|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
64.9.235.29
I'm not getting very far in finding some answers and opinions on THE BEST headphone amp and phones out there. I already have the Headroom maxed home and sennheizer hd 600s and I'm not at all satisfied. What do the new generation of STAX combos sound Like????
Any info would be most appreciated.
Tom B.
Follow Ups:
I have two Yamamoto HA-02 headphone amps which are tube amps using the WE408a tube. This is a pentode set up as a SEP amp with no feedback. The sound is very sweet. I am using either a Ultrasone Edition 9 or a modified Ultrasone HFI-780 by ALOaudio using Jenna Labs 18g cryo cable with internal modifications. Both setups have the Lavry DA10 as a source. One is located at my computer which uses the M-Audio USB Audiophile or HagTech USB-XLR as an input to the Lavry. The other setup at my Easy Chair uses a Squeezebox V3 with it's optical out into it's Lavry DA10. Below is a review of the Yamamoto HA-02.
I guess you can conclude that I am very satisfied with the Lavry and Yamamoto since I have two each.
I like the idea. And from looking at your system, I'd wager you'd be happier with a tube headphone amp.
jh
There are really two crowds, there: the poor and young who far outnumber the audiophile types. I recently read a thread about a $20,000 electrostatic headphone amp that Mikhail over at Single Power builds. It was gorgeous, but $20,000!
Greetings from the sunny Brønshøj riveria on the banks of the lovely Utterslev Mose
I'm sure he can put more stuff in it and make it worth $40,000. :-)
go here:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/
The Head-fi.org crowd, great as they are, seem mostly interested in small, portable amps. I'm more interested in the headphone world from the perspective of Asylum audiophiles.
There is no such thing as "THE BEST" in anything, especially in something as subjective as audio. I've not read through the follow-ups, but I'm sure someone has recommended that you visit head-fi.org. Those guys/gals are absolutely nuts about everything headphone.
Good luck in your search.
There is no "best", as this is dependent on personal taste.
And what is best? What I may like may not fit your needs. Buy an RSA B-52 balanced preamp/headphone amp and get some Sony R10's balanced and throw in some HD650's in balanced. That should be fun. For tubes in the B-52 go with the Tungsol 5687 from the late 1950's and a selection for the other tubes. Should be bliss, but that in my opinion.
The Elaborate DAC=Johnny's Balloon Meshplate 27 Balanced Preamp=Balanced Six Pacs=Newform Research 645see images at: www.pbase.com/jamato8
John,
LOL........I've been listening to tube audio systems for 16 years. First with CJs and then finally with my Bottlehead 2A3 Triode amps in 2001. With that said.....I didn't understood 90% of what you were saying!!! I looked at your page that contained the Woo amps. Those big fat tubes look to be 300Bs...or maybe 2A3s, or even 45s........but none of those numbers you list says anything about what the hell they are.
Which reminds me........I've checkout a bunch of candidates which claim to be pure Triode class/ Push-Pull???????????? I'm sorry, but PP amps are not the least enticing to me.....neither do pentodes designs. I don't even like those beautiful Cary 300Bs. Why did they have to make them put out 15 watts. They should be running at about 8 watts!!!
All this playing around with what should be "flea-powered amps" is to accomidate less efficient speakers. People should embrace the "Triode aesthetic" and be done with it..........single drivers or horns....and to hell with the WAF (spoken by divorced man of 12 years and loving it).
Er...deviating there a bit. I'm having a difficulty finding what I want and can afford. I listen to classical music for the most part on vinyl. I have a love affair with the whole format. My 12K TT set up(most of that are carts)is incredibly capable of capturing the detail and space surrounding an instrument. I'm a mid-frequency freak.....that explains the 2A3. That is the kind of clarity and nuance I'm looking for in a headphone experience.
I hope that explains something of what I'm getting at.
Regards'. Tom B.
and it all depends upon how much you want to spend. Do you want to stay with tubes or go solid state? The top line Rudistor headphone amps are very good. The Woo 5 is very good, the RSA b-52, well there are a number but again it depends upon price range. What headphones for the final setup. I have the HD650's and enjoy them but to me they aren't the most transparent but do well balanced. Some of the Ultrasone headphones are very enjoyable and I am getting a pair of the limited production Edition 9 soon. The Grado phones are too much in the face for my liking.
