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nt
Follow Ups:
I laughed my you know what off when i saw this. sure lets put my 1000 amp on 5700 stand wow huge sound improvement LOL. I agree with the one post for that kind of money will come hold your amp, hilarious but I agree with him and Ill hold the other side lol.
I need one of those $5600 amp stands for my $2000 Rogue integrated amp! I'm sure it will take the Rogue to the next level.... whatever that means in audiophiledom.
I hope that includes a nice leather couch and loveseat.....plus a hand crafted coffee table of rare and exotic hardwood.....plus a one of a kind metal art stand alone reading lamp. Have I hit $5700 yet?
with an extra pair of cones to pitch the user's head. What were they thinking to spend so much money on an 'audio' system!
Like the old saying goes, "theres an ass for every seat".
I throw my windows open wide and call to you across the sky.
...fits my beer budget, works great.
See ya. Dave
nt
Sounds great now!
This would cost $1300 plus $2600 or $3900. I have had many amp stands granite blocks, sand boxes, and badders, including the SP Comp. Stand with SP Ultra SSs, and this is far superior.
`
Smile
Sox
I'm so tired of bullshit.
"I'm so tired of bullshit."
Me too, normally it's just part of the fun but this one annoyed for some reason. Maybe it's the season...
'We give energy in the air a pathway out of the component so that components are not saturated with vibration from the loudspeakers.'
My Power Amp. doesn't need this hunk of junk, it just farts if it gets too full of energetic air!
Rick
and $200,000 speakers, - you'd probably want a pretty good amp stand to bring out their best, as well as good speaker cables, and interconnects.
Of course, that is the retail price, which most everyone does not pay. And, if you didn't want to pay a good deal less, then you'd have the option, (as was clear), of getting a few, (cheaper), models down.
High performance comes at a high price.
Why are you holding up the audio industry to any higher standards than are in effect for other luxury item, high performance, industries?
Do you rant about the prices of Lamborghinis?
What is "bullshit" is people who make comments on a price of something that no one pays, (and then makes assumptions and judgments), without any knowledge or any experience. I have heard Joe's isolation components and they are far from "bullshit." I characterize that kind of term to mean that there is zero difference, and that is not the case.
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
Isolate from what exactly?
.
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
"Isolate from what exactly?"
That's hilarious.
If I had $80,000 amplifiers, even if purchased at a discount, I'd expect them to work properly in the environment for which they were designed without having to add an expensive kludge to try and fix them.
If they didn't I would be looking for an RMA number, not a patch!
Rick
But an isolation device, as a separate component-like device designed to reduce noise, and vibration bleed.....
You probably use one already under your CD player. If you do not, - then you might find one helpful.
As Joe probably designed his: he came up with a methodology to reduce vibration and control resonant frequency. He probably found that if he took some further steps, vibration was reduced further.
There is nothing broken to fix, there is no Kludge, - they are legitimate devices designed for a specific purpose.
They either reduce noise or they do not. Just because you have an $80,000 pair of amps that sound better than $3000 amps, it doesn't mean that either one is broken. It probably DOES mean that right out of the box the $80,000 amps make a lot less noise/distortion, but that doesn't mean that isolation devices, and/or room treatments won't help those amps sound even better.
In this case, - you could use $7 isolation devices, $700 isolation devices, or $7500 ones, stands. A customer will more than likely go for the most effective treatment. Perhaps you would find the $7 treatment more effective? Who knows, until you try.
I know Joe, and it is highly likely that any of his stands cost him considerably less than half his retail prices to make. And, in that sense, he is on the plus of most audio manufacturers. And in general, most high end audio manufacturers are 1/3 material cost to retail price, are worlds better than other industries...
I can say that it would be highly unlikely that anyone would use nothing, - if for nothing else, - to get their amp up off the floor a bit, and make sure that it wasn't affected by someone walking by......
I am sorry that you are so angry....
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
You are a "Dealer"! That explains your position. I should have known.
I am not, and I do not speak as such.....
Care to try again?
