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I needed to edit my 3 week old for sale listing on Agon to update the description. When I navigated to "my page" to make the changes, there was a new "enhancement".
Modify is no longer an option. Instead, there is a note that reads:
* Classifieds are edit-able until 24 hours after posting
That's right. It is impossible to add / delete photos, change the asked price, methods of payment, description, etc. If they are maliciously seeking to antagonize users, they could not do a better a job. Thanks, Audiogon! You're tops!
Follow Ups:
Hello, On a Sunday about two weeks ago, I placed an ad for an EMM Labs CDSA-SE cd player. On Monday, Audiogon pulled the ad. The email from Audiogon on that Monday, read: "We have removed your listing with credit to your account. At this time, this specific EMM Labs model may not be listed at Audiogon. Please check back in thirty days. Our apologies for the inconvenience." This specific one box cd player is new out this year. I'm not sure why they did it, but EMM Labs is an advertiser there. I currently have an ad up on ebay and Audio Asylum. Stan
I've heard the same about others trying to sell that product. Talk about compromised objectivity.
Brian Walsh
Looks like Audiogon changed there EVIL minds I am able to modify my ad this AM. Its the last day my ad runs so I don't know if thats why.
Nope. I was able to modify mine as well. I'm gonna guess that they caught all kinda flack from people.
JCarney
Why not post here for a week and if no success put on A Gon.I've sold a few high end pieces here.If we don't start posting here then A gon will continue their greedy ways.JD
> Hello,
>
> Frequent editing creates a major strain on Audiogon's systems. In order to
> improve server response time and provide a cleaner, more streamlined site
> for everyone, we have limited editing to the first twenty-four (24) hours
> after an ad's appearance on Audiogon.
>
> Thank you,
> Audiogon Staff
Isn't that different than what other people had been told?
I think they made the change to prevent a completely new listing being posted within the framework of an old ad.
> Frequent editing creates a major strain on Audiogon's systems.
That's the biggest crock I've heard in a long time.
Brian Walsh
Yep. Utter BS. Even if it were true (which means their software is HORRIBLY written), pony up and get better hardware to satisfy your customers. It's not like they're strapped for cash. Greedy bastards :(
After dorking around posting for sale ads here at AA and at a couple other "audiophile" places & receiving tons of spam, scam offers, and tire kickers - I posted my pair of Apogee Stages on Craigslist & got a firm offer (and later cash in hand) from a solid buyer approximately 15 minutes after posting the ad.
Probably not the best place to look when buying, but after selling a Porsche and a pair of Apogees in the same month on Craigslist - I'm pretty much a fan.
sold 2 motorcycles and a honda mower on craigslist this year for free;) but in my area not to good for posting audio kit
just use AA classifieds. we all gotta stop using audiogon, otherwise bitching about them isn't going to change...
Kinda like the post in the thread below, about the record industry's terminal stupidity for the past several years: "Any business strategy that relies on SUEING your customers in bound to fail..." And any 'enhancement' that pisses off yer customers is also...not..an 'enhancement'. Surely some computer geek knows a better way to prevent what they're trying to prevent. I didn't mind when they tripled the price of their ads. But this is going TOOO far!
Seems like you should be able to edit almost everything EXCEPT the title, which is what most people would want/need to change if they were doing the scam route...which is what A-Gon is seemingly trying to prevent with this change.
Also...I think 3 days or a week etc. from the initial posting would be a more reasonable time period for someone to bring errors etc. to your attention or ask questions, then answer to which you might want to include in your ad, so as to not have to answer them repeatedly.
If you could not change the TITLE, then Audiogon could keep a look out for people changing the TEXT of their ad or even have a "click here" button to report that kind of stuff.
Personally, I think the Asylum Classifieds would work MUCH BETTER if they had a search by date posted feature...to mimic A-Gon. We are all looking for good deals, and those usually dissapear quickly so older ads are not NEARLY as desirable or interesting unless you are looking for something specific.
I suspect they implemented this change because there have been a number of Audiogoners who have been using the same ad to sell multiple items during the 30 day period. What they do is buy a single ad, post something for sale, then re-do it for the next item when the first item sells. I watched one ad get changed 7 times in 30 days; each time it was edited it was selling a new item.
If you look at it from Audiogon's POV, that's a lot of revenue they are losing. Unfortunately, like many rules and laws that attempt to control illicit or unethical behavior, honest people are negatively impacted way out of proportion.