I have loved horn speakers for years, once they are done right.
The Elaborate DAC=Johnny's Balloon Meshplate 27 Balanced Preamp=Balanced Six Pacs=Newform Research 645
see images at: www.pbase.com/jamato8
I agree with John, the Rudistor is a great amp, I got a RPX-100 to replace a Sugden Headmaster, which is quite well regarded too, but a different animal anyway. The balanced output models would allow you trying the HD600 in balanced mode, which not only sounds different (IMHO better) but also MEASURES better.
The main point here would be knowing what do you miss or would like to tame in your current headphone setup. Knowing this and the music you will be listening, would improve our chance to suggest things that might interest you.
Regards
I shuffle about in Headfi every now and again, but I do like it in the Asylum more, not sure why.
At the moment I do alot of listening on headphones, Beyer DT880's driven by an MF X-cans V3 with the PSU as well. This is mainly from the PC but would love to try it from my Vinyl rig more often.
I had some work done on my CD player a while back and the engineer I went to see was modifying new Stax headphone to make them a bit less glassy at the top end. So whilst he worked on my player I listened to his headphones, and it made me realise that I was still small league when it comes to cans.
We live in hope.
Have fun,
K
Hi Tom,
Perhaps you can elaborate on how you are not satisfied with the sound (too warm, too thin, rolled off, etc.)?
Are you looking for a sound that matches your current SET/high-eff system (which must be warm and smooth) or that complements it (i.e. by giving you a bit more of an edge)?
I like warm and smooth, so after quite a bit of experimentation, I found headphone nirvana with a Sennheiser HD580 (Jubilee model) and a Bottlehead S.E.X. (Single Ended Experimenter). I also use the SET with a pair of AKG K1000s, but I far prefer the warmer and more forgiving Sennheisers on most recordings.
Alberto
PS I am in MtView (Googleville) too. Perhaps we can organize a get-together one of these days.
Alberto,
I'd love to see and listen to your Bottlehead headamp. If I can't find a big bottle amp..ie 300b...2A3, 45...in true triode mode....I defintely would give Doc's amp with the Transformer upgrade a chance.
Tom B.
You'll have a tough time finding a big bottle DHT amp that runs headphones well. They just aren't quite quiet enough. It interesting to note, however, that the output section of each tube in the SEX amp is electrically equivalent to a type 45.... which a lot of people go ape sh!t over (but it's indirectly heated, therefore quieter).
-Paul
Thanks' for some good definitive answers Paul!!! Do you know anybody up in the Great Northwest that assembles Bottlehead stuff??? If I'm not mistaken, Doc used to offer such a service from someone. The Paraglows that I have were built by two friends of mine and even John Tucker set me up with some stand by switches after I blew up a 1947 RCA blackplate.....aaarrrgh.
I suffer from CFS and just not up to the physical challenge. I read books for 6 hours a day and then listen to Schoenberg & Beethoven and the gang for the remainder of the day....thats' it......other than dragging my body over to a few good friends places to listen to their audio rigs.
Any info greatly appreciated.
Tom B.
I'm actually taking over the building process for Ed Fallon. I have the 1st customer kit sitting behind me, a Seduction waiting for Auricaps. Doc will have a page up in the next 7-21 days explaining everything. I am also offerring powder coating on the top plates. It also looks as though I will take on 10-30% of the incoming repairs.
-Paul
Paul,
Thats' great news!! It sounds like you're going to be a busy boy.
Bottleheads' headamp with the upgraded Iron just looks like the amp that beats out the competition. I found 2 or 3 $2000 models that looked good for electrostatics phones, but I have HD 600s....could get a pair of AKG 701...they could even be made balanced.....but it appears I don't have enough $$$$.........THAT'S why the SEX experimentor headamp with that beautiful Iron seems like the best bet for somebody that doesn't have a zillion dollars handy.