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
If you aren't a dealer, you should get the "(D)" removed from your moniker.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
As i have a long history here of posting only as an audiophile, it's very obvious that I've never written/spoken as a dealer. And, - I was posting an audiophile here for many years before my status changed.So, - it's all good. Asked and answered.
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
Edits: 05/03/12
"I can say that it would be highly unlikely that anyone would use nothing, - if for nothing else, - to get their amp up off the floor a bit, and make sure that it wasn't affected by someone walking by......"
Why would it be affected, does that really seem reasonable to you?
I find the premise that an ultra-expensive amplifier would still need extra coddling in a domestic environment to be absurd. What would you be paying for if not a competent design that can shrug off secondary problems like shock and Vib., EMC issues, and noisy power? After all, solid basic performance can be accomplished for <5% of that price.
But it's your hypothetical amplifier, not mine and I'm not mad in the least. Hypothetically however I might become so were I to buy one from you and find it to be excessively microphonic ;)
Rick
Does it seem unreasonable to you?
How much do you weigh? Do you know how much suspended wood flooring moves when you walk on it? Do you think that it's possible that the vibrations of the speakers could transfer along the wood flooring? Have you heard, or read about resonant frequency?
""I find the premise that an ultra-expensive amplifier would still need extra coddling in a domestic environment to be absurd""
Your charged words set up a straw man, that is what is absolutely absurd.
""After all, solid basic performance can be accomplished for <5% of that price.""
What price? Retail? Or what people pay? Have you ever heard any LAMM amps? Even though many can't afford them, I would hazard that most people that have heard them would say that their performance is way beyond most amps, even at the SAME price.
Don't you think that more people would be interested in your experience, then you're unqualified, bitter, and wrong-headed speculations?
""But it's your hypothetical amplifier, not mine and I'm not mad in the least. ""
I don't understand what you mean by hypothetical. I am not alone in my assessment of LAMM gear. Yes, it's your anger and bitterness that lead you to speculate, (with angry judgment), about something that you have no experience with, based on a pricing scheme that you are unwilling to understand, and tolerate.
I do not "sell" anything. And, - I do not make judgments about equipment that I haven't heard.
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
"Do you think that it's possible that the vibrations of the speakers could transfer along the wood flooring? Have you heard, or read about resonant frequency?"
Possible? Why it's a certainty! The issue to me is that this is just part of the normal environment and the amplifier should have sufficient immunity to not be bothered by it.
"I don't understand what you mean by hypothetical. I am not alone in my assessment of LAMM gear."
Oh, sorry. I didn't realize you were referring to a specific amplifier I thought you were using $80,000 as a price point. I wasn't familiar with LAMM so looked them up. I don't know which model you are thinking of since they don't post MSRP's but I looked at both ends and liked the looks and measurements of the hybrids. If there is significant microphony the tube is of course the first suspect since they are inclined to be rattly unless they use a frame grid. But it looks like a pretty solid design to me. Of course it's really impossible to know without testing the critters but I really doubt that you will hear footsteps through them.
"Don't you think that more people would be interested in your experience, then you're unqualified, bitter, and wrong-headed speculations?"
I offered no speculations, bitter or otherwise, merely outlined what I consider a reasonable level of performance. I'm not sure that you understand but it's clear that you don't agree, no problem, as they say nowadays...
Experience-wise in a half-century I don't recall ever having an overt problem with microphony in SS home audio gear nor subtle problems that would show up as sensitivity to placement. Outside of turntables of course... Even in the tube era it was uncommon and usually just a bad tube. It might have gotten worse in the last couple decades. By and large transistors and IC's fare a lot better with shock and Vib than tubes, but some of the newish SMT packages have gotten so tiny and weak that they expose the die to flexure and strain that just wasn't previously an issue. I've had to relocate the parts in a couple cases.
As far as shock and Vib in general goes, I've done my share of electronic stuff for rockets, airplanes, log trucks, forklifts, even artillery shells so home audio seems pretty tame somehow. External shock mounting should not be necessary and if it helps fixing the root cause will probably do even more. BUT, I do realize that's not an option for the end-user and "isolation" platforms are.