"I suspect they implemented this change because there have been a number of Audiogoners who have been using the same ad to sell multiple items during the 30 day period. What they do is buy a single ad, post something for sale, then re-do it for the next item when the first item sells. I watched one ad get changed 7 times in 30 days; each time it was edited it was selling a new item."
Sorry I got to disagree with you there.
When you pay for an ad, you have bought 30 days of ad space. If you sell the item or don't sell it, or whatever you do with it, it's still your space for 30 days.
By your logic, if your item sells the first day, you should get a refund of 29/30ths of your ad price, and you know that ain't happening.
This is just another example of the Audiogon greed.
> > Sorry I got to disagree with you there. < <What exactly are you disagreeing with? Or are you just being generally disagreeable?
> > By your logic, if your item sells the first day, you should get a refund of 29/30ths of your ad price < <
By my "logic?" Perhaps you could point out to me where exactly I made a statement that even remotely resembles anything like this?
"What exactly are you disagreeing with? Or are you just being generally disagreeable?"
You seem to be supporting Audiogon's policy of no edits after 24 hrs.
I feel that is wrong.
Clear nuff?
> > You seem to be supporting Audiogon's policy of no edits after 24 hrs.
I feel that is wrong. < <
The only "wrong" here is you.
Show me where I ever said I was supporting their policy, or STFU. Thanks.
Show me where I ever said I was supporting their policy, or STFU. Thanks>
Your above quote implies that to change the ad is unethical?
If so, that tells me you agree with the policy.
If that's not what you meant then I'm sorry...no need to get mad and throw a STFU at me.
> > Your above quote implies that to change the ad is unethical? < <
Obviously, Audiogon thinks it is.
> > If so, that tells me you agree with the policy. < <
Again - show me where I said that. You can't, because I didn't.
> > If that's not what you meant then I'm sorry...no need to get mad and throw a STFU at me. < <
If you keep telling me I said something I didn't say, and keep telling me I'm wrong about what you think I said, and keep telling me what my logic is regarding something I never said, what else do you expect me to do?
> > If that's not what you meant then I'm sorry...no need to get mad and throw a STFU at me. < <
> If you keep telling me I said something I didn't say, and keep telling me I'm wrong about what you think I said, and keep telling me what my logic is regarding something I never said, what else do you expect me to do? <
What do I expect you to do?
I expect you to realize we had a misunderstanding, act like a grown up, and move on.
> > What do I expect you to do?
I expect you to realize we had a misunderstanding, act like a grown up, and move on. < <"We?"
It was you who had the misunderstanding, not me. It was you who launched a personal attack as a result of that misunderstanding, not me. It was you who continued it, despite me telling you that your belief was incorrect.
When it finally dawned on you that you were in the wrong, you offered an obviously grudging, conditional, and altogether insincere apology. And now you're telling me to "act like a grown up."
Perhaps you ought to take your own advice. Admit your error like a man, and offer a real apology. That would be the "grown up" way to move on.
ALLRIGHT!
Let's get something straight!
Yes, I did not understand your post correctly, EXCUUUUUUUUUUSE ME! Shit happens.
However, when you tell me to STFU on the 1st reply who's on the attack you or me?
I can't believe I've even wasted this much time on this.
I'm done!
First reply? Man, you are just embarrassing yourself today. Since you are obviously very confused about what you did today, I'll point out that my first reply was me asking you what you were talking about when you launched your attack. Nowhere in that post did I suggest you STFU. I did afterwards when you refused to respond in kind; instead you continued to claim that I said something I didn't say.
I see that you still can't bring yourself to do the "grown up" thing, even though you tried to demand it of me to assuage your fragile ego. Instead, you've descended deeper into childishness.
Don't worry - I wasn't expecting you to act like a man, so I'm not at all surprised.
someone's a little on edge i see.
.
oops, sorry for the disrespect, that should be chief inspector clouseau.
I guess someone didn't get any last night.
benie, if you want to play, you're going to have to come up with something better than that :-)
nt
.
"Unfortunately, like many rules and laws that attempt to control illicit or unethical behavior, honest people are negatively impacted way out of proportion."
Sorry, this quote is the one I was trying to post.
Wish we could edit
Todd,
You can edit now. Rod implemented the new changes recently. Click on the "edit" link below your post (sandwiched between "Alert Moderator" and "Delete").
I generally avoid confrontation with racerguy. He's an unpleasant fellow.
Poor Len_ - you're obviously still upset that I rejected your advances.
to simply raise the price to a "reasonable" level and leave things alone? By driving their price per item up so high and getting greedy, they have have actually worsened the situation and reduced the amount of traffic flow / value of a listing on their website. As such, rather than someone listing a number of items and paying a reasonable fee for each listing, which makes Audiogon look like it has a lot to offer, they encourage people to find new ways NOT to pay for listings and reduce what is offered.
