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I'm familiar with Ayre, but have heard some of the bigger
names in American Hi-End audio are going over to china.
It's bad enough that D&M owns McIntosh & Marantz. You can't
tell me it's not all being sourced in macro-components over seas.
Krell is even now making it's S-300i in china, I was excited
about it until then.
As far as I know my Vandersteen 2ce's are all American.
What are some great HiFi brands still made entirely in the U.S.??
You only have two ears.
Follow Ups:
- Placette
- Walker Audio
- Channel Islands
- Headroom
- Antenna Performance Specialties
Coda,Innersound
Figure that due to mergers, we've got global companies like Sprague-Mallory-Roederstein-Vishay, and key semiconductors could be made in any number of locations around the world, and much of that was true 25+ years ago too.
Not sure if these are made entirely in the USA...
Aerial Acoustics
Aperion Audio
BAT
Mark Levinson
Parasound
PS Audio
Resolution Audio
Silverline Audio
Tyler Acoustics
YG Acoustics
Oddly enough, and I didn't plan it this way, most of the stuff I use actually WAS made in North America. I don't think it's worth getting in a tizzy about it, but there is something unappealing about using stuff that comes out of a third world sweatshop. I know it's not completely unavoidable and I know they have to live too, but if I have a choice I'll buy a product made by free men and women over a cheaper product made by what amount to slaves any day of the week. Cost be damned, I want my dollars supporting free democracies and republics and not military dictatorships and communist regimes.
Also Cary and Aubible Illusions are still US companies I believe. Its a global world and dont think much of anything can be called completly domestic anymore. Maybe not completly sourced or assembled in the states but the brain trust is still here.
Assembled in China. Atleast my 303-300 was, which is now approaching 4 yrs of age. Can't imagine much has changed in 4 years.
I have one also and agree the 303/300 is not fully assembled domestically however I do believe that Cary still maintians its quality control and some manufacturing domesticly.
Unfortunatly the high cost of US labor has driven a large percentage of all manufacturing elsewhere.
Are you more concerned about the gear being "American Made" or that the company be "American Owned"? There are many products that originate from foreign owned companies that are made by American workers. Doesn't McIntosh still qualify as "American Made"?
My Main Setup:
Mac Mini music server. Well, it's designed in the USA by a US based company but assembled in China so maybe this one doesn't count.
Audio Research vacuum tube linestage made in USA
Manley Neo-Classic 250 vacuum tube monoblocks made in USA
Thiel CS2.4 speakers made in USA
Interconnects and speaker cables made in the USA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Other Setup:
Accuphase DP-65v CD player made in Japan
Denon DVD5900 universal player made in Japan
Pass Labs INT-150 integrated amp made in USA
Tannoy Definition D500 speakers made in the UK
Interconnects and speaker cables made in the USA
all top shelf products and made in the US.
I would guess that most of them do not have even 20 full time employees. Some have 3 or less actual employees. I think many audiophiles would be surprised. This is not a criticism. I like small firms where the designer actually builds the product. It's not as rare as you might think.
Oh, Don't forget Conrad Johnson! Both are Ph.D economists by training.
"Live free or die"
d
the Chinese workers? The Chinese are not distracted and can concentrate on work.No big political debates, no ball games and betting pools,no coffee breaks and water coolers,no girl friends to worry about.No worry about medical bills,mortgages,stocks and shares,second cars and gas prices,rebelling teenagers.Do that soldering work properly,collect half the dollars that the American worker gets and go home happily in the company bus.No wonder those big Yankee bosses come flying.
Where did you get your knowledge of China? Almost everything you believe about China and the Chinese people is absurdly wrong. To cite just one example, you think the Chinese aren't concerned with medical bills. The reality is that they're extremely worried about the problem:
The Chinese have a high savings rate -- indeed, an absurdly high savings rate, between 30 percent and 40 percent of income -- and one of the reasons is fear of medical expenses. China lacks a safety net, and so people spend less because they need to plan for catastrophe. And if catastrophe doesn't befall, then they've simply spent less.
Your odd notion that there are no sports or betting in China is equally wrong. It's been estimated that the Chinese bet $100 billion on soccer alone in 2007. The Chinese government has run national lotteries since 1987 and last year launched the China Sports Lottery which is based on soccer scores. China has a professional soccer league, televised European soccer matches are viewed by hundreds of millions, and basketball is probably as popular.