Good listening, Rick
and getting out of the way.
We don't know if we don't listen. Don't know where you live. Do you have a concrete floor?
Good isolation and vibration control carries with it benefits at many different levels. . I assume that you know this......and if you don't, - then I do feel bad for you. How would Victor Lamm ever be able to predict what kind of room, or to some degree, what types of associated equipment his amps get paired with? A "revealing" piece of equipment is also going to benefit from good isolation, or good coupling, just like your adcom/Nakamichi combo. What would he build into his amp?
Your judgment, without experience, is silly, if not unfair.
What you're saying is, "if a piece of audio gear can't sound good, and can't be worth it, because it's not worth it to me!" And, "if an amp is really expensive, it also better cook my breakfast for me in the morning."
For all you know those $80,000 amps, may sound exactly $77,950 better than your Nakamichi/Adcom combo...
My $30K retail system is "worth" it to me. I wouldn't have gotten as much enjoyment out of my favorite music as I do now. I could live with a cheaper system, (I am lucky). I also recognize that that $30,000 APL SOTA universal player/DAC/pre-amp is OUT of my price range. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't sound amazing, and much better than my $8K retail player. And, that it isn't absolutely "worth it" to someone else. Is it $22K better? Maybe not for me.... I definitely don't judge Lamborghini owners harshly either, unless they run me off the road, then, they're just inconsiderate jerks...
In matters of artistic interpretation and experience, how would you know if you did not try?
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
"Do you have a concrete floor?"
No, I don't and I'm very glad for it. My experience with taming concrete/stucco construction has been dismal. Although this house isn't very well constructed, I likely do have pretty good isolation to the gear just because they are in a closet off the living room right over a main load bearing beam.
"Your judgment, without experience, is silly, if not unfair."
But I have made NO judgment whatever, how could I without data? All I said is that, IMHO of course, an amplifier THAT expensive should have very good resistance to shock and Vib. I suspect that it does as it looks well constructed and the fact that they have gone to extra effort to isolate the core vibrations of the power transformer means that they are sensitive to these issues.
As far as discussions of price and sound, that's beyond me, I truly think they are very poorly correlated but perhaps the more expensive stuff is better on average. We could launch into a discussion of all that's wrong with relying on either price or specifications as the ultimate arbiter of performance but let's not. At least not now as I've got other fish to fry. I'd say my views are similar to most AA posters except that I'm not impressed by price as a reliable metric and I have no desire to go back to tubes.
By the way, this exchange might ultimately help improve my sound. Years ago Charles Hansen told me that I should damp the Nakamichi's heatsinks but I never got around to it. The other day I bumped one with something and it rang for a good five seconds. Contemplating the likely Vib. sensitivity of the LAMM yesterday it occurred to me that the output bugs were at least a possible point of susceptibility, albeit a low gain one, in SS gear as the process of thermally coupling the die to the sink mechanically couples them also. Sooo maybe I should try it? Of course I'll do the RIGHT thing and see if I can measure it first, it should be easy if it's there as the Q is bloody high enough...
By the way I choose gear by ear. Then I measure. Then I buy.
Rick
"It is our responsibility to act as the conduit for musical truth to clear the path to build the stage from which music reaches out to the soul."
The above is not only a run-on sentence, it's pure marketing gobbledegook.
What would you say about a guy who used to have aluminum foil stuck to the walls and the image coming out of the ceiling ?
Brian Walsh
...all of it refers to the guy who makes those stands.
Sorbothane is primarily intended for impact absorption, not steady state.
It reminds me of an old saying: "Give a man a hammer, and everything looks like a nail."
Brian Walsh
Audiophiles should save their old turntables and place their amps on them. Who knows. Perhaps marked improvement.
Cheers
Bill
Some might tell you "Buy a $10K amp instead, and throw all your shit on stolen milk crates." Or, "Source." Or, "Wire is wire." Or, "Only dumbasses buy tube gear... it measures like shit."