In effect, their lack of proper management and poor business decisions is not only hurting their income and long term viability, but also lowering the value of the product that they offer. When you hurt your daily income by alienating current customers and take further steps to alienate potential clients, the long term forecast for such a business is rather cloudy. In this specific case, it doesn't look good for sunshine anytime soon.
Obviously, this is just my opinion. I voiced these same feelings many times quite publicly many years ago on the Agon forums. I saw how things were going there and didn't like it, so i took a stance. While i am but one person, i wish that others would have realized what was going on sooner and done something about it. While posting quite regularly there in the past, i've refrained from contributing ANYTHING to that site for many months now.
As it is, i've mentioned the need for a replacement for Agon many, many times here on AA and even encouraged Rod / The Bored to step up to the plate. Not only could the classifieds become a source of revenue for the Asylum, which would help to fund itself, but it could also be a great boon to the audiophile community on the whole. Finding a reliable place to do business with people that you know and trust would be a great boon to not only the audiophile community on the whole, but might also take steps to secure AA's financial security too. If done properly, and lessons learned from other's mistakes are applied, there's no reason that AA couldn't become the premeir site for buying / selling audio gear. Sean
>
They raised their prices 300% in the last three years. This year, some selected members (including your's truly) are now being charged $15 per ad. All the while, they've disabled many features (html, photo limit, editing rights, negative feedback, et al).
Don't try to make any sense of what Audiogon's management does. It will drive you to the nut house.
rat bastards
" If done properly, and lessons learned from other's mistakes are applied, there's no reason that AA couldn't become the premeir site for buying / selling audio gear. Sean"
I agree 100% but have a "real" feedback, not the BS feedback audiogon now has. There is a very good membership base here.
There is a saying "Build it and they will come"
We are already here, so built it!!
I've bi----- about agon also,my point everybody reading the asylem take a 10 mn break and look at the classified ads and dont forget to start using if you want to buy or sell,ready set go the classified.
Aren't these two sites related ownership-wise?
Don't even joke about something like that!!!!
That's a huge defect. I thought that was a most useful thing.
Regards,
Geoff
to make sure the change is not some kind of temporary system admin. Nope, the change is the same as last night, and appears permanent.
Status of item can still be toggled (for sale, pending, sold)
Options changed from: (view, modify, cancel, help) to eliminate modify option after 24 hours from posting.
So it is impossible to raise or lower your price, add additional pics, new information like unit serial numbers, expected delays in communications resulting from travel plans, etc. Plan ahead guys! If you want to edit now, just buy another ad and cancel your current ad!
There are benevolent monopolists (remember Ma Bell AT&T pre-modified final judgement order), and then there are super stars like Agon who really know how to do you right!
The sad pathetic part is that Agon is not very sigificant as a for-profit business. Annual revenue is estimated around $1M, plus or minus. Assume 7000 ads per month, $6 per ad, is $420K / year. Double or triple that figure to take in to account commercial sponsors. The actual number may be a little more or a little less. Net sales are less depending on efficiency of operations. The point is that Agon is a piss-ant little insignificant business. This callous behavior towards customers is astoundingly stupid from a small company in a cottage industry - no make that hobby - like ours.
Tetsuo quote,"The sad pathetic part is that Agon is not very sigificant as a for-profit business. Annual revenue is estimated around $1M, plus or minus. Assume 7000 ads per month, $6 per ad, is $420K / year. Double or triple that figure to take in to account commercial sponsors. The actual number may be a little more or a little less. Net sales are less depending on efficiency of operations. The point is that Agon is a piss-ant little insignificant business. This callous behavior towards customers is astoundingly stupid from a small company in a cottage industry - no make that hobby - like ours".....
I'd love to have that piss ant business.With your figures they are probably making $100K to 150K a year..Guess you must make a lot of money...
I disagree,
A'Gon is a great small business. It has very low overhead and can be run from any location. I would rather own and manage A'Gon than work any 9 to 5 job.
Most every change they have done has a good sound business reason behind it.
Peter
I agree. But I guess we're pretty much alone over here. :-)
$6 to target between 500 and 1000 people with $$$ interested in what your selling.
Write as long or short an ad as you want.
Pictures.
Links to accurate shipping costs.
Immediate posting and easy, flexible payment.
I'd rather not have to pay another $6 to change the price, tho', and why can't one link to the "more information" anymore.