You're equally wrong that the Chinese don't worry about "mortgages,stocks and shares." China has had several stock exchanges for a couple of decades. In 2007 China's stock exchanges were briefly the second largest in the world, measured by turnover, as a result of a speculative trading frenzy in that nation. The Chinese have mortgage and home ownership problems just like we do. Here's a quote from a New York Times article from 2 years ago:
In newly rich Shenzhen, as in much of China, social change is being driven by economic transformation and, more than anything else, property ownership.
Red-hot real estate markets have given birth to a new class of people, known as mortgage slaves, because the financial burden of buying into the middle-class dream of home ownership has suddenly become so great.
That's just a few examples. You seem to think that China is a nation of emotionless communist automatons who do nothing but sleep and manufacture stuff for Wal - Mart. The reality is that it is a complex, vibrant society of people who are a lot like you.
government is not like ours.China wants us to see what they want us to see.At last they have started buying houses!40 of my friends went on a tour and the guide told them not to ask any questions about Tiananmen or about Mao.Showed them the new buildings,trains,highways and sold them shirts and golf clubs dirt cheap and packed them back.No visiting the villages or talking to ordinary people.After all we capitalists love dictators and totalitarians while preaching democracy.Pinochet anyone?
Your friends had a crappy guide, that's all. I've been to China twice and visited rural peasant farm communities on each trip. In each case my guide was a state employee!
If your friends wanted to see ordinary people all they had to do was leave their hotel and walk around. Tourists aren't restricted to hotels and planned itineraries. Your complaint that the guide didn't take your friends to see squalor is, frankly, ridiculous. Of course China wants the world to see its better features. Can you name one country that proudly shows off it's worst aspects? Would you expect a tour guide in the US to take a group of visiting Chinese tourists to an impoverished, meth - riddled Appalachian town?
Many Chinese speak a little English and are eager to practice it with a native speaker. Nobody ever told me I couldn't talk to someone or to avoid certain subjects. No, I didn't ask anyone about Tiananmen or Mao's crimes because I know that those are sensitive subjects and I had no interest in intentionally offending people. How would you feel if a Chinese tourist came up to you and started berating you about the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment or the internment of Japanese - Americans in WW2?
China has changed,obviously.I am still biased because of what they did to Tibet and India forced to give protection to Dalai Lama.And then India's great friend Zhou en lai invades India!And then comes the Pol Pot like cultural revolution.I am prejudiced against all totalitarian attitudes.I cannot pardon what they did in Tiananmen Square.The present Govt would do it again.Who will check them? They support the worst military junta in the world,the one in Mynamar.Well,I auditioned 2 Canadian and 3 US speakers last month.All were made in China.Good for business.
But two things are sure without fear of racist stereotyping: The intellectual property and environmental laws, or especially practices, are weaker in most developing countries there.
not the murder van.
It proceeds to the Tiananmen Square.
...Maybe he'll get into MIT or the Curtis Institute of Music."
thanks for setting me straight!
You obviously have great insight into how things are in China.
Thanks for sharing!
"...You're all welcome to stay for the next set...we're going to play all the same tunes, but in different keys..." -Count Basie
.
Beatnik's stuff http://web.me.com/jnr1/Site/Beatniks_Pictures.html
Sound Lab electrostatic speakers are perhaps the finest in the world and they are made in a very small town in Utah (Gunnison, population about 1500.) They are the creation of Dr. Roger West, a graduate of Stanford University who has been producing and improving them for over 25 years. They are an outstanding product and a company who has always stood behind what they make and are dedicated to treating their customer right. Granted, I am a dealer, but I would not sell a product I did not firmly believe in. If you want something great that is made in America, you can not do better!
nt
Ohm, Hornshoppe and KCS Designs.
*
Oops, sorry.
Aloha,
Poinz
AudioTropic
.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
..
Bel Canto is 100% USA.
I support companies that are American. Even my undergarments are all USA made (it's hard to find clothing nowadays made in the USA, but it exists :)
I don't mind paying more for more.
Quicksilver Audio.
Sonist speakers are mostly made in the US.