Before I get a deluge of other options.....remember...I LOVE TUBES and REALLY GREAT IRON!!
Tom B.
Yes, I definately agree that the SEX is tough to beat. Honestly, Doc and I put my balaned amp up against his studio amp, and the balanced amp still fell behind in sonics. If your budget permits, I would also recommend the V-Caps instead of the Auricaps. I believe Doc took best sound in show at RMAF in '04 with a tape/headamp combo laced with V-caps... it's just tough to beat. I will give myself a little credit, however, that the balanced amp that I built has a nice balance between solid state style slam and tube smoothness, but the SEX amp itself is simply a better design with absolutely black background.
-Paul
Umm, that was RMAF 2004 (Six Moons), and I think Srajan was referring to the $10K headphone amp that was in the room. CES 2007 Best Sound (TAS) was the Magico room where we had a tape machine and Seduction, but no S.E.X.
I did some editting... hopefully it's correct as it sits now.
-Paul
The "V-caps" are duly noted. Thanks' Paul.
Tom B.
I seriously think we should have a headphone forum here. Only a few participants on the other headphone-related sites seem to realize what high fidelity and critical listening is!
Furthermore, a good majority of the products currently available fail to meet true hi-fi standards.
For the record, I use a pair of JVC HA-D990's with the headphone output of my Accuphase E-202. This integrates headphone output isn't nearly as good as my world-beating C-240 preamp's dedicated headphone amp (which is by far the best!), but it easily betters 95% of the all the offerings available.
Likewise for my JVC's.
*Furthermore, a good majority of the products currently available fail to meet true hi-fi standards.*
Can you care to elaborate?
I seriously doubt you can set any *standard* for a hifi.
It's a broad church.
HeadFi.org doesn't cut it for the golden-eared. You have a long journey ahead of you in the quest of sonic perfection.
If some day you reach this level of discriminate maturity, you will understand my position.
You are the shining example of *discriminating maturity*, I hope I will never grow up.
One thing I've noticed, tho, intolerance is a sign of aging. ( not necessarily a maturity ).
That he's pulling your leg.
Now enough with the ageism already least I whack you with my ear horn.
Rick
Careful kuma, I doubt you meet true hi-fi standards either. You are a woman after all ;)
*You are a woman after all *
How do you know?Seriously, I don't see any need for a head-fi forum here. Just about the only criticism I have is that it is an insanely busy site with too many advertising around the board.
I think you are right. Head-fi serves its purpose this place serves its own. The times that a question needs to be answered regarding headphones someone is more than welcomed to post it in the various sections if they can't find they answer over at Head-fi (or even if they can and just don't want to register there).
Of course, AA can do what it wants, I just don't know how busy it would be.
where more ppl. are looking for a high-quality head fone set up.
( could be a part of downsizing swing )
So, any AA inmates who do not wish to navigate through messy headfi site can benefit.
I am not certain how many of posters here are headfone savvy, tho.
The Manley Neo-Classic 300B preamp is also an amazing headphone amp and probably one of the best out there. Too bad there's absolutely no talk about. With the Sennheiser HD650 it's an exceptional combo!
a
NT
I have four headphone amps:
1.Single Power MPX3 SLAM SE - great tube rig that allows me to use no fewer than 40 different types of tubes!
2.Maple Tree Audio Purist HD+ - a small gorgeous sounding tube amp, a best buy
3.Blue Circle Solid State SBH with Preamp - Budrew has already commented upon this
4.Meier Audio 2MOVE - a portable amp that can be hooked to the USB output of a computer or the analogue output of an MP3 player, walkman, etc
I have 3 headphones:
1. AKG K-701
2. Sennheiser DH-595 high impedance model
3. AKG K-171 DJ sealed phones
Cables:
1 Sennheiser
2 moon audio black dragon
Greetings from the sunny Brønshøj riveria on the banks of the lovely Utterslev Mose
As mentioned, headfi.org is the place to go for all things headphone.
Personally,I use a Singlepower model PPX3 (with 6cg7 tubes) and a pair
of Senn HD600 cans. I'm quite enamored of the sound I get. Singlepower's
website is www.singlepower.com, and no, I'm not affiliated. I just like
the product.