....not me, though. I haven't actually tried your combo. Might very well work better than my own setup. Even if it doesn't, why would it matter, as long as you and I were both happy?
Besides, what else can you spend your hobby dollars on, if you just dropped the better part of $300K on amps and speakers? ;0)
Life's much better if you caffeinate your squirrel
Someone claimed he placed a Bose Wave Radio on the thing, and it sounded like he was sitting in the eighth row at Boston Symphony Hall........
bravo-
may the bridges I burn light the way....
I'm pretty sure I can pick up a piece of the 1" steel plate they cover the road with during construction cheaper and it will probably do as good a job :^)
One can view the patent on the earlier version. To my knowledge the model shown in the link in the preceding post has tension bolts attached to the top platform and extending downward, as a means of pre-loading the platform, which reduces the height and eliminates catastrophic unexplained buckling (collapse) of the internal elements which sometimes occurred in the originals. "Other Publications" cited on the first page gives a significant clue to the basis of design.
Some people like them. They look nice.
Brian Walsh
for that money I will come over and personally hold your amp.
.......are wearing golf shoes!!!
;D
nt
nt
.
may the bridges I burn light the way....
My wife thinks I am gone completely nuts; I cant stop laughing thinking of Abraham attempting a sacrifice on Ampstand.
LOL
Bill
*
*
.
Like cables which cost more than the equipment..
.
Onions? not a problem, the 'chop-0-matic block' miracoulously eliminates tears!
may the bridges I burn light the way....
.
nt
I suspect he was just trolling, but it might have been a better troll if he had mentioned the amps instead of the stands.
the guy is just pointing out the foley in such an absurdly priced piece of equipment. Got some pretty humorous responses.
OTOH, I was hoping that Elizabeth would list one of hers on A'gon so that I could bid on it.
,
you know what his intentions were?
I see no point in posting a link to something and then have no comment.
That amount of money is nothing to some people, they spend more than that on a meal or a night in a hotel or a bottle of wine.
So to be perfectly clear, I find these posts about how expensive something is a complete waste of time........
.
Hey bwb, five grand on a meal? I'm hoping you'll invite me to dinner. Can I choose the restaurant?
In fact, Howard and I do have a psychic connection however due to atmospheric conditions I seemed to have lost contact with him.
I think we all know that the exorbitant cost of the "creme de la creme" in audio gear is through the roof and into the stratosphere. Just read the ongoing letters to the editor in TAS and Stereophile from people who seem to take personal offense to even publishing reviews of these unattainable items for most mortals.
Who cares? They're still fun to read about.
Atmospheric conditions! LOL!
Bill
.
Since a five grand meal was not good enough for you I'm retracting my offer and replacing it with a McDonald Happy Meal. You get to keep the toy.
BTW, I'm having the $1,000 pizza for lunch. I wonder if mushrooms are extra. I'll let you know how it is.
One hundred years from now that amp stand will still be working just as well as it does today! Can you say the same for your electronics? Seems like a deal to me!
Let's touch base one hundred years from now and see if your premise is correct.
If it is I owe you a five grand meal.
I was perfectly happy with my Billy Bags amp stands that I sold when we down sized. They only cost around a couple of hundred bucks so I guess they didn't sound as good as the $5700
Actually the isolation stand he linked to is one the cheaper high end stands. See the irony?
Edits: 05/01/12
I heard that combination at CES--I've commented on the sound on another thread current.
forgettable
Des
Do you always comment on the "sound" of stands?
But the sum total of the parts.
In this case bland
Sorry to offend
Des
that he does because he can, that he is sufficiently familiar with the components to do so? Des has been around a long time, in and out of the industry, and has a good ear and, in my opinion, good judgment.
Brian Walsh
Aw shucks Brian you make me feel old
coz I am!
Des
Are you putting me on here?
Brian Walsh
You need more help than I can provide then!
Maybe I should start a business called Q-Tips 'R Us!
Brian Walsh
With that price one would think they should float off the floor
Someone ...somewhere will buy them
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