Sonist loudspeakers are made in the U.S., cabinets are made in Southern California, loading is done in SoCal, everything is made and fabbed in U.S., except the Fountek JP3.0 ribbon tweeters, which are made in China.Best regards, Randy - Sonist Loudspeakers
Edits: 01/26/09 01/26/09 01/26/09 01/26/09 01/26/09
Though in an ever shrinking world more dependant upon a global economy, is any company entirely 100% "American" all the way down the line?
"...You're all welcome to stay for the next set...we're going to play all the same tunes, but in different keys..." -Count Basie
I think their products are still made in the USA.
The Canucks are our friends. The Japanese actually are too. The Brits and
Germans are our friends. And although one might suspect otherwise
sometimes, the French are too.
Consider: Magnepan, Martin Logan, Wadia, Boulder, Avalon, BAT, Conrad
Johnson. All made here or in a friendly country. And so far as I know,
under American ownership. McIntosh product is also made here so far as
I know, even though the company is not USA owned anymore.
My own strategy is to avoid Chinese made product as far as possible, and
to buy American made product as much as possible.
Mike
Canada has more manufacturers than you'd expect given its relatively low population, especially when it comes to speakers. Off-hand, a few speaker companies are PSB, Paradigm, Totem, Verity, and API (Energy, Mirage). Electronics manufacturers include Bryston, SimAudio, Classé, Sonic Frontiers/Anthem.
Sonic Frontiers has been out of business for a decade
API which is Athena , Energy , and Mirage is now owned by Klipsch
Last time I checked Klipsch was American
and most Canadian speakers are sadly made over seas now
It's too bad Sonic Frontiers died, and wasn't more consistent with their quality. They made some good amps and CD players. Their successor Anthem seems to be doing well with a somewhat down-market line. Anthem, Bryston, SimAudio, and Classé all do their R&D and manufacturing in Canada.
I'd forgotten about Klipsch buying API, so technically they are an American company. Unfortunately, you're right about their speakers now being made in China. At least the R&D is still in Canada.
Paradigm is probably the only speaker company still making and assembling components and drivers in Canada. Even PSB has started off-shoring some components.
Tyler Acoustics produce some fabulous speakers systems. No doubt they source raw drivers elsewhere but they are shipping American creativity.
There is no such thing as a purely American ( or Canadian for that matter) product anymore.
Products, environment and the economy are global.
To think otherwise is well, comforting but unrealistic.
Bill.
How about some Canadian hi fi? just think American with a hockey stick
www.bryston.com
www.simaudio.com
www.classe.com
and it's actually made by people who get a livable wage !
Does Vandersteen use American made drivers? Quite a few American speaker companies make systems here but with foreign made drivers.
Thiel speakers are made in Kentucky, they make drivers in plant.
Great Plains Audio (GPA) makes high quality drivers in Oklahoma.
Eminence makes drivers in Kentucky, many manufacturers use Eminence drivers.
JBL makes much of their pro stuff in the USA.
IIRC, Great Plains purchased the old Altec tooling. Eminence is American as far as I know.
Vandersteen has several patents on the drivers he uses and although he may employ subcontractors to build his drivers, I believe it is no worse than Thiel. These days, it seems virtually impossible to find a speaker manufacturer which doesn't employ voice coils wound by someone else or cones manufactured by someone else. Most so called manufacturers are merely assemblers, purchasing subassemblies from elsewhere.
One manufacturer I spoke to admitted that he believed 95% of the speaker driver production is based in the Orient. A quick glance through older issues of Voice Coil magazine shows that the majority of the manufacturers listed are based in the Orient, the few American ads are usually for machinery or specialized chemicals ( Loctite, for example). In fact, today even European manufacturers are establishing plants in China and I see this in Dynaudio boxes which list China as being a source of their drivers. The same source told me that since NEAR closed their plant ( old Bozak factory) virtually all metal driver cones are from the Orient.
The farming out of manufacture has had some unexpected benefits, however. Chinese manufacture means that manufacturers can use certain glues and chemicals not capable of being cheaply utilized in the US or Europe or Japan. I see this in the SEAS p17 six inch woofer which used what seemed to be a double stick tape kind of glue for the surround to cone. This particular woofer become constantly delaminated, but when the cone subassembly production moved to China, it enabled the company to revert back to good old fashioned cement.