Mike
There's very little info about what the circuit is in those. Have you popped the cover to take a look? The 6SN7/6CG7, IMO, kinda lacks the balls to drive high impedance headphones, but this depends on how it's implemented.
-Paul
I have not had a look inside. I would not really know what I'd be
looking at anyway.
The unit is supposed to be able to drive a wide range of 'phones
comfortably, but I cannot speak from experience on this point. I've
been very happy with my Senn HD 600s.
If you are interested, the owner of the company has in the past been
quite willing to speak personally with potential purchasers. So
if you're interested, drop an email or give a call. He is (was,
when I was buying) a nice guy.
Mike
People seem to like the Headfi forum, but I would say there's minimal engineering knowledge over there. People tout the Chinese Woo headphone amps that use some pretty aweful parts (electrolytic caps as coupling caps). You might consider DIY. I've owned a couple of headroom products, and I generally prefer what I can get out of tubes more.
-Paul
That's a lovely looking bit of kit.
Is that a full balanced output to the phones, I have always wanted to hear how much that changes things.
Another day perhaps, I'll strugggle on with the Beyers X cans combi for now.
Have fun,
K
Hell, I don't even have a schematic for this on paper yet. It's balanced in and balanced out, with no transformers or converters. Oddly enough, I still had to use DC on the 6922's, as there was still some noise even with the cancellation.
-Paul
... must be a UK slang thing... a nice looking bit of kit is a fond term for a generally lovely item, but something that not the usual run of the mill thing.
I might have to investigate a balanced headphone system as my main rig is ballanced all the way, but over here specialist headphone things are a bit rare.
I will have to do some more surfing when funds allow such a thing.
Enjoy
K
Have you been to the DIY board? There is plenty of engineering knowledge there. I would wager that there are far more engineers on that site than this one. Now then, does the average Head-fier know as much as the average Inmate? Maybe not because the population here is older and have been into the hobby longer. But collectively there is no doubt that there is an abundance of technical knowledge at that site.
I couldn't quite make out the brand of your valve amp. Could you elaborate? It really seems to be the concenses that I'm going to have to leave the HD 600s behind.
If you see my Nottingham/ Graham 2.2/ IC-70 phono cables/ Urishi & Ruby II LOMC cartridges.........when listening through the 2A3s and Abbys I get tremendous detail and clarity in the mid frequencies. It's my systems strength. I listen to far more classical than anything else.
I know that listening through phones is a completely different experience, but I feel that the clarity and detail could still shine through with the right set-up. I'm not getting anything close to that presently.
Thank's for the feedback and the pic. What's that name again???
Tom B.
I built the phono pre for myself, there is no brand name attached. You might consider purchasing a pair of AKG K-1000's and a 300B amp with DC heaters to get what I think you're after.
-Paul
headfi.org is the place for headphones, I think that is why there was never a headphone forum created here. It would be interesting to have a headphone forum here though, since sometimes I suspect that the people on headfi are listening to .mp3's for their comparisons.
There are a lot of options with headphone listening. Looking at your system, which is all tubes, I suspect you would be better served by having a tubed headphone amplifier. A pair of AKG K1000's (discontinued) might be interesting with your SET amps (they use regular speaker amplifiers, not headphone amps). They are expensive, usually about $1000 used because of their scarcity, but they don't require a separate headphone amplifier.
I like the AKG 701's better than the Senn's that I've heard (except the Orpheus). You could try getting a pair of 701's and see if they are what you're looking for.
A lot of people like Grado's, they might be worth investigating as well.
Good luck in your search.
-Aaron.
"headfi.org is the place for headphones, I think that is why there was never a headphone forum created here. It would be interesting to have a headphone forum here though, since sometimes I suspect that the people on headfi are listening to .mp3's for their comparisons."
Somtimes people over here listen to mp3's as well. Nothing wrong with that. However, the vast majority of folks at Head-fi are all over lossless files if possible (in fact the Head-fi computer and portable fourms where lossless is mostly discussed are among the most active boards on the site and not just that site but all sites dealing with digital audio).