Other than these last 2 quibbles, what's not to like?
Beats me. In my last Audiogon transaction I sold a component at my asking price in 15 minutes.
This is what I was sent after I emailed them about the matter. I was trying to reduce the price on an add that I have. I'm thinkin I'm pretty much done with them as well.
Hello,
You can still mark the ad "Sale Pending" and "SOLD" as before by changing the Status.
If you want to lower your price we find that it is better to relist with the new price and get another round of exposure on the New Today page.
Unfortunately this change was necessitated by abuse of the system by users who would modify their ads after the first one sells and advertise another one in the same listing.
Thank you,
Dave
Site Administrator
JCarney
Translated, the text in the subject line means... "We (AudiogoN) get another six bucks everytime you relist!"
I tried to lower a price yesterday and ran into this new "feature". Not even eBay would be so stupid as to not allow you to lower your price.
Gerry
> Translated, the text in the subject line means... "We (AudiogoN) get another six bucks everytime you relist!"
Or another fifteen if you're a retailer like me.
It's patently absurd. Tell them where to put their six bucks, and boycott Audiogon. Until people stand up for what's fair and use other sites for selling, Audiogon's obnoxious practices will continue.
AudioXsell.com looks to be the most viable choice, and AudioAsylum is pretty good, too.
Brian Walsh
I believe the reason for this is to prevent sellers from selling something in the first week, and then completely changing the ad to a different item for the next week, and then changing it again the following week after the second item has sold, etc, etc, etc.
I think Audiogon has adopted this one day limit to editing, so as to prevent this from happening, and yet still provide a limited amount of time to edit obvious errors in the initial ad.
It sounds somewhat fair to me.
However, I agree with you that you should be allowed to lower your price in the same ad, rather than having to take out another ad.
Perhaps you could (somehow) contact Audiogon and discuss this with them.
My biggest beef with Audiogon is the almost total lack of communications they have with their members. They rarely reply to emails, and almost never explain their actions. Personally, I think they should either start a thread on Audiogon whenever they make one of their unannounced decisions/changes to their rules/policies, or appoint a "point man" to explain their actions here on Audio Asylum. This would at least allow us the opportunity to discuss what they are doing, and point out the problems with it.
Anyway, that is my two cents worth.
Just who are the people behind AGON? They seem shrouded in mystery. We all know who runs the Asylum.
The Asylum is a very popular place and I think Rod M should consider upgrading the Classifieds similar to Agon. Money to be made there.
a
There already is, but they aren't as well knownhttp://www.audioxsell.com/ ( looks to be something worth checking into. Could be the next Audiogon. Nice presentation and appearance overall. I like it. )
http://www.audioshopper.com/ ( an old stand-by that nobody really takes advantage of anymore. Have found and purchased several items here, but never sold anything, even though i've listed there many times. In every case, identical listings on Agon, Audioshopper and Audioweb had Audiogon working the best. This was prior to AA's classifieds ever being offered. )
http://www.audiocircle.com/ ( highly frequented site for forums, not so much for sales. You can see people buying and selling the fad of the month i.e. what is "hot" in the specific forums there and what has cooled off. )
http://www.audioweb.com/ ( much like audioshopper i.e. well established but not really used. LOADED with scam artists. Never sold anything even though i've listed there many times )
And of course we have the Asylum Classifieds:
http://java.audioasylum.com/ca/index.jtp
For some reason, the AA Classifieds just doesn't seem to draw my attention. I guess that there is something to be said for presentation and appearance when it comes to marketing.
Hope this helps. If you are aware of other high traffic websites for buying / selling USED audio gear, please feel free to add the above list. It may make for a good point of reference in the archives when someone is searching for alternatives to Audiogon. Sean
>
a
> http://www.audioxsell.com/ ( looks to be something worth checking into. Could be the next Audiogon. Nice presentation and appearance overall. I like it. )I agree. Strongly recommmended. The guys running the site seem sincerely interested in doing the right thing, having seen how Audiogon has not been receptive to comments and suggestions. AudioXsell gets my vote!
> http://www.audioshopper.com/ ( an old stand-by that nobody really takes advantage of anymore. Have found and purchased several items here, but never sold anything, even though i've listed there many times. In every case, identical listings on Agon, Audioshopper and Audioweb had Audiogon working the best. This was prior to AA's classifieds ever being offered. )
I agree, a lost cause probably not worth pursuing.