I believe much of the JBL drivers are now built in Taiwan, IIRC. Ever since the Northridge earthquake which ran directly under the JBL factory, they have had to comply with the strict California environmental laws since their grandfather clause no longer applies. After the earthquake the JBL professional recone kits seems to have disappeared for the most part. Replacement parts, once readily available simply disappeared, and the old JBL recone kits were extremely nice, and very complete from dust caps to the glue and the lead out wiring.
One mark of Chinese manufacture is that replacement parts are sometimes much more expensive than replacement drivers. It is interesting to note that Vandersteen will rebuild any driver used in any of his designs from the very first models, from refoaming to replacement of voice coils.
Stu
Since KCS has been doing this for near 17 years now. I have seen drivers built in other country's move production to China. Many of these drivers that used to meet spec are no longer such close matches. I have found many problems with new Chinese sourced drivers. Not meeting spec not working;) poor build quality. With costly ribbons I have found more than once that the ribbons where assembled with human hairs hanging out kind of Gross. I have never found even a cheap eminence to be out of spec or poorly built. For Chinese only the very costly drivers are meeting spec I was rejecting many Chinese built parts now I only use a few Chinese drivers and try to avoid Chinese parts. Many of the Chinese binding posts were snapping due to voids in metal. I have also seen factory reps from major manufacturers having to check in field Chinese produced drivers and rejecting near 50% this is after they where at distributor. The Chinese cabinets I have check out are MDF and smell toxic. I could save 60% of my cab cost this includes shipping from China but then I get smelly poorly built Chinese MDF with materials from unsustainable harvests. I will stick to quality plys sourced from sustainable forests.Where the folks who build are paid fair and the construction of this ply doesn't so pollute the world like Chinese plys and MDF. More to this than just saving money if you buy Chinese you also cause job lose in US and much more pollution. Is it worth it to save a buck or so. To end up with a poorly built product with materials sourced in the most destructive ways made by folks who work for next to nothing and live in massive pollution due to no government controls? Seems to many Audiophiles name means more than build or parts used. If your favorite name brands now made in China do you care?
Since more manufacturing is being outsourced to China, what choices do we as consumers have, especially if the manufacturers are not checking their quality control? I believe a lot of fault lies with the distributors and so-called manufacturers.
The Chinese can make quality products, however. I dealt with Athena, a division of API, and had virtually zero defect rate (the only defect was a pair which arrived with the grill mounting inserts slightly off center). I later found the reason for the excellent QC was that API approached the manufacturer and had a contract that stated that if the failure rate approached 5%, they would not pay for the entire shipment. Their failure rate is 0.5% lower than the product manufactured in Canada.
I do believe that much of your environmental concerns in regards to the woods used are spurious as most of the wood is sourced from Russia or the West. I am not condoning their manufacturing processes which do add to the pollution of the world, however. Indeed all MDF utilizes formaldehyde in its production and there are lots of warnings about the release of that chemical in places like Home Depot. Chinese natural resources are extremely limited and any concerns about the source of their material can be traced to other countries.
Implicit in that statement is the fact that Chinese manufacturing processes are often not up to par with products from the Free World. I refuse to use Chinese tube sockets, for example because the material used is so soft the contact pressure simply fails after a while. Someone once complained that many caps are consistently measured at the lower end of their tolerance scale and not to printed ratings. Chinese resisters are simply not as good as a product from Dale, etc. I am quite aware of the issues of Chinese manufacture. I am also aware that Western distributors often incorporate very poor QC practices. Those who do not inspect suffer the consequences.
Stu
Much of the Chinese PLY MDF is imported from country's not using sustainable methods. I do not use MDF in any of our designs. I use ply from Finland or US Canada sometimes Baltic. The plys from China de laminate. Just junk from the start. Sure you can build product of quality in China but at what cost to the world? I researched manufacturers KCS uses. And if Chinese I check into how they treat workers etc. A few companies in China are forth coming with info and do treat workers right Founteks one. I know its a world market but doing business means trust and if you can not trust and have to always check everything why not buy from a manufacturer distributor you can trust. With most Chinese product I have little trust that it meets spec will work without troubles, its not made of toxins. Thus I pass, if Chinese product was made proper, workers paid treated fair,and extra pollution was not caused by construction. I would be back its not about race just about business, fairness doing things right not just making a buck..
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