Also, most folks are using at least RBCD or SACD if not moving to vinyl. Vinyl has a great following at Head-fi despite the fact that Headphones destroy speakers in terms of resolution, where one would assume pops and clicks would be a deal breaker for most.
The overall population at Head-fi is young no doubt but their vigor for the hobby is probably unparalleled. It is ranked as the most active English speaking audio site according to Alexia (whatever that is worth ;)
I'd guess it depending on the 'phones and speakers, but via a W5k, it makes the pops and clicks far leass than via WATT 6.What's your finding with your Grado vis EAR?
If I were to compare with IEM's like Etymotic 4 series or the Westone UM2's I would say that on a clean record there are no problems with clicks and pops. Dirty records or scratched/damaged ones will sound truly heinous. This doesn't improve with any of my Grados and the EAR. The resolution is abundant and so again, if the record hasn't been cleaned, it could get nasty, to the point of being unlistenable to me anyway.
I have been lucky though of my 2000 records I'd say only 1% were truly unlistenable to the point of just trashing them. Another 5% are filled with pops and clicks but are worth the rice crispies. the rest of my vinyl is either quiet or nearly so throughout so I can't complain too much.
I ventured over to Head-Fi.org 4 years ago because my first-born was on the way, and I thought that would be the end of me listening to speakers (at the volume level that I want). I ended up with 5 pairs of headphones and 4 amps.
My experience over at Head-Fi.org:
1/ It's encouraging to see a lot of young kids caring about sound quality;
2/ It was an eye-opening experience to see that there are just as many different headphone options as speakers;
3/ There are as many crazy people over there as over here;
4/ $30k CD play back system + $20k amp + $5k headphone + another $10k on cables and accessories! Yes, there are, apparently not just a few, people out there VERY dedicated to headphones...
5/ You will never get a concensus on anything as there are tons of fans of each product out there;
6/ But you get to hear things first hand at these local meets and make up your own mind.
7/ Check out some tube amps coming out of China. They don't seem to get too much publicity on Head-Fi.org these days, but I don't think you can get better deals in the sub $1k category.
My assumption turned out to be wrong, and my son either listens with me or sleeps through it. So I've been back listening to my speakers. The headphone gears are still there in my study room. I get to use them from time to time when I am working.
Tom, are you still in Mt. View? Feel free to come listen to my headphone gears if you are interested. I work from home 4 days every week.
FrankC
Thank's Frank with your kind offer. Yes, I'm still here in sunny Mt View (Googleville)!! I'm just starting to look about. I am biased towards very well built tube amps in the 2K range that I could still use my HD 600s with. I can't afford to buy both at the present time!
Tom B.
I use a Blue Circle SBH headphone amp with HD650s and love it. A few years ago I also had a Stax headamp and after a long period of comparison decided I preferred the sound of the Sennheisers with a good amp (at the time I had a Grace 901 headamp - the Blue Circle is far better). The Stax headphones had a metallic tinge to them that I could not get over. But they did sound good, perhaps the most detailed of all of my headphone amps. Someday I may try them again. BTW I've never liked the Headroom amps.
BTW what is your source for the headphone system? Headphone? If it's your CD player, headphones can be very revealing and it may be your source that is disappointing you.
.....BTW what is your source for the headphone system? Headphone? If it's your CD player, headphones can be very revealing and it may be your source that is disappointing you.....
LOL....no I don't think so. I listen primarily to vinyl....and it's a "Good one". My CD player set me back $39....I bought two of them!
Tom B.
I thought so, but from your system it looked like the CD players were connected to the headphone system.
What, did the SO ask you to turn it down?
There are several aftermarket cables for the HD600s (and 650s). I have the Stefan AudioArt cables, but there are a few more. It definitely improved on the stock cables, plus they are IMO easier to manage. the stock cables tended to get tangled.
Also check out Headfi.org in case you've missed it.
I have the Cardas option as my stock cables. Money very well spent.
Tom B.