> http://www.audiocircle.com/ ( highly frequented site for forums, not so much for sales. You can see people buying and selling the fad of the month i.e. what is "hot" in the specific forums there and what has cooled off. )
Fad of the month, indeed. Participants are enthusiastic about what they know about and own, which mainly includes manufacturers and modifiers with their own forums on that site. Heavily oriented toward lower priced gear.
> http://www.audioweb.com/ ( much like audioshopper i.e. well established but not really used. LOADED with scam artists. Never sold anything even though i've listed there many times )
A waste of time.
> And of course we have the Asylum Classifieds:
http://java.audioasylum.com/ca/index.jtp
For some reason, the AA Classifieds just doesn't seem to draw my attention. I guess that there is something to be said for presentation and appearance when it comes to marketing.I also recommend AA Classifieds. A prettier appearance would draw more people in, along with a feedback system which could really help, and I'll be delighted to support such efforts.
Audiogon continues to piss people off. From dealing with them I am completely convinced they are arrogant, greedy, and clueless at the same time. Bottom line, I don't trust them. I congratulate Stereophile for severing their ties with Audiogon, no longer using them for online classifieds. A smart move on their part, based upon receiving a lot of complaints. As far as I'm concerned Audiogon has fallen out of favor with many, has had its heyday and will be history if the trend continues. I don't see that changing, so I say good riddance.
Brian Walsh
Canuck Audio Mart is based in Canada, a good site from the crazy canucks.
I also strongly recommend AA Classifieds. I think wth a face lift and a feedback system it can go far.
I think if a real effort is made in AA Classifieds it can grow in leaps and bounds.
There is already a huge number of members here with a taste for something better than AUDIOGON!!!
All over the internet, everyone is getting fedup with audiogon.
but none seems to leave any I have sold a few items here
I was not aware or this and i have bought a few items from there.
Just goes to show an upgrade of the classifieds in order.
I told you guys I was going to look into doing this this summer, and I still am. I too have had it, however if I do it and you all still go there, then you deserve what you all get :^ )
As work begins on it I'll ask for some input here as well. Thanks.
Oh, and don't nobody give me crap about the name, I like it, so it stays :^ ) Besides, it's either that or Kraphaus. I'm not naming it audio-something....
It's all about the music...
.... I don’t know what type of scale you envisage but when you get to the business plan stage let me know if you’re looking for investors/partners.
Smile
Sox
Although I can't offer any technical advice (or any advice for that matter), if/when it's up and running I would be more than happy join-up. I've got some gear I have thinking of selling, and although I have had very good luck listing things here on AA I would love to see some more competition for A'gon.
Ergo grex, ergo sum.
Great "audiophile" headphones!
this has been slowly happening, so the changes would go down easier....the 'planted' threads which keep the sponsers 'in the conversations' are now painfully obvious...zu, zen, wilson, schmilson.....no links allowed except to sponsers, etc. it is now nothing more that the HSN of audio.
Run by a bunch of neocons I'm sure! Hey let's maximize profits and turn the screws on'em... what can we take away from users today, let's see...
audiogons sunk to new lows this year I used to love the site spent arround $6000 on adds over the years.Now they charge me $15 an add.For awhile only let you post 3 pics last I posted it was 6 again hope this new feature will go the same way.If they had compition they would dry up but the gon knows they got you by the balls and thats how they run the site.I hardly post adds dont check forums much dont buy from the gon anymore sure others are doing the same [but audiogon cares not] maybe in a few years they will see the error in there ways....chasing long term cash cows like me away cant be doing them any good.So I end with a hardy piss off audiogon hope you rot
But judging by their history, they probably still wouldn't listen to their customers. I have a hard time thinking of another business who has made a more nonsensical, aggravating string of decisions in so short a time span.A big FU to Audiogon's management. My fish could do a better job.
I don't know what percentage of those who do business with Audiogon are Inmates in the Asylum, but it might be significant. If a substantial number of Inmates would agree on a week in which they would do no business with Audiogon, that might garner some attention and concern.Be slapped around and bitch, or organize and stand tall? Inmates, show what you are made of!
RupeP.S. As in a posting above, you could partially satisfy your fix during the Up Yours Audiogon Week at http://www.audioxsell.com.
what species of fish?
Any dead specimen would do a better job.BTW, I'm a saltwater/reef enthusiasts if that was what you're asking :-)
Dog left overs...and I too am sure a fish would treat customers better
Same here, they have just gotten terrible lately. Ignoring emails from customers, removing threads, not posting replies to threads etc. Just a bunch of fricking bandits...
Another big F.U!!!!! to the scondrels at the gon, yours is coming.
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