vision with historical values on quality coming on line all the time
just look over your own post Todd, you shed 40 years of pessimism as you typed it out! you went from 50 years of problems to citing 2010 as pivotal for a lot of them ... for instance the auto-tune / compression issue doesn't surface in new jazz recordings / LP's or otherwise ... I've read complaints of auto-tune even invading entire classical recordings, but those seem to be confined to remasters and fading because of the backlash
as to the OP hi-lighting an opinion piece on terminology for gear / music enthusiast needing another name besides 'audiophile' ... any word can be twisted into other meanings by vernacular; should there be a 'new' term for audiophile what would prevent that word from carrying the same 'baggage' since it's describing the same thing besides 'nothing'? a rose is a rose eh?
now, get off my artificial low maintenance lawn you curmudgeon!!
with regards,
Unfortunate that the (relatively) simple pursuit of... discernment (sound system, clothes, food, wine, watches, toilet paper)
... get lumped into class/money snobbism uber categories that lead to that pretense and silliness.
Human nature and the need to preen via status symbol sensibilities.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
Nt
then you're confusing the term with prejudices
seriously ... technically that's what you're doing
regards,
I am not making that judgement but the term, as many others, is often used by outsiders as a label for stereotypical and strange behavior.
OTOH, I do consider myself an audiophile and I am comfortable with the label.
I know ... but cliche` is shorter to type!
Wiki pages are fairly representative of current trends, and the term isn't reflected as derogatory there ... didn't encounter it as a negative in the main, so to speak, elsewhere either
just because a writer decided to frame it as such doesn't validate his opinion, and it isn't a representation of any wider perception aligning with it as far as I can tell ... and I looked! nope, he speaks for himself about his own 'bubble' and he's talking out of his ass IMO
see for yourself!
with regards,
when did that happen?
it's generally defined as a listener that cares about fidelity in music reproduction ... seems like a perfectly serviceable word to me
regards,
Nt
huh ... I thought Wiki pages changed faster than that and were more reflective of current culture ... ah well
what would be a good substitute term?
stereofetishist? audiosnob? multichanneltroll? foolwithpartedmoney?
gearheadearhead! uhm ... 'Bob'?
regards,
Nt
well, we were all kids once
I'm still chuckling over Covid69
that was inspired!
best regards,
Nt
Yes, no, maybe.
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