Stax Omega II with Headamp Kevin Gilmore Blue Hawaii SE
Now there's a headamp!! I went to their site, where I can use a CREDIT card....shheesh....I just spent the last of the funds in my PayPal account. No more buying stuff from private parties.
Anyway...$1795 is what I call reasonable for a 25 lb head amp sporting 4 valves. It's just unfortunate that I cannot afford both the amp AND the Stax headphones. Thank's for the great link.
Tom B.
Unfortunately, Justin doesn't make that amp (Blue Hawaii) anymore,.. sort of. He has a limited addition coming out later this year that's over $4K.
Fortunately, you can find the plans for building one over on Headwize in the library. It was designed by Kevin Gilmore and like all his amps, the schematics are free. I'm planning on building one this summer. Just the parts (before the Mullard el34's) will set you back over a grand.
The "BEST" headphone rig I ever heard was the one that FrankC (hey Frank how's it hangin'?) mentioned in his post,.. the $20K amp was a SinglePower ES-2 (pretty much a one off), the headphones were Sennheisser HE90's (discontinued) and the source, my Technics RS1500 with the Tape Project reel to reel (1/2 track, 15ips).
BTW If you're a speaker guy like me, but you "really" want to learn about headphones,.. don't get discouraged by just a few visits to headfi. If you knew about one speaker and showed up on AA for the first time, you wouldn't know where to look for "what?" either.
If you want to see pictures of a meet that FrankC (his is the beautiful DIY 3 chassis, lacewood clad amp with the mercury vapor rectifiers) and myself attended check out the link.
- http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f45/mayberrys-trippin-balls-fairfax-ca-cross-coastal-meet-291921/index4.html (Open in New Window)
Wow....thats' mind boggling! So many amps....so many headphones.....mostly dynamic ones. I only saw two Stax combos. I was a bit confused though. I know Frank and his home. The meet was held somewhere else....where??
The whole thing has got me down. I'm sorta broke. I also listen exclusively to the most demanding of music........classical. For the first time last night I pulled out some of my stereophonic blockbusters and present set-up sounded OK. I could actual hear some mid-frequency information rather than the usual mud.
I might get the Bottlehead w/Iron upgrade for the present. I suspect it would be an improvement, but for what I've seen, I'm going to need to shell out as much $$$$ as I did on my vinyl rig. Thats' going to a few years.
Thanks again for those great pics and I'm going to have to visit Frank and see what his stuff sounds like.
Tom B.
Actually, most of the current production electrostat's were there plus some of the most favored old ones.
Senheisser HE90, HE60
Stax Omega 2, Omega 2 mkll, 4070, Lambda Pro, 404
HE 1.2, 1.3
I'm on the hunt for an esl headphone system so it was great for me.
Oh, the meet was held in Fairfax (Marin).
And money wise, that's a very cool thing about headphones, if you buy them used, most of the contenders are under $400 each and if you keep them in good shape, you can resell them for what you paid for em.
Thanks for filling me on the meet. The amps were incredible, but I think I might go the Elusive disc offer for the 404 and the 006 dual tube amp for $1500. I'm really trying to keep my cash, so using a credit card is crucial. Can't use audiogon....no more cash in my account.....which means buying a new set-up.
I'm buying the combo on faith. Remember, I listen to vinyl Classical music almost exclusively.
Tom B.
Nice! You won't be disappointed. One thing with stats, it takes a while for them to fully charge. When you get them, power them up a minimum of 4 hours before you do any critical listening. I can't remember if the 006 has a standby function but the amps it doesn't take a ton of watts to power. Lots of guys just leave them on during the weekends they're home, or turn them on when they get home (I do the same with my tube gear).
BTW You can get Stax gear for less if you order it from Japan, but the amp would be set to 100V 50 Hz. You'd have to get a transformer to convert it to 115V 60Hz which would offset the savings.
Actually, the KGBH SE is being built now in limited numbers. The cost is $4500.00. It will have a separate power supply and other improvements. I have had my order in since Sept. I think they are building 13, but may build a second round. Yeah, it does look nice. The new units are probably better looking than this.
Steve
RudiStor also makes some expensive amps for dynamic and electrostatics.